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Modern Warfare 2 map removed due to religious faux pas

Monday, 8th October 2012 08:25 GMT By Dave Cook

A Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 map has been taken offline after gamers found Islamic text around a painting frame. The text was found within a bathroom in one of the map’s many rooms, which is frowned upon among the religion.

Kotaku reports that the Favela map was removed over the weekend after gamers flagged the painting frame, seen above. The dispute stems from holy Islamic texts being forbidden in bathrooms.

Gamers also recorded a video of the offending material.

Activision releases the following statement on the matter:

We apologize to anyone who found this image offensive. Please be assured we were unaware of this issue and that there was no intent to offend. We are working as quickly as possible to remove this image and any other similar ones we may find from our various game libraries.

We are urgently working to release a Title Update to remove the texture from Modern Warfare 3. We are also working to remove the texture from Modern Warfare 2 through a separate Title Update. Until the TU is ready, we have removed the Favella multiplayer map from online rotation.

Activision and our development studios are respectful of diverse cultures and religious beliefs, and sensitive to concerns raised by its loyal game players. We thank our fans for bringing this to our attention.

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138 Comments

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  1. Samuel

    Ugh… really?

    Also… someone only just found this now? In Modern Warfare 2? By looking really closely at a painting in a bathroom?

    What?

    #1 2 years ago
  2. Dave Cook

    @1 “Also… someone only just found this now? In Modern Warfare 2? By looking really closely at a painting in a bathroom?”

    Well…yes, I guess so. Otherwise we would have heard of this before now :)

    #2 2 years ago
  3. AHA-Lambda

    I’m sorry but that is just fucking ludicrous.

    #3 2 years ago
  4. OrbitMonkey

    Hi guys I’m your friendly, neighborhood, peace-loving Muslim & I think it’s kinda ridiculous the image portrayed of us in the West. We’re really rather ration…

    What? A MP map containing religious text! IN A BATHROOM!!

    JJJJIIIIIIIHHHHHHHHAAAAAADDDDDDD!!!!

    #4 2 years ago
  5. misieque

    Who would have guessed? Muslims? No way! You could just shoot Jesus in the face, but thats ok, because no one will bomb you for that.

    #5 2 years ago
  6. G1GAHURTZ

    This is excellent, actually.

    The texture in question has actually been used since CoD4. I sctually emailed Activision when I spotted and asked them to remove it myself, back in 2007/2008 when I originally spotted it.

    So well done Activision for finally doing something about it.

    ——

    To the idiots above…

    Shut up, fools. You obviously hold absolutely NOTHING sacred in your lives, so could never understand this basic human principle.

    Go get a clue.

    #6 2 years ago
  7. Christopher Jack

    Damn extremists. I don’t complain when English writing is used in an fps.

    @6, The only things I consider sacred are my family, friends & my self. I couldn’t give less of a fuck about writing regardless of where it comes from. Could come from one of the various bibles & I wouldn’t blink an eye.

    #7 2 years ago
  8. OrbitMonkey

    Getting all touchy over our fairy tales… Yep, basic human principle right there ;-)

    #8 2 years ago
  9. KrazyKraut

    “Shut up, fools. You obviously hold absolutely NOTHING sacred in your lives, so could never understand this basic human principle.”

    Without attacking you for your believes (accepting and tolerating it 100%!!), “this basic human principle” is a negative point. Its in human nature, but when ppl thinking outside the box, understanding far more, than more ppl would ever do, they called fools. That was not nice, you are a fool like the ppl above you. (not for your believes, but for your attack of the other persons)

    #9 2 years ago
  10. G1GAHURTZ

    @7:

    You’re not a Christian, are you, so what does that example have to do with anything at all?

    @8:

    Prove it’s a fairy tale.

    @9:

    I have no idea what you just said.

    #10 2 years ago
  11. KrazyKraut

    @10
    Talked about limited imagination and that basic human principles are too..yes too basic (and kinda primitive).

    #11 2 years ago
  12. OrbitMonkey

    @10, Prove it’s not *never-ending argument* :-P

    #12 2 years ago
  13. G1GAHURTZ

    You’re completely losing me here, KK.

    Are you trying to tell me that basic human principles, such as understanding the difference between right and wrong/standing up for justice/protecting the innocent/defending what you hold to be sacred/etc, etc are too primitive for modern man?

    Is that your point?

    #13 2 years ago
  14. KrazyKraut

    No, but let them have their own opinion. The debate will never stop (RL and here) when someone always need to comment other ppl opinion or attack each other.

    #14 2 years ago
  15. G1GAHURTZ

    @12:

    Logic fail.

    You’re the only one making any definite claims. I don’t need to bring any proof.

    I’ll tell you that this is what I believe. It’s my faith. There’s nothing compelling you or anyone else to believe it, one bit.

    You’re telling me that it’s 100% false, guaranteed.

    That it is a “fairy tale”.

    So without proof, your “fairy tales” comment is stupid and meaningless.

    #15 2 years ago
  16. Da Man

    Have you read Master and Margarita, OrbitMonkey?

    .. Nah, you played Final Fantasy.

    #16 2 years ago
  17. G1GAHURTZ

    @KK:

    Let them have their opinion?

    I have no problem with that. Anyone is entitled to their opinion, but comments like #4 and #5?

    Do me a favour.

    Labeling Muslims as terrorists because of this story is complete ignorance.

    All the guy ever threatened to do was promote a boycott of IW games.

    Where are the bombs? Where is the jihad?

    Pure ignorance.

    CoD is actually one of the biggest games in the Middle East. This guy (who has 61k subscribers) made a simple request, and IW/Acti thought about their wallets.

    There’s no terrorism involved.

    So yeah. To me, the people who wrote those comments are ignorant fools, and they deserve to be told as much.

    It’s nothing to do with any rational opinion that they didn’t express.

    #17 2 years ago
  18. strikkebil

    killing people/playing war simulator – ok
    picture in bathroom – oh hell now!

    #18 2 years ago
  19. freedoms_stain

    @15, lol theist “prove it” logical fallacy.

    Theism is an idea, there is no tangible proof for it, therefore the burden of proof is on theists, no one else.

    #19 2 years ago
  20. absolutezero

    Whats the problem here?

    No honestly what exactly is the problem? Its obviously been modelled after something in real life and just been used as a prop. Why is this offensive??

    Its a picture frame in a video game.

    They’ve taken down an entire map, from an old video game because there was a picture frame with some writing on it. It might be offensive. So? People getting shot in the face is offensive aswell but its not going to get taken out either.

    #20 2 years ago
  21. KrazyKraut

    @Giga
    The most question, that really bothers me is, why they think so? Does this make you sometimes sad or just angry?

    #21 2 years ago
  22. G1GAHURTZ

    @freedoms:

    Why are you failing to understand a basic concept?

    I say I believe.

    If you knew anything about the major religions, you would see that the main point of life is that it is a test.

    A test where the criteria for passing is belief in the unseen.

    You’ve completely failed to understand this basic point if you think that as theists, we have to prove anything.

    Our belief is that this first life is a test to see if we believe in something that we cannot prove.

    The proof has been hidden from us.

    But if we believe, and follow the prophets and messengers, and stay away from what has been forbidden to us, all without definite knowledge, then we will be successful.

    That’s the whole point.

    What would be the point in having a test where the answer is right there in front of us?

    It would be a complete waste of time.

    So like I said.

    I believe. In my inner most soul, it’s the unshakable truth. Based on my belief in what I can’t see and can’t prove to you.

    Your claim is that my belief is wrong.

    So go ahead.

    Prove it.

    #22 2 years ago
  23. OrbitMonkey

    @16, Have you ever thought for yourself?

    Nah you believe in closed systems.

    #23 2 years ago
  24. OrbitMonkey

    @22, like I said, never ending argument. Closed loop logic. To even have proof defeats the purpose of faith, therefore no proof required.

    And if you did have proof, they wouldn’t believe it. Prolly cuz it’s all part of the “test” :-D

    Been that way for thousands of years, ever since man looked at the sun and thought, “ooh big shiney warm thing, how can I make you my friend?”.

    Only the names we give the unexplainable have changed.

    #24 2 years ago
  25. G1GAHURTZ

    @KK:

    Why do they think so?

    I have no idea.

    What if I said that all Jews were greedy misers who leech off of the masses and try to become government puppet masters?

    What would you say then?

    That it’s just an opinion?

    How would that idea go down in Germany?

    People say that Muslims don’t speak out against terrorism, but it’s complete nonsense, because whenever we do, we’re either too sensitive or it’s not enough.

    I don’t feel sad or angry. I just pity these people.

    #25 2 years ago
  26. Christopher Jack

    The problem with religion is it’s entirely based on faith over a few books & the words of people who were attention seekers. Now I’m not attacking your faith, believe what you want, however YOUR faith shouldn’t be a negative influence to other peoples’ lives- even if it’s something as puny or irrelevant as removing some text from a video game. It’s about time all religions accept that others want nothing to do with their beliefs & shouldn’t be censored because of it.

    #26 2 years ago
  27. Da Man

    #23

    Yes I did, ever since I got my first smartphone…

    Which is why I felt like recommending a mundane, accessible example like that to someone who comes across as terribly uneducated.

    #27 2 years ago
  28. Fin

    No religion in my VG247 pls thx.

    #28 2 years ago
  29. G1GAHURTZ

    To even have proof defeats the purpose of faith, therefore no proof required.

    What are you talking about?

    How is that a never ending argument?

    It seemed to have had a definite ending, the way you wrote it.

    #29 2 years ago
  30. YoungZer0

    @6: Please tell me you’re joking. PLEASE, for the love of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

    @1: Actually it’s in Modern Warfare 3, article says it. I think Dave made a mistake there.

    #30 2 years ago
  31. G1GAHURTZ

    @26:

    How about this…

    They shouldn’t have put my religious texts in their game in the first place.

    How does that ruffle your feathers?

    It’s kind of ironic that a bunch of CoD haters have developed such strong feelings about a 3 year old game, all of a sudden.

    @30:

    Please tell me you’re serious! PLEASE!!

    #31 2 years ago
  32. Christopher Jack

    @30 :)

    #32 2 years ago
  33. OrbitMonkey

    @29, It’s a never ending argument in general GIGA geez. Atheists/theists have been arguing it over since before the Ancient Greeks.

    #33 2 years ago
  34. G1GAHURTZ

    @33:

    Humour me.

    Explain to me exactly why it’s never ending.

    #34 2 years ago
  35. Da Man

    #31 You’ve won the internet.

    #35 2 years ago
  36. KrazyKraut

    Why did play CoD so long, when u wrote them a mail and they ignored your requests and gave a fuck about your believes and pleadings?

    #36 2 years ago
  37. YoungZer0

    @31: Aren’t you the Call of Duty lover here? Why do you continue to buy the game that offend you so much? If a game would insult my Spaghetti Monster, i wouldn’t buy it.

    #37 2 years ago
  38. OrbitMonkey

    @34. Ite never-ending because neither side can definitely prove their point can they. You can’t prove their is a god, only your belief in said deity.

    An atheist can’t really prove their isn’t some god like deity actually sitting in the clouds watching its favorite soap, only their disbelief in the religion.

    But of course this doesn’t stop both sides trying to prove their right with books & philosophy, rational thought & science etc.

    Hence never ending. Theirs prolly been more books on the subject than even Da Man could google!!

    #38 2 years ago
  39. Da Man

    I have that one sitting on my bookshelf, first read it when I was 15.

    But please do keep going.

    said deity.
    Stopped here.. Obv you were educated by a fellow vg247 commenter.

    #39 2 years ago
  40. G1GAHURTZ

    @DM:

    hehe…

    @KK:

    I don’t know if they ever even got my mail. I wrote it when CoD4 was pretty much the most popular game in the world. For all I knew, Acti got 10k emails a day, and mine got lost in some unchecked inbox, and is still there, unread, right now.

    I gave them the benefit of the doubt.

    Being an environment artist at the time, myself, I could see how it could happen, anyway.

    I just wanted wanted to free myself from having seen the mistake that they made (and it was obviously a mistake, based on the huge caution that they took with the rest of the game) and not having done anything about it.

    However, in CoD4, the texture was never in a toilet, or anything. I don’t actually remember noticing it in the toilet in Favela. Probably because that particular area is a high traffic hotspot, so you won’t be in there too long without getting killed.

    Yeah, I still played the game. I just tried to never go in the buildings where the texture was.

    It might seem strange to you, but this text is something very sacred to me.

    I was disappointed that it was left in MW2 when I saw it, but I just kept hoping that they’d realise what happened sooner or later, and fix it.

    And they have, so big respect to them for doing so.

    #40 2 years ago
  41. KrazyKraut

    @38
    Awesome idea…I thought about this too. But you always get offended by the other side:
    A muslim sees a sacred phrase in CoD, the map has go down and all non-Muslims cannot play this map.
    So the muslim cannot accept the phrase and the other ones cannot accept this too because the map is gone. This is such a small, unimportant example and now we see all how big the probs in the RL are.

    And seriously, how can both sides settle down? With accepting and tolerating. But this will never work.

    When I go to Saudi Arabia, I accept and tolerate, that Muslim wifes and husbands cant kiss or hold hands in public, but I, as non-Muslim, cannot too,okay no problem. And when Muslims come to other countries (non-Islamic states) they have to accept and tolerate the living ways of other folks. We would live in a World of Peace and Acceptance.

    What a beautiful utopian dream. But funny to debate about it, the topic is gonna more important from day to day, but instead of solving it, it gets hotter from day to day. But enough, I am out and should concentrate on this site, its connects us as gamer and should not separate us.

    #41 2 years ago
  42. KrazyKraut

    @40
    Okay, thank you for this answer/statement.

    #42 2 years ago
  43. Christopher Jack

    I just think Muslim sensitivity training shouldn’t be necessary so we don’t accidentally offend everyone. Everyone gets offended al the time, why should we treat you guys so special?

    #43 2 years ago
  44. G1GAHURTZ

    But of course this doesn’t stop both sides trying to prove their right with books & philosophy, rational thought & science etc.

    This is where you’re confusing yourself.

    You just said: To even have proof defeats the purpose of faith, therefore no proof required.

    So you’re not going to find me in a lab somewhere, trying to come up with the mathematical formula to prove absolutely anything to anyone.

    You admit that as a believer, I don’t need to bring any proof.

    So your “never ending argument” actually goes something like this:

    A: I believe in God.
    B: Prove that God exists!
    A: I don’t have to, that’s why it’s called a belief.
    B: Errrr… ok. Well I don’t believe, you’ve shown me no proof! Haha!
    A: That’s up to you, fella. There’s no compulsion on you to do anything.
    B: Ok…
    The end.

    Not quite never ending, then, is it?

    #44 2 years ago
  45. YoungZer0

    @43: Because they’d probably kill us if we don’t? Remember the Mohammed drawings?

    #45 2 years ago
  46. G1GAHURTZ

    ^ Idiot.

    @43:

    I think you’ll find that everyone deserves respect. That doesn’t mean that you respect everyone in exactly the same way, but everyone deserves to be respected.

    You can’t justify calling someone else’s mum a slag, just because you do it to your own mum all the time.

    If you want to offend someone, offend yourself and show respect to others.

    #46 2 years ago
  47. Christopher Jack

    @44, You say there’s no compulsion to do anything but then why are they removing a map?

    @46, I would call someone else’s mother a slag if she were one. I do agree that everybody should be respectful, but that doesn’t mean we should all tiptoe around acts of hypersensitivity. Especially by one of the most insensitive cultures in this day & age.

    #47 2 years ago
  48. MadFlavour

    Muslims need to develop a tougher skin, they get their knickers in a twister all too easily, and it’s exactly this type of pussyfooting around them that is the cause of it. Maybe if we mock them enough for their silly beliefs as we do to all the other silly religions they will toughen up and stop getting butthurt every time some clown trolls them.

    Also Favela was one of the best maps on MW2, taking it offline is stupid.

    #48 2 years ago
  49. MadFlavour

    It should be OK to discriminate against religious people. Not to abuse them or anything, but I think it’s reasonable to want to exclude them from positions of power etc. I’m sick of having to respect people’s beliefs when they’re clearly idiotic. Mormonism and Scientology lead me to this point as they’re relatively new and the obvious nonsense is a lot more traceable, but what I’ve took from them can just as easily be applied to all the major religions.

    #49 2 years ago
  50. Erthazus

    @DaMan,
    “Have you read Master and Margarita, OrbitMonkey?”

    I’m sure you never read it anyway because it’s “THE Master and Margarita”. Dumbass.

    #50 2 years ago
  51. OrbitMonkey

    @GIGA, Fine, if you want to believe that atheists & theists will not always. be arguing their seperate beliefs, that’s ok.

    Theirs no compulsion on you to do anything.

    #51 2 years ago
  52. viralshag

    @47, They’re not removing it because of something random that offends the religion. They’ve done something that was always offensive to the religion.

    There is no compulsion to do anything but if you are going to do something, then at least do it correctly.

    #52 2 years ago
  53. Da Man

    I don’t know how you address a person who calls you a dumbass and accuses of lies when you don’t put a ‘the’ in the name, whilst continously failing to form even the simplest english sentences.

    If you weren’t around for a three exciting years, I would’ve thought you’re a top comedian.

    Могу тебе фотку прислать.

    #53 2 years ago
  54. freedoms_stain

    @22, if that is truly your standpoint then you, your fellow followers and all the religious on the planet have to shut the fuck up and take it on the chin.

    If you’re going to hold a belief for which you refuse to offer proof then you cannot hold others to the standards of your religion. If your religion is defined as a personal belief in the unprovable, keep it personal. If there is holy text in a bathroom in a video game, accept it, if South Park or some European newspaper depicts Mohammed in a cartoon, accept it. I’m not singling out Muslims here, same goes for Christians, I don’t want to hear arguments for political policy or censorship in the media (entertainment or otherwise) based on Christian belief either.

    I’m sure someone will tell me I should respect other peoples beliefs, I do and you should respect mine. I don’t believe in anything, therefore I am not constrained by any of your or anyone else holy laws, for you to insist I cannot draw Mohammed is to force your beliefs upon me, beliefs which you have argued are personal and unprovable, so why should I be constrained by them and why should you care if I defy them? If your religion requires that you get upset about these things, perhaps it’s not as personal as you’re making out.

    In a free society this shouldn’t be a problem. Each to their own, no offence meant, none taken, I simply do not believe what you believe.

    #54 2 years ago
  55. YoungZer0

    @46: How about no? Islam and Christianity are both retarded religions and should be mocked whenever possible.

    I have no tolerance for intolerance.

    #55 2 years ago
  56. G1GAHURTZ

    @GIGA, Fine, if you want to believe that atheists & theists will not always. be arguing their seperate beliefs, that’s ok.

    That’s not what I said.

    Don’t get confused between one point of contention and every single possible point of contention.

    #56 2 years ago
  57. OrbitMonkey

    @52, Ew, your rational & logical approach to this offends me!

    Just out of interest, is it actually religious text? It is Activision & their handling of foreign language isn’t great.

    It could simple read “brush hair to look pretty” for all I know :-/

    #57 2 years ago
  58. OrbitMonkey

    @GIGA, But that’s what I’ve been saying all along… I wasn’t singling you out, I was pointing out the pointlessness of atheist/theists (in general) arguing their beliefs.

    #58 2 years ago
  59. viralshag

    @54 & 57, If a little more respect had been shown towards the religion in the first place, by not putting the text there at all, then you wouldn’t even have this problem.

    It seems like more effort to do something wrong than not doing it at all.

    #59 2 years ago
  60. G1GAHURTZ

    If your religion is defined as a personal belief in the unprovable, keep it personal.

    It’s not a personal belief. What are you talking about? This is a Religion that is practiced by about a quarter of the population of the entire planet.

    It’s anything but personal.

    I could just as easily turn this around on you.

    Your lack of faith is based on the unprovable. All the “scientific” formulas and theories in the world can’t prove that a Creator doesn’t exist. So shut up or jog on.

    Why are you atheists constantly trying to push your disbelief on others? Telling us we believe in fairy tales, and old men who live in the clouds? You can’t prove a thing, so keep it to yourself.

    for you to insist I cannot draw Mohammed is to force your beliefs upon me, beliefs which you have argued are personal and unprovable, so why should I be constrained by them and why should you care if I defy them?

    Who am I holding to the standards of my religion??

    Where did you get this nonsense from?

    What beliefs have I or anyone else ever forced on you?

    I think you’re being hypocritical here, anyway, but do correct me if I’m wrong…

    If I was to start saying that people with dwarfism should be executed at birth, or that homosexuals should be cured from psychological disorders, or that children who are victims of sexual abuse are the ones to blame for what happened to them, you’d consider me less than some unidentifiable, foul smelling mucus that you just scraped off your shoe.

    We don’t live in a free world where we can say what we like about anything that we want.

    Don’t be so naive.

    You’re confused, because you’ve failed to understand the difference between someone reacting to deliberate provocation, and someone forcing their views on others.

    If you intentionally try and offend someone, guess what, they’re going to get offended.

    They’re going to react.

    You can offend people in different ways. In some cultures, if you don’t belch out loud after your meal as a guest, people get offended (could just be an urban myth, but you get the point). In other cultures, belching out loud at a meal is the height of rudeness.

    You need to learn to appreciate that not everyone is bound by the rules of your own particular culture. Just because something is small in your eyes doesn’t mean that the rest of the world has to change themselves to accommodate you.

    Muslims don’t come into your house and tell you what you should or shouldn’t do. Nobody does that.

    Nobody constrains you or puts barriers up as to what you can and can’t do.

    But if you do something, knowing that you’re going to offend people, whether you can understand why they take offence to that action or not, hoping to get a reaction, don’t be surprised when people want to retaliate.

    #60 2 years ago
  61. OrbitMonkey

    The point here is what is it doing in Favela? That’s in South America right? Very weird.

    #61 2 years ago
  62. G1GAHURTZ

    @57:

    It says: “Indeed Allaah is beautiful and loves beauty

    It’s from a hadith:

    ‘Abdullaah ibn Mas’ood radiallaahu ‘anhu who related that Allaah’s Messenger sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam said: “Whoever has an atoms worth of kibr (pride) in his heart will not enter Paradise.” So a man said: What about a person who loves (i.e. takes pride in) wearing beautiful clothes and beautiful shoes? So he replied: “Indeed Allaah is beautiful and loves beauty. Kibr (pride) is to reject the truth, and to despise the people.

    That’s why someone may have originally had it as part of a real mirror/picture frame that an unsuspecting artist copied without knowing what it was.

    @61:

    It was probably just in a generic objects folder, and got placed there by a level builder.

    #62 2 years ago
  63. ManuOtaku

    I think people needs to realize this would offend/affect some people or group of people, in this case, muslims, they have as any group of people in this world,( and when i said a group of people it can be from a relegious point of view, or politics, believes, way of living, or in any idea/ believe/ likings that unites them), they have their set of believes and ideas ,therefore if they find something that goes against those believes or ideas, in an insulting way, they have the right to feel bad about it, and to let it know, like any person or group of people that are being insulted on their believes, and this is not calling for censorship, or for attacking freedonm or speach, or anything like that, is just because another human being is being affected by it, so with a nice bit of empathy we should understand that, we just need to think in what we hold dear to us, and if that is insulted in a way, we want that to stop or te let know the others the way we feel about it in order to stop it, so in the end we just need to put in everyone shoes/hats and have tolerance and empathy about it.

    #63 2 years ago
  64. Christopher Jack

    @54, Fully agreed.

    @60, How was he trying to push atheism on to you? & yes, religion should be personal & because it has been forced upon us non-believers, it dictates how we act & that’s just not on. We should all live by moral codes but they shouldn’t be dictated by a religion. Things like no murdering, raping or thievery are just common sense & we don’t need a religion to tell us that while things like woman can’t drive or leave their house without permission- that’s plain crazy, all humans are born equal.

    #64 2 years ago
  65. Fin

    GUYS CAN YOU ALL STFU ABOUT RELIGION THANKS

    #65 2 years ago
  66. OrbitMonkey

    Manu you old hippy!! :-P

    Anyway, as I understand it, the Quran cannot be stored in a bathroom, but this is a phrase from the Quran being used as decoration & I thought that was ok?

    So is it a case that no Islamic text should be shown in a bathroom?

    #66 2 years ago
  67. OrbitMonkey

    @65, Now now Fin, it’s like your gonna catch a sudden case of theism ;-)

    #67 2 years ago
  68. ManuOtaku

    #66 Orbit LOL…. well yes iam a kind of old hippy myself, is a part of my nature, yep you can call me that, that will fit , among other things as well ;)

    #68 2 years ago
  69. TheBlackHole

    @62 – I’m confused – how is it offensive to reproduce the text in a game, but not on a forum thread? Is it the writing? The language? Genuinely, I have no idea but I’m very curious.

    #69 2 years ago
  70. G1GAHURTZ

    How was he trying to push atheism on to you?

    I distinctly said “you atheists“. Meaning you as a group.

    Then I gave examples of trying to spread atheism through attempted mockery and ridicule from this very thread. I wasn’t singling him out in my example.

    because it has been forced upon us non-believers

    That’s complete nonsense.

    So growing up in the UK, are you going to tell me that atheism was forced on me? Being that I went to schools where I was taught that saying that we evolved from ape like creatures is an indisputable scientific fact, and that the government and media all supported this?

    I think you’ll find that there are next to no Biblical laws that you have to abide by, living in the West in this day and age.

    we don’t need a religion to tell us that while things like woman can’t drive

    Show me exactly where the religion of Islam says this.

    Take as long as you like…

    #70 2 years ago
  71. AmiralPatate

    I know a bunch of Muslims who wouldn’t be offended by that. I remember playing WWII games and gunning Yanks inside a bombarded church, and no one gave a fuck.
    It’s a random object in a random game. It’s supposed to be fun and nothing else.

    #71 2 years ago
  72. Da Man

    You can’t argue with a person who thinks ‘religion’ is about following cookie cutter ethics.

    That’s some fundamentally empty psyche.

    #72 2 years ago
  73. G1GAHURTZ

    @66,69:

    It’s not from the Qur’an, it’s a Hadith.

    The hadith mentions the name of God, so it’s obviously in written form on the frame.

    It’s just our belief that the name of God should never be mistreated or abused in any way, including shooting it off of a wall, where it’s going to fall into a toilet.

    Obviously.

    #73 2 years ago
  74. TheBlackHole

    @73

    So if they made it a static piece of scenery that didn’t fall off the wall it would be okay? Seems like that would be easier than removing it…

    #74 2 years ago
  75. G1GAHURTZ

    I think the best thing to do is simply replace the texture with a blank one.

    #75 2 years ago
  76. YoungZer0

    @75: I think it would be best if you simply ignored it.

    #76 2 years ago
  77. G1GAHURTZ

    ^ Do you even play the game?

    #77 2 years ago
  78. YoungZer0

    @77: Yes.

    And here’s something i do if i play a game that includes material that offends me:

    I stop playing it.

    #78 2 years ago
  79. TheBlackHole

    @75 …perhaps, but is it really necessary, according to the religion?

    #79 2 years ago
  80. G1GAHURTZ

    @78:

    You play MW2? What platform?

    #80 2 years ago
  81. G1GAHURTZ

    @79:

    They shouldn’t have used it in the first place. I worked for about 9 years as an environment artist, and I would never, ever have dreamt of putting a texture into a game if I didn’t know what it said.

    For this reason, precisely.

    For all I know, I could put some Malay text into a game that was racist, or some extreme sexual reference.

    #81 2 years ago
  82. YoungZer0

    @80: PC.

    #82 2 years ago
  83. Kuwabara

    Obviously the work of zionist jews. they already control hollywood and you see anti christian/ anti islam alot in movie references. They’ve also sadly hit the video games sector. This was intentional. Putting something about Muhammed being peaceful directly above a toilet seat! Who ever placed that pic there is saying bullshit to islam and mohammed being all about peace.

    #83 2 years ago
  84. ps3fanboy

    one thing we all have learned from this is that muslims are big cry babies. you would think trying get rid of all the hacking that have ruined mw2, was of the more important but noooooooo… the stupidity is just hilarious…

    #84 2 years ago
  85. G1GAHURTZ

    @82:

    You are a dirty, dirty little liar…

    http://www.vg247.com/forum/topic.php?id=6423#post-37028

    Now jog on.

    #85 2 years ago
  86. ps3fanboy

    A word to rioting Muslims…
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCXHPKhRCVg

    #86 2 years ago
  87. YoungZer0

    @86: I got it as a christmas present, just like Call of Duty 4.

    What’s your point anyway?

    You clearly are not a man of principles, you rather play and bitch, than to abandon the game insults your believe. I bet you also eat bacon and eggs for breakfast.

    Also note that the article mentions that the same texture has been used in Call of Duty MW 3, so either way, i’m right.

    #87 2 years ago
  88. G1GAHURTZ

    ^ Blah, blah, blah, carry on, liar.

    You don’t play the game. You don’t even like CoD, and haven’t even played it for the last 10 months, according to you, so this story has absolutely ZERO to do with you.

    You’re just an antagonistic, dirty little liar with nothing better to do than spread your faeces all over the internet.

    Go lie to someone else.

    Talking to idiots like you is a waste of my time.

    #88 2 years ago
  89. YoungZer0

    @89: According to Steam, the last time i played MW3 was january 26th 2012. If my math isn’t off, it’s less than 10 months, so i win again. :D

    And yes, i don’t like Call of Duty. It’s a series that really gotten boring. I think i didn’t even reach lvl 10 in MW3 before i stopped playing it.

    Still, without my help, you manage to make yourself look like a total fool.

    Why did you continue to play a game (Not one but three) that insults your believe, bacon-eater? Why can’t you answer a simple question like that?

    You’re one of those extremely pretentious religious people. The useless kind. You remember your religion when it suits you, you forget it when it doesn’t.

    #89 2 years ago
  90. Fin

    I’m just wondering, does anyone think this thread could exceed the 300 comments or whatever of the epic Nintendo one?

    #90 2 years ago
  91. YoungZer0

    @91: Impossible without the help of OlderGamer and monkeygourmet.

    #91 2 years ago
  92. OlderGamer

    So much ignorance to be found in one single word: Faith.

    Best to live and let live.

    Imo, Acti should have just removed the text or not removed the text. Taking down a whole map is extreme and, again, imo, wrong. Nope, don’t play CoD, don’t like it, and don’t care. But if this issue were to be in any other game, I would advise the same action.

    #92 2 years ago
  93. OlderGamer

    lol @ YoungZ as if on que I guess. I was reading the thread, basicly a no win situation.

    #93 2 years ago
  94. DrDamn

    @93
    That’s what they can do quickly and on their side without patching the game – so as to be seen to be doing something. A patch will remove it and the map will then return. They can’t turn around a patch overnight though.

    #94 2 years ago
  95. G1GAHURTZ

    ^ Exactly.

    #95 2 years ago
  96. freedoms_stain

    @60, Yeah, not sure these “provocations are actually provocations or if they are simply interpreted as such, and even if they are intended to provoke there are different ways to react. Not sure death threats are ever the best reaction.

    Perhaps I am being naive in believing that the rest of the world could use a good dose of objectivity in their thinking. Obviously the world you envision where everyone has to treat everybody else like they’re made of glass is a good future.

    Maybe people should take a good hard look over what they get offended about. I could easily have been offended that you chose to put words in my mouth and stereotype me as some sort of religion hating atheist, none of which I expressed in any way whatsoever in the course of this thread, instead I’m just going to point out that you were wrong to do that, because I haven’t discussed it with you and you’re leaping to conclusions based on the one single opinion I have expressed here and the fact that I do no agree with your theistic view of the world.

    As for “Personal Belief” possibly the wrong words, but it’s one you have chosen rather than one that has been forced on you, correct? Therefore I don’t think it’s too much to expect that you respect the choice of others not to believe and leave them to it even if you find anything they do offensive as per your beliefs. I believe that attempting to restrict media output based on your beliefs construes forcing it on others.

    #96 2 years ago
  97. Da Man

    Acti should have just removed the text or not removed the text. Taking down a whole map is extreme
    Tell me more about it. How do you ‘remove the text’?

    ‘Imo’, ignorant customers should refrain from useless advices. Just my two cents.

    #97 2 years ago
  98. zinc

    Why are people acting like this is an attack on freedom of speech? Activision have incorrectly misused an item. They have been politely informed of this. They have chosen to fix this.

    Their is no hidden Islamic agenda here, merely assumptions & misinformation.

    #98 2 years ago
  99. YoungZer0

    @98: How about you follow your own advice?

    #99 2 years ago
  100. Da Man

    ^Coming from a horny student who has nothing better to do other than spewing his angst ridden bs on the internet?

    I can’t follow that advice, since I’m not a customer.

    #100 2 years ago
  101. YoungZer0

    So you don’t pay for your videogames. Good to know.

    #101 2 years ago
  102. Da Man

    No, unfortunately I’m amongst people who create toys for horny scumbags such as you.

    #102 2 years ago
  103. YoungZer0

    Sorry, i don’t play shovelware.

    #103 2 years ago
  104. Da Man

    There’s nothing to be sorry about, last time I was involved in shovelware I was an angsty student.

    #104 2 years ago
  105. YoungZer0

    So you’re still involved in shovelware, got it.

    #105 2 years ago
  106. Da Man

    Language barrier again I see.

    #106 2 years ago
  107. Fin

    This thread is hilarious.

    #107 2 years ago
  108. G1GAHURTZ

    Not sure death threats are ever the best reaction.

    Rampaging, rioting, killing innocent people, causing unnecessary havoc and chaos are nothing to do with Islam. And while these things have, admittedly, been done by Muslims, what they were doing was wrong.

    I don’t disagree with their right to take offence, but without question, they reacted in the wrong way, and in the end, as your comments prove, it’s counter productive, because it’s the religion that comes off looking bad in the eyes of those who know little about it.

    Obviously the world you envision where everyone has to treat everybody else like they’re made of glass is a good future.

    It’s not quite that extreme. I just think people should just treat others as they would hope to be treated themselves. There’s no benefit, whatsoever, in mocking and ridiculing the beliefs of others, and it only serves as a clear attempt to undermine them.

    I could easily have been offended that you chose to put words in my mouth and stereotype me as some sort of religion hating atheist

    Well, if you’re not a religion hating atheist, then comments such as: “you, your fellow followers and all the religious on the planet have to shut the fuck up and take it on the chin.” aren’t really doing you any favours, now are they?

    I believe that attempting to restrict media output based on your beliefs construes forcing it on others.

    I’m not sure if I used the word personal before you did, but… as far as the point above goes, then I refer you to my previous point.

    What if the texture had been offensive to gays/ethnic minorities/disabled/etc?

    Would they then be forcing their desires on to you?

    #108 2 years ago
  109. G1GAHURTZ

    He’s given up trying to troll me, so he’s going for you, DM.

    #109 2 years ago
  110. YoungZer0

    @110: Still can’t answer that question, eh? :)

    #110 2 years ago
  111. RoboJesus

    Awww, poor, poor muslims chose to be offended once again. ;< And so the eternal butthurt contiunes…

    Seriously, is there ANYTHING in the world that they don't find offensive? I'm seriously starting to believe that there are some kind of muslim censorship basements in which every single piece of art or entertainment known to mankind is thoroughly analysed for the smallest details that they might find offensive. (it's obviously not true, just saying it in case it might cause another muslimbutthurt)

    Mr. G1GABUTTHURTZ, the few first comments were so obviously sarcastic that I don't see why your reaction was so drastic. Then you started to refer to those people as "idiots", and went on with "You obviously hold absolutely NOTHING sacred in your lives" (YEAH, THOSE F***ING KAFIRS!) – just WHAT THE F*CK? RELAX. And for such a small detail, why do you even care and make such a fuss about it? :l Who in the world goes around a map looking for these details anyway? I don't see christians being offended by a cross being placed in a more or less appropriate location, be it a computer game or a film. What if I find it offensive that you were offended by a 2×2 TEXTURE IN A GAME? Now you're making my game worse by making a map less detailed, LOOK WHAT HAVE YOU DONE, I'M SO OFFENDED I'M WRITING IT IN CAPS.

    #111 2 years ago
  112. zinc

    @112, So you created a account so you could troll a fellow poster who was/has been rational & reasonable regarded the representation of his faith?

    Obviously you fail to see the irony in your butt-hurted over-reaction to the offense his maturity has caused you.

    #112 2 years ago
  113. RoboJesus

    “Shut up, fools. You obviously hold absolutely NOTHING sacred in your lives”

    If it’s a rational, reasonable and mature way to react to sarcasm then I don’t want to live on this planet anymore.

    And I didn’t create an account just to comment on his post (since when a critical response = trolling? oO), my account is about ~1 year old.

    #113 2 years ago
  114. Christopher Jack

    @113, Wouldn’t say rational or reasonable, that’s not what faith is about.

    #114 2 years ago
  115. G1GAHURTZ

    ^ you found anything to back up your claim, yet?

    @zinc:

    Thank you. It’s better to just completely ignore the blatant trolls, though.

    #115 2 years ago
  116. Christopher Jack

    @116, I respect your faith, it’s just you growing up with it as a part of your life you feel different about the way you express it than us Westerners (although technically Australia is among the most Eastern countries, we’re still a mostly Western culture). It’s not the religion itself we have a problem with but the way Muslims express it. It’s mainly just a small minority making a bad name for the larger communities with things like a couple honour killings happening in Australia- it will hit national news & the Islamic culture & religion will be blamed which I don’t think is fair.

    #116 2 years ago
  117. G1GAHURTZ

    I am British. I grew up in England (and Germany). My family are a mixture of practicing and non-practicing Christians, and I became Muslim in 1998 after first learning about it in 1997.

    It’s mainly just a small minority making a bad name for the larger communities with things like a couple honour killings happening in Australia- it will hit national news & the Islamic culture & religion will be blamed which I don’t think is fair.

    You’re right it’s not fair. It’s the same media sensationalism that’s somehow managed to convince you that Islam says that women aren’t allowed to drive, when this is in fact, nothing to do with the religion. It’s a man made law in KSA (actually, it’s not even a law, but it’s enforced through a technicality) that has no explicit basis in the religion.

    You just have to be able to make the distinction between the actions of people who, in all likelihood, probably don’t even practice anywhere near properly anyway, and the Religion itself.

    #117 2 years ago
  118. zinc

    @114, I believe this thread started with assumptions being made, then jokes towards Islam, which were then refuted by GIGA, who then (quite calmly) replied to various piss-takes & illinformed accusations.

    Personally I cannot see the logic behind asking people to be reasonable, whilst insulting their beliefs. Which is all that has happened in this thread.

    Plus it seems only the atheists getting all worked up over this tbh. Activision have been politely asked to remove a faux pas. They have accepted this & acted accordingly.

    #118 2 years ago
  119. YoungZer0

    @119:

    Seriously? You don’t understand why people are getting worked up over this? Muslims get offended over bullshit, Activision apologises and makes the whole map UNAVAILABLE for EVERYONE. That wouldn’t have happened if those muslims would stop being so easily offended.

    Do you not understand that what’s holy to you, isn’t holy to us and you should respect too? If i burn a Quran or a Bible, how the fuck is that your problem? I didn’t burn YOUR Quran/Bible.

    Not to say Christians are any better, but you think they would’ve cried like little children and forced the developer to change something so FUCKING irrelevant?

    And again, if you have such a huge problem with that: DON’T PLAY IT. Don’t be such a huge hypocrite.

    #119 2 years ago
  120. zinc

    @120, Good grief child read your post.

    Burning religious text shouldn’t be considered offensive? Have you no respect for cultural attitudes that differ to your own?

    #120 2 years ago
  121. Christopher Jack

    @118, It’s the Islamic culture that forbids many woman’s right, not the religion, I am aware of this.

    #121 2 years ago
  122. YoungZer0

    @121: Where did i say it shouldn’t be considered offensive? He can be offended as much as he wants.

    Also: Culture =/= Religion

    @122: Wrong: http://quran.com/4/34

    The bible is no better. It states that you can stone your son to death if he’s a drunk/not to your satisfaction. Or your daughter, if she’s not a virgin before her wedding night.

    #122 2 years ago
  123. G1GAHURTZ

    ^ I might consider actually responding to this ignoramus if he wasn’t such a bare faced liar. But because of that fact, he gets none of my time.

    @122:

    Saudi (a single country of many, many Muslim countries) culture prevents women from driving.

    Islam is a religion, and doesn’t have a culture, by definition.

    #123 2 years ago
  124. Lounds

    As Ron B would say ‘Well that escalated quickly”

    #124 2 years ago
  125. Christopher Jack

    Arab, Muslim, Middle Eastern culture, whatever. Point being many of the oppressive rules are because of misinterpretations of their own religion. Not that the Quran actually teaches fairness of woman, it does mention some basic freedoms they should but not all are entitled to.

    #125 2 years ago
  126. YoungZer0

    @126: I don’t think so, to be honest. For example, if you read the old testament, it’s pretty clear who wrote it; old men who wanted more power. It’s a tool to enslave more than anything else. Nothing peaceful about that.

    But that’s the funny part about religious people, as soon as you quote from their book, they lose every chance to ‘win’ the argument. So they go into silent mode.

    Or Team Deathmatch, depending on how loyal they are to their belief.

    #126 2 years ago
  127. absolutezero

    This is a fucking horrible thread.

    In some Islamic cultures absolutions are said even before taking the Quran out. Is it not even slightly understandable that seeing the name of God in a toilet might fuck them off just a little bit?

    I had no idea that people who pass judgement so easily know so little about the faith itself. Pro-tip while it might be distantly related to Christianity, the teaching and holy scripture is completely different. While the Bible’s parables are easily understood the Quran is the exact opposite. No one person can issue statements on its intent without years of study. arguement and interpretation.

    #127 2 years ago
  128. zinc

    @127, Your demanding open-mindness & tolerance, but offering none. Your mind is set so discussion is moot & the perceved insult minor compared to the energy spent on protest…

    The rational atheist, exposing hypocrisy , especially his own.

    #128 2 years ago
  129. YoungZer0

    @129: Right, i don’t have any tolerance for intolerance. I won’t force any game developer to change their game so it suits my needs. I won’t burn any flags and i won’t kill any ambassadors. I will simply ignore it. Is that too much to ask? Ignore it, or don’t play it.

    You never see Buddhist act like oversensitive children. Now why is that?

    #129 2 years ago
  130. Sylrissa

    *shakes her head* All this fuss is being blown out of proportion I think, and I think the words of Steven Fry say it best to answer all this “I’m offended by that” nonsense
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqPcjm-X5GQ&feature=related

    #130 2 years ago
  131. zinc

    @130. Yeah Buddhist’s…

    http://geoconger.wordpress.com/2010/04/16/buddhist-riot-over-akon-concert-in-sri-lanka-the-church-of-england-newspaper-april-9-2010-p-8/

    P.S. If that text had read “New DmC is crap” I think you would be singing a different tune.

    #131 2 years ago
  132. zinc

    @131, Never underestimate the intolerance & entitlement felt by certain gamers :-/

    #132 2 years ago
  133. DSB

    It’s all very dumb though.

    There’s a vast majority of moderate muslims who don’t flip their shit over this sort of thing. They don’t like it, but they don’t raise hell and expect to be accomodated. Had Activision done nothing, they would consider them assholes, and go on with their lives.

    You have to be careful when the TV is showing you pictures of hundreds of people in protest around embassies, when you’re talking about a society comprised of 40 million people.

    Especially when those embassies are American, and you have regimes who may use that excuse to fuck their shit up a bit, or at least pay a few guys to show up and be angry.

    Beyond that, making the divide seem deeper than it truly is, is good TV. News are entertainment, a lot of those guys want ratings just as bad as Jersey Shore and American Idol.

    “A few hundred guys show up for protest in Cairo” isn’t as good a headline as “MIDDLE EAST ON FIRE”.

    Also Manchester Cathedral vs Resistance: Fall of Man. Also Family Research Council vs SWTOR. Monotheists are always going to demand special treatment for themselves. Being both the keepers of the ultimate truth, as well as followers of the very real and infallible God and all.

    #133 2 years ago
  134. Sylrissa

    @134 Agreed, every group has it’s rotten eggs and taring everyone with the same brush is stup4id in and off itself.
    This may be anecdotal, must I know some that live on my street and I haven’t had any problems with them in the 8 years I’ve lived in this house.

    #134 2 years ago
  135. YoungZer0

    @132: I wouldn’t give a single fuck if this text would say anything about DmC. That’s their thing. It’s not going to change what i think about DmC.

    That’s not even the problem here. The text in said game says nothing negative about the Islam, It says and i quote the-man-with-big-mouth-and-without-principles: “Indeed Allaah is beautiful and loves beauty”.

    That is so offensive.

    #135 2 years ago
  136. zinc

    @136, You are not getting it at all are you? Even after it has been fully explained ?

    Ok, here: Muslims beleve the Quran is the actual word of god. They believe all copies & text within should be treated with respect. Washing your hands before handling is a must. It is considered a insult to God to place the Quran in a bathroom. Hence the polite request for Activision to remove said item.

    Cue a week or two without Favella… A huge insult to all the CoD worshippers such as yourself. Apparently.

    #136 2 years ago
  137. G1GAHURTZ

    @125:

    Not that the Quran actually teaches fairness of woman, it does mention some basic freedoms they should but not all are entitled to.

    Such as…

    #137 2 years ago
  138. G1GAHURTZ

    But that’s the funny part about religious people, as soon as you quote from their book, they lose every chance to ‘win’ the argument. So they go into silent mode.

    Fool.

    I’ve stopped communicating with you, because you’re a liar.

    I can appreciate that you’re not able to fully understand this point, so I’m going to break it down to you.

    1. As a Muslim, honesty and integrity is at the apex of good human character, as far as I’m concerned.

    I can see that to you, lying is no biggie at all. You probably do it frequently, so doing it probably means absolutely nothing in your eyes. To you, lying is probably like drinking water. Goes down easy.

    When you blatantly LIED to try and ‘win’ on the internet, you lost 100% of the tiny piece of respect that I may have had in your case.

    To me, you’re now on the same level as Maxine Carr.

    Nothing more than a liar who needs no time being wasted on.

    2. This is one difference between people who follow a faith, and people who claim to set their own moral compass.

    When you have a clear set of rules as to what is and isn’t good human behaviour, there’s no possibility of lowering and lowering the standard until your moral compass becomes so corrupt that you lose the ability to differentiate between right and wrong.

    People of faith, the practicing ones who follow their religion from the original source, be they Muslim, Christian, Jew or whatever, don’t have a continually degenerating set of moral standards that can only ever end in an individual seeing absolutely nothing wrong in things such as lying, cheating, stealing, and much worse than that.

    I’m not saying that every non-religious person is like that, just as I’m not saying that every believer is 100% honest. Of course there are many non-believers who are known to be very honest.

    But you clearly aren’t among them.

    So what sort of example are you?

    Why should any person of faith accept the way that you’re trying to preach (that’s exactly what you’re doing) disbelief? To become a liar?

    To become some sort of base desire chasing individual whose lot in life is to drink himself into unconsciousness and lie like an animal, in his own vomit, by the side of the road at 4AM on a Saturday morning?

    You’re a liar who doesn’t even understand why lying is wrong. You can probably justify it to yourself like waving a fly away from about your head.

    Your own moral compass is corrupt, and in order to come to terms with that, you have to spend your time trying to spread your own set of corrupt principles, until everyone around you is equally damaged.

    You keep your corrupt morals, and your bad character. I’ll stick with trying to adhere to the excellent ones that Islam teaches me, thanks.

    3. If you think that you’re going to Google a couple of Islamophobic websites and suddenly prove some non-existent point, then go ahead, fill your boots.

    So what’s your contention with the verse? That the One who created all of mankind can’t give a husband a degree of responsibility over his wife? Why? Because you, the morally corrupted liar, thinks that it’s unfair?

    That the One who created all of mankind can’t give steps to help keep the family unit together if one of them is causing it to break up?

    There are three very distinct steps here if a husband, who is charged with maintaining and supporting his family (whether he wants to or not), is sure that his wife is going to cause the break up of their family through indecent behaviour.

    First, warn her. This should be enough for any spouse in any loving relationship. Second, don’t sleep with her. If step one failed, then you can be sure that being made to sleep in a separate bed is going to send out the message, loud and clear. Third, ‘strike’ her. But how is this ‘strike’? It’s no more than a symbolic, restrained hit on the body to let her know that the next step is divorce and the destruction of the family. The proof of this is well documented in many Islamic texts. At no time is it ever allowed for a husband to physically abuse his wife by doing anything that leaves a mark, or a bruise. Hitting ANY person in the face is also completely forbidden in the religion.

    This is all to avoid divorce, and keep the family together, so that the children can grow up in a healthy environment where they’re not going to grow up disadvantaged. The negative effects on most children who grow up in single parent families are well documented, and they don’t need me to explain them here.

    The family unit in Islam is one of equality, but the roles are not identical. Just like the midfield captain of the team’s role is not identical to that of the goalkeeper. They are both equal in terms of their importance to the team. If they ever decided to step out of their defined roles, then you can be sure that the team is going to lose.

    So while you rushed to quote this verse, why did you not quote any of these? http://www.submission.info/perspectives/women/equality.html

    Because you don’t know anything about Islam, or the Qur’an, and you’re just sitting there, Googling away, trying to look for the most negative interpretation that you can try to conjure up in your deceitful, lying mind.

    It’s all very ironic anyway, since, if you live in the West, you live in a society where domestic abuse is incredibly common. Where the family unit has degenerated into such a mess that single parent families are the complete norm. Where there is generation after generation of people failing to grasp the importance of marriage and sticking with the responsibility of raising children properly. Then of course, you’ve got the ridiculously high sexual assault rates, and the general consensus that beauty is what makes a woman. Women are sexual objects in the West, used to sell all sorts of things and make the 1% richer.

    I’ll tell you what, if I was a woman (now there’s a thought), I’d rather live in a properly practicing Islamic society than in one where there’s a very high probability that I’m going to be sexually assaulted, continually judged on my physical appearance, and suffer from anxiety, depression and a whole host of other psychological problems due to the general culture.

    Just look at Britney Spears! Now there’s a prime example of what Western culture can do to a “free” woman.

    #138 2 years ago