Minecraft – why I stopped playing it with my kids

Pat, you do realise that about 90% of your reader base probably grew up spending a minimum of about six hours a day gaming?

“told them to go into the garden or look at some books, they’d start crying”

“I want them to spend it learning about the real world, not a virtual one”

The garden thing I can get, but how is reading a book (particularly books intended for 4 year olds) more “real world” then a video game?

Another question is when your telling your children to go do something else, are they actually doing something more valuable?

Had the same thing with my three-year old though this was with Lego Batman 2. He comes up and asks if we can watch Batman, which means he wants me to play it.

It’s nice, because he’ll sit on my lap and watch me play, but I’ve been trying to limit the amount of time he sits and “plays” with me. He is three and supposed to be running around and finding snails and bugs to freak his mum out with.

It’s nice that he is getting into the same hobby as me, but there is plenty of time before he starts beating me at everything. Not looking forward to that day.

@2, Your right, the ability to point and click far outweighs being literate.

Why are video games different? It seems video games are somehow inherently bad and other things like books are inherently good.

In fact Minecraft in the way you describe and how I play with my 4 year old watching and instructing is a lot more beneficial than looking through a lot of books.

Judge each experience as an activity not as “playing a video game”. Balance is important obviously, but learning that is part of the growing process. Just because they ask for it constantly doesn’t mean you should stop it dead – if it’s beneficial then control the use but don’t stop it just because they cry when they can’t. That’s avoiding an issue not addressing it.

@1 Then they had lazy, irresponsible parents.

My parents allowed me two hours at most every night to play games, with slightly more time on weekends, and only after chores and study were done. The rest of my time was spent reading books.

My sister enforces those rules will her own kids (she’s even more strict, one hour a day), and I do the same with mine. And they’re better off for it. Six hours a day in front of a video game every day is neither emotionally healthy nor physically healthy.

@2 “how is reading a book (particularly books intended for 4 year olds) more “real world” then a video game?”

This has got to be a joke comment. Obviously it’s not “real world” in the literal sense. It’s far more productive in the long run for your child though. There are few skills in this world more crucial than literacy.

@5 “Why are video games different? It seems video games are somehow inherently bad and other things like books are inherently good.”

It’s fine in moderation, and it doesn’t have to be daily either. The benefits of physical exercise, fresh air, reading books and learning far outweigh the benefits of any video game.

I let my kids enjoy stuff like Minecraft and LittleBigPlanet, because it indulges their inherently creative natures, but that’s certainly not a nerve that needs to be twitched “6 hours a day”.

@5, Ask your five year old to give you a written instruction, smile at his incomprehension of “words”.

Books? Far to much like hard work.

@4, I know I am right since I have yet to see a video game that features text.

I’ve had to do the exact same thing with my kids and minecraft.

It’s not that games are inherently ‘bad’ – it’s just too easy for them to fall in to the trap of it being at the forefront of their minds.

It provides a great deal of mental stimulation without having to put in much effort. After a while, they forget that there are other things out there to do – and long term, it makes them irritable.

Kids need to be reminded that there’s plenty more out there to do – they just need encouragement…

I remember myself in 1993 playing the amazing Aladdin game on my Mega Drive 2. We were sitting with my mom in the room. She was reading books and newspapers and I was playing. But as guys mentioned above I had only 2 hours a day.

Most of my free time I was hanging out with my fiends outdoors: playing with sticks as swords, using small fireworks in the woods, walking up the river near our area, exploring abandoned building sites, etc.

Hell, even when I was 5 years old (1991) I was allowed to be in the courtyard of our huge house (like 400 flats) and play in the sandbox and around slides with other kids. My mom was just looking at me from the window from time to time. And that was around not really peaceful time in Moscow, Russia.

@8, Are you suggesting that it’s not important to be literate as Videogames don’t feature text?

On a scale of 1 to 10, can you guess how stupid that sounds? Tip: it’s above 5.

@6

My child, who is 15 now, spends a lot of time on his PC but that hasn’t stopped him from being part of the school Rugby team as well as the local Juniors Rugby team. He has read all of the books we have bought him to the point where we are considering getting him a Kindle so he can carry on reading the books that he wants without them taking up so much space in the house.

He has a very active social life where he speaks to his friends, arranges things to do over it as well as play the games they like to play.

And on top of all that, in his last results he was getting, on average, B’s in his exams, since they can’t get A’s until the end of the next school year. Myself and my wife are very proud of what he has achieved and we don’t push him to do something he doesn’t want to do, or has no interest in.

He plays LOL and Minecraft as often as he can when he has finished his activities, especially more so since it’s now his holidays.

So does that make me a lazy parent?

@8 That’s severely simplifying the point.

As someone who grow up on console RPGs, I’m well aware of how much reading you *can* get out of a video game. But those are much rarer experiences now, and there’s something seriously wrong if a video game is a kid’s only form of literary education.

@11, The internet hid my sarcasm I guess. the point was that Video games do feature text, and so do aid in learning literacy. Also if you look at my original post, I never said ANYTHING about literacy there. Ironic, isn’t it?

@6
“It’s fine in moderation, and it doesn’t have to be daily either. The benefits of physical exercise, fresh air, reading books and learning far outweigh the benefits of any video game.”

Physical exercise and fresh air are obviously providing different benefits. Reading books and learning are a greyer area though. You can learn a lot through creative play – particularly at this sort of age. I would argue constructive gaming with parental supervision and involvement can be very beneficial whilst being a lot of fun. There are issues around wanting to do it all the time but you find a balance and they learn from that process too.

Any TV and game-like playing on consoles or iPad my kids do I make sure is beneficial in some way and also balanced with other things. I just don’t like blanket responses which imply all gaming or TV is bad and they would be much better off reading a book which is obviously great regardless of content.

@13
“That’s severely simplifying the point.”

So was @4 to be fair.

@13 I was replying to a simple reply with a simple answer. I didn’t talk about learning to read and write, and somehow I’m pegged as “anti-literacy”. Go figure.

@15 “You can learn a lot through creative play – particularly at this sort of age.”

Which is exactly why I said this:

“I let my kids enjoy stuff like Minecraft and LittleBigPlanet, because it indulges their inherently creative natures, but that’s certainly not a nerve that needs to be twitched “6 hours a day””

“I just don’t like blanket responses which imply all gaming or TV is bad and they would be much better off reading a book which is obviously great regardless of content.”

I don’t think anyone here is saying that all gaming is bad. That would be a tad ironic, wouldn’t it? =P It’s all about moderation.

I think its pretty clear from Pat’s post that the kids weren’t respecting the idea of moderation, and that it was better to cut the cord than let them stay attached to it.

@17 Then what *is* the issue, if its not the value of literacy? Because obviously we’re all confused.

I love that the majority of comments condemning reading over playing video games are written with appalling grammar.

@12 Sorry, just saw that now.

Well, if its doing that well, is that physically active, and enjoys that many social activity, his life clearly doesn’t resolve around video games, does it? So obviously, you’re doing a pretty good job.

There’s nothing wrong with having a hobby, obviously. He’s 15 though, so that’s a completely different dynamic right there. He’s more capable of making healthy decisions and informed actions, so he understands the concept of moderation for himself. A 4 year old is not.

I think children should start as early as posstible with gaming, especially iPad games. Here in Norway some kindergardens use iPad to stimulate and educate realy young children.

Games like Minecraft wil let children and grown ups for that mather stimulate the creative part of the brain. The more that part is stimulated the more creative I belive the children wil be in other parts also.

But gaming as all other things must be controlled. If a child sits hours after hours the parents aint doing their job…

@12:

No it doesn’t. It makes you a fairly normal parent with an obviously very intelligent boy who’s living an active life that involves playing video games for an amount of time that you’re both comfortable with.

Ignore these individuals who are inventing a fairytale youth where they were happy to obey their parents at every available opportunity, and had the happiest of upbringings.

@22 If you think 42 hours of gaming a week is emotionally or physically healthy, you’re absolutely deluding yourself.

“Ignore these individuals who are inventing a fairytale youth where they were happy to obey their parents at every available opportunity, and had the happiest of upbringings.”

Nobody is even remotely saying that. Mountains of molehills.

Obviously as kids plenty of us had our times of rebellion against our parents, but as grown adults with our families of our own, some of us are actually capable of looking back at how our parents raised us, seeing why they made the decisions they made, and respecting them for it.

@19
I love that someone criticising grammar clearly hasn’t read and understood the posts. Which ones are condemning reading over playing video games?

@18
“I don’t think anyone here is saying that all gaming is bad.”

No I realise that, it’s more the implications of some statements which place certain activities above others with no caveats.

“@22 If you think 42 hours of gaming a week is emotionally or physically healthy, you’re absolutely deluding yourself.”

Quote me.

Go on, I dare ya!

@21
You can get some great stuff for young kids on tablets. Both my kids (4 and 2) have been using the iPad since they were 18 months. (NB: in moderation obviously).

Young kids learn a fantastic amount through play. Good and well structured apps can be very good for them.

You do have had issues with them always wanting it, but that is something you work on with careful moderation. We’ve come to a good situation with the older kid who will play happily for a reasonable amount of time and then voluntarily finish and want to do something else. The younger girl still needs some work – not in terms of finishing but in terms of wanting it on sight.

@24, Maybe he meant commending?

@24 “No I realise that, it’s more the implications of some statements which place certain activities above others with no caveats.”

Well, I can’t speak for anyone else, but my mother put a book in my hand at 2 and a half years of age, and I still thank her for it to this day.

@25 “Pat, you do realise that about 90% of your reader base probably grew up spending a minimum of about six hours a day gaming?”

Six hours a day = 42 hours a week.

Hilariously, you completely ignored the post where I agreed with him, mainly for the sake of another one of your pitiful attempts at deliberately antagonising people to satisfy your self-masturbatory complex.

@26 Hey Dr. Damn, do you have any personal suggestions for kids in the 10 – 13 range? The kids absolutely adore my iPad, but I haven’t had much luck finding anything good in the way of apps like that.

You did fail with that quote, O’Connor…

“@22 If you think 42 hours of gaming a week is emotionally or physically healthy, you’re absolutely deluding yourself”

Try again.

Where did I say that 6 hours a day was a good or a bad thing?

Quote me.

This raises an interesting point. Games have become the new wooden toys. If playing games keeps a child happy and content with its play, why restrict it. You wouldn’t take a wooden toy away from a child just because they were playing with it a bit too much would you?

@30 If it was the only thing they wanted to do, and they stopped wanting to spend time with people, and didn’t want to focus on their learning because of it… yes.

@18, To restate my original post, the issue is the books were portrayed as being more “real” then video games since books are part of the “real world” and video games are not. Edit: note the quotes I used in #2.

@18 Which is simplifying the issue. It’s a case of moderation. Pat obviously felt they were enjoying the game at the expense of far more important things.

Nothing to say, O’Connor…?

lolconnor == http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victorian_Dad

@18 I never objected to moderation or even referred to the amount of time a child spends in this or that activity. I was referring to the portrayal of the activity and the values associated with it.

@28
Aren’t you also glad someone put a joystick in your hand at some point too? My kids have a huge amount of books. They are only 2 and 4 but they have a 4 shelf book case downstairs just for their books along with a similar amount upstairs in their bedrooms. We read with them during the day and always a couple of books at bed time. There is a place and time for them to do other stuff like iPad and video games too though.

Apps for 10-13 range? Any particular area? Something like Quarrel is great for word play – Scrabble meets Risk. It gives out lots of useful info on meanings of words too.

I did look recently for Maths based stuff for ~10 year olds as I do a thing called Number Partners at a local school. Essentially go in and play maths based board games with a small group of 10 year olds. Couldn’t find much but didn’t look for long.

@35, Fantastic. This bit really made me chuckle:

“An early episode sees him on Christmas Day presenting his son with a stick and hoop as a Christmas gift…”

@37: Try mathletics. It won’t work on iPad, because of the lack of Flash, but obviously PC should be fine.

http://www.mathletics.co.uk

Well nobody should tell you how to raise your own children, but if it were me, I’d reward them with an hours gameplay for good behavior. I’d feel like a hypocrite if i outright banned them.

Games like minecraft encourage creativity, which is an awesome thing. Crayons and paper do the same, but it’s more fun when it’s so interactive.

Gee lets go off topic and start bringing up educational software. Pat stopped his kids playing Minecraft, which I’d say has zero real world application (if theirs a creeper outbreak tmro I’ll apologise).

He told his kids to read a book… Reading a book has plenty more real world applications, such as being literate, improving conversational skills and hardening the skin against papercuts.

Ok, just throwing my thoughts in this long discussion…

maybe the issue is with the quality of videogames (all videogames, the past ones and the new ones as well). We all agree that stories in books have a far better narrative in both quality and tone than all the videogames we ever played. And for grown ups, or even teens, movies are a better choice if they want to gain a profound and complex approach to human emotions.
The only game that I (finally) found on par with those other “noble” mediums is Journey. Well, if there was a huge canon of games thoughtfully crafted from an artistical standpoint as Journey, then maybe our perspective would be different.

…but then maybe you have to read some books before really appreciating Journey. That’s what human knowledge and art is really about: interconnection between different realms. There’s no such thing as a meaningful solipsistic activity. If it’s worth something, it refers something else, it suggests you something new…

@41
What does real world application mean? Minecraft can encourage creativity, logic, design – what’s not real world about those?

@41 Could you clarify what you mean when you say “literate”? which of these definitions are you using:

1.
able to read and write.
2.
having or showing knowledge of literature, writing, etc.; literary; well-read.
3.
characterized by skill, lucidity, polish, or the like: His writing is literate but cold and clinical.
4.
having knowledge or skill in a specified field: literate in computer usage.
5.
having an education; educated.

@37 The gaming was a self sought hobby, which was only supported when I had the money to do so. As a kid with a £5 allowance every week, that took quite some time. Hahaha.

Thanks for the suggestions.

@38 Funny quote, since we don’t celebrate Christmas. We teach the kids that you don’t need special occasions in which to treat people nicer when you could just do it anyway.

But fuck yeah, top hat and monocle!

@42
It’s not about games replacing what books provide – it’s about whether they can be beneficial or not in their own right. It doesn’t matter if games have rubbish stories if they are providing benefits in other ways.

It’s a cute point to make, but isn’t it also pretty banal?

If a small child is constantly begging you to do the same thing over and over again, then the only rational thing is to limit it, because clearly they’ve gone into that monomanic mode where nothing else matters, and that’s never going to be healthy.

And certainly much less so if it were actually indulged by you as a parent.

It doesn’t really matter if it’s putting together puzzles, reading stories or playing soccer. Those might be good things when you consider them on their own, but ultimately so is moderation.

First I’m Brazilian and I’m not so sure if my english is good, but I have only one thing to say: I wouldn’t be a sucesfull programmer without the amount of time I’ve spent playing videogames(and it’s a lot of time, like 10 hours of the day every day), but before you all come saying that books would have been better, I agree with that, that’s why I have more than $1500 worth of books in my house. About playing outside: I didn’t had many chances to do that because I live in a farm, and you can’t imagine how boring it gets to play without friends because you live too far and you had only 2 real friends that really went to your house and when they were there they wanted to play videgames. My point is: you can’t limit your children to only play videogames or to only read books, what you need is to see what they really like to do and with this activity create a fun way to learn, since I was so interested in games, my mother made me play flash games that were meant for children and really thought something. Thanks to all that I’ve decided what I want with my life, and I want to be a game developer. Videogames develop the capacity to think logically, you know how hard it is to play a final fantasy game when you don’t know english and have to discover what all means by try and error? I’ve learned all the english I know by playing a videogame, never had an english class until college.

I’m not saying you should let your kids be like me, but they should have the chance to try what they want, either it is a game, a book, a sport, and you should let them choose what they like

Literate, can reed and rite and stuff.

@48 Good viewpoint, with some valid point.

Like DSB said, it’s simply a case of not doing things too much. Just don’t let you kid becomes so obsessed with something that can’t act normally without doing it.

P.S. Your English and spelling is better than half the native English speakers on this site.