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ESA: Average gamer age is 30, adult women more lucrative than teenage boys

Wednesday, 1st August 2012 02:45 GMT By Brenna Hillier

The ESA has released a handy list of “essential facts” about the US games industry, including some startling demographic revelations.

One of the most interesting snippets is that the average age of a gamer is 30, but there’s a pretty even split across age groups, with 32% under 18, 31% between 18 and 35, and 37% over 36. The average age of the most frequent games buyer is 35%; 52% of these are male and 48% female, a pretty even split.

Speaking of gender, the ESA notes that 47% of gamers are female and 53% male, and said that women aged 18 and over represent 30% of game consumers – quite a lot higher than gaming’s traditional demographic, the under-18 male, at 18%.

49% of US households own a console; those that do own an average of two.

In a top 20 of best-selling games of 2011, Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3 is number one, followed by Just Dance 3, Madden NFL 13, The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim and Battlefield 3.

On the PC-only side, things are quite different; Star Wars: The Old Republic is top, then The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim, StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty. The Sims 3 and World of Warcraft: Cataclysm.

There are plenty more interesting statistics in the friendly-looking PDF, which you can download here, including details of what activities we’re giving up on in order to game; how online games are growing; how parents view video games; and how the industry has performed since 2001.

The ESA’s data was pulled from surveys and the NPD’s sales tracking.

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107 Comments

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  1. mpiwo

    That is one lovely designed PDF. Thought you were joking about the user-friendliness to lure us into some Excel-exported data.

    #1 2 years ago
  2. klewd

    the reason the “average age” is 30 is because they take mobile and online (facebook) games into account.

    the average would be more like ~20 if it wasn’t for that, and the number of females would be a lot lower (maybe half of that, at best? …just speculating).

    does someone qualify as a gamer just because they play pong on their phone for 5 minutes while taking a shit?

    #2 2 years ago
  3. roadkill

    @2 Oh oh and let’s not forget “the ESA notes that 47% of gamers are female”. LOL!!

    edit: Actually.. they might be right seeing that so many little boys are having sex changes these days.

    #3 2 years ago
  4. G1GAHURTZ

    Those females aren’t gamers.

    They’re just buying CoD for their younger brothers…

    #4 2 years ago
  5. OrbitMonkey

    @3, Can’t tell if over-compensating or satire…

    #5 2 years ago
  6. manamana

    No wonder teenage boys aren’t lucrative, they have no money and pirate everything.

    #6 2 years ago
  7. Strawb

    #2: I doubt the avg. would dip by 10 if you didn’t count mobile and social games. Maybe 5 years, but not 10.

    And in regards to your pong question: Yes, I would say you qualify as a gamer for playing pong on the crapper, as long as you do it regularly.

    #7 2 years ago
  8. DSB

    Women are more lucrative than teenage boys because they just love clicking stuff and filling up that little bar on Farm/City/Ripoffville.

    “OMG, for 5 dollars I can fill up this bar even faster!”

    #8 2 years ago
  9. silkvg247

    Seriously guys, drop the “females aren’t gamers” shite, or do I have to smack you? :p

    #9 2 years ago
  10. OlderGamer

    ^^What Silk said.

    My wife has played L4D, Wow, and Diablo III and that was just during the past few days. She has her own Xbox360, w/gold Live. And she has her own Steam account. And while a a few years younger then I am, she is well past the average age of 30yr old.

    She doesn’t play zynga or yahoo games. She never touched farmvile either.

    Stop with the lame sterio types will ya. Btw those same games I just listed my wife plays, my sister in law also plays. Get with the times boys.

    #10 2 years ago
  11. Ireland Michael

    Holy shit @ the raging misogyny in this thread.

    #11 2 years ago
  12. DSB

    Please. If a bunch of women are sitting over a latté talking about how little men can do, it’s charming and witty.

    If guys do it, they’re sexist pigs. Okay then.

    Sometimes trash talk is just that. No need to get your panties in a twist. Everybody takes a little flak every now and then.

    Where’s the protests against Sex and the City, the Vagina Monologues, or Desperate Housewives? It doesn’t exist, because trash talk just isn’t a big deal to us.

    I don’t think the best way to get equality is to keep playing the victim. Assert yourself, yes. But don’t just go looking for something to be offended about.

    Trying to assert the right not to be made fun of, is not a good way to integrate yourself anywhere.

    #12 2 years ago
  13. silkvg247

    @12 I don’t think I came across as offended – I’m used to the silly comments both here and at work and.. well, everywhere. I put up with even more slack being a raving lesbo, so I just give as good as I get.

    For the record I don’t do the whole “slag men off” thing, though I probably should. And Sex and the city etc.. no thanks. I am probably the polar opposite of the women you are describing.

    #13 2 years ago
  14. DSB

    @13 I’m sorry if you thought it was aimed at you, I think you generally make some very good points.

    It was more the notion of trash talking being representative of actual misogyny from Michael, which is the view of women as something to be owned, oppressed and degraded. To go from a bit of light slagging to that is just ridiculous.

    I think it’s great that women have a release to slag us off. I’m sure we’d be impossible to live with otherwise. We all need to vent about someone else on a regular basis, to keep from actually doing harm to them :P

    That’s kinda the point. It’s not a threat to anyone, and it isn’t representative of some kind of sinister world view, in which women are the niggers of the world.

    (That’s quoting the song by John Lennon as a context, not being racist)

    #14 2 years ago
  15. silkvg247

    Also, the video game industry IS sexist, period. I don’t think many can dispute that. But I don’t take offense, I just roll my fucking eyes and carry on gaming.

    #15 2 years ago
  16. ManuOtaku

    “And said that women aged 18 and over represent 30% of game consumers – quite a lot higher than gaming’s traditional demographic, the under-18 male, at 18%”

    Based on this data, one can assume that women are now the new blood of this hobby, i mean for the upcoming years they are going to be the releaving generation of this industry, wonder how thingss are going to change, now they are a big part of the main target too, not that i see it in a bad way, though, on the contrary i find this a really good thing, on all fronts.

    #16 2 years ago
  17. OrbitMonkey

    @11, Raging misogyny? Typical male over-reaction :-/

    #17 2 years ago
  18. ManuOtaku

    I think that for the things are going nowadays, womens dont need to be defended by man, males on the other hand do need to be defended, womens right now have the upper hand against mans on various every day life departments, like in jobs, in studies, socially speaking, etc almost in everything, except in Religion and some Religious countries, now males are the new weaker gender, not womens, they are pretty capable of defending themselves, just like us.

    Also Remember they have one more sense than we do, women intuition thats the reason why when we cheat them, they now it right away, when a women cheats her companion is the last person to find out, they are more intelligent than us, just for that additional sense, thats true, womens as the weaker gender now is just a paradigm, thats all.

    #18 2 years ago
  19. Ireland Michael

    @14 It was aimed at the more extreme comments on this thread, like roadkill’s. You’re over complicating the meaning of the word misogyny as well.

    At the very least, its ragingly sexist. The disturbing part is that they likely believe every word of what they’re saying.

    I don’t sit around with my guy friends bitching and moaning about what women can’t do, and I think any woman that actually spends their free time sitting around doing the same in regards to men must be a bit of a tool.

    #19 2 years ago
  20. silkvg247

    @18 Really? Why do female athletes, footballers, etc. get paid an absolute fuck tonne less than their male counter parts? Why do my male counterparts in IT often get paid more and treat with more respect? Why do I literally have to go an extra 10 miles to gain that same respect?

    Why do I still get idiotic derogatory comments in a FPS if the players find out I’m female?

    Why do so many countries still treat women like objects? Do you know of a single country or religion that makes men wear black tents over their entire body because their body isn’t allowed to be exposed? Or anyone who’d stone a man to death because he was raped? How about a country that cuts off your bell end because you aren’t allowed to orgasm during sex (yes that’s right, in some country the clitoris is removed)?

    Why does the media brainwash girls into thinking they are baby making machines at their youngest most impressionable ages? Why does nobody stop to think it’s actually a little bit morally wrong to show 4 year old girls that raising babies (plastic baby dolls) and cooking food (plastic ovens) and cleaning up (plastic vacuum cleaners) is their lot in life? In the meantime boys get guns, transformers, scalectrix, computers.. FUN stuff! Does nobody think it might cause massive waste of talent to turn what might of been the female genius programmer of our era into a pregnant teenager? If you think advertisements and TV don’t have this profound effect, I’d have to argue you are wrong. The only reason I didn’t end up a blonde bimbo is because I’m too stubborn, was a tomboy and had two older brothers.

    What about the media constantly making girls think if they’re beyond a size 10 they are fat?

    You speak with grave naivety young padawan.

    Men might take umbrage to the little piss takes of the modern woman, but they are such small things to tolerate compared to what women have had to bear for centuries.

    #20 2 years ago
  21. Ireland Michael

    @20 Expect to be swamped with comments (by “men”) about taking things too seriously, being overly emotional, and generally having your opinion casually dismissed as hyperbole.

    #21 2 years ago
  22. OlderGamer

    “Why do I still get idiotic derogatory comments in a FPS if the players find out I’m female?”

    Because your playing in a genere over run with teen and jouvenile males. I get negitive sludge if/when people find out I am three times their age. Love getting called Gramps, it makes beating them even sweeter.

    As for the rest, because men had the power forever, and history has shown that people with power rarely like to let go of it. My wife, in IT, educated, and former Air Force works for a fortune 500 company and makes considerably less then her male coworkers, even tho she carries them on project after project. She moved from one team to another to head up a troubling project, when she first got there, her boss looked over her review and claimed that her last boss claimed she could walk on watter. Why? Because she had recieved praises and achievments. Her new boss was a man, and felt threatend.

    It is bull shit. I hope someday it changes. But I doubt it will happen in our lifetime. It will happen tho. I recently went to a HS awards cerimony. When they did the honor rolls for GPA over 90%, the females out numbered the males 3-1, easily. Education is the key.

    Just be glad you don’t live in one of those contries that haven’t changed in hundreds of years or more.

    #22 2 years ago
  23. DSB

    @20 “Why do female athletes, footballers, etc. get paid an absolute fuck tonne less than their male counter parts?”

    Because fewer people want to watch them play.

    “Why do I still get idiotic derogatory comments in a FPS if the players find out I’m female?”

    I don’t know, why do I get derogatory comments every time I win? I once got kicked from a server because I wasn’t ethnically Thai. Shit happens.

    “Why do so many countries still treat women like objects?”

    Because they’re dumb. To be fair, male circumcision is pretty common too, even in enlightened societies. I’m pretty sure those kids aren’t thrilled to be sliced and diced just so they can conform to a social stereotype.

    “Why does the media brainwash girls into thinking they are baby making machines at their youngest most impressionable ages?”

    I don’t know. I was “brainwashed” into thinking the Turtles were cool, and most certainly worth 30 bucks per action figure. Actually, I have no regrets there what so ever.

    “What about the media constantly making girls think if they’re beyond a size 10 they are fat?”

    Well, the media also tries to make a guy feel useless unless he has a sixpack, a 10 inch cock, and a Lamborghini. That’s just what it does.

    #23 2 years ago
  24. TheBlackHole

    https://encrypted-tbn2.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQU8nPvdI7eW_rbIPdr77dtCR0UOsicjzNexFwQSvQlZSQVvEi-

    #24 2 years ago
  25. silkvg247

    @23 Circumcision is NOT the same thing, I am talking about complete clitoral removal via a knife and fire so that the female cannot feel pleasure, it’s hardly the same as removing some excess skin! If I recall, circumcision on a man actually has the benefit of heightened sensitivity so really not sure why you would compare the two.

    Also don’t you ever stop to think *why* fewer people want to watch women play? Could it be perhaps because they are seen as inferior? That their sport receives maybe 10% of the sponsorship and promotion of a male counterpart?

    Thinking the turtles were cool is hardly going to affect your career choice is it?

    #25 2 years ago
  26. TheBlackHole

    My G/F kicks my ass.

    She plays games too.

    #26 2 years ago
  27. DSB

    @25 That runs counter to a lot of scientific evidence. Removing the foreskin means the actual head develops thicker skin and becomes less sensitive as a result. I’m not circumsized (I’m sure you’re all happy to know) so I wouldn’t know, but I imagine it would be like constantly wearing a thick condom for the rest of your life.

    You’re right though, it’s not the same, but it’s still a violation perpetrated against an infant based on his sex, no matter how much babble about hygiene you wrap it in. Most of us know how to use water and soap.

    I don’t think fewer people want to watch women play because they are seen as inferior, I think it’s because they are inferior in a lot of cases.

    What do you think happens when you put a women’s national soccer team up against the men’s ditto?

    It’s just a question of merit, not prejudice. The better show takes the greater dough.

    One example is right here in Denmark. Handball is a big deal (for some reason I’m not quite sure of) and traditionally the women’s teams have been far more succesful than the male ditto.

    As a result, their position is reversed, so women actually do get a far more prominent position in those leagues. Of course now the men have started winning more, and the women less so, so there might be a shift there. It’s simply about who delivers the goods.

    #27 2 years ago
  28. YoungZer0

    Damn it, DSB. You just made my whole comment worthless.

    Except for one thing:

    Most women i know who complain about not getting more money, never asked for more money. Those women seem to be too passive when it comes to that. They seem to hope that the boss will see their worth. And you know what? He probably does, but when there is a chance for him to pay less money, he’s going to take that chance.

    #28 2 years ago
  29. absolutezero

    Poor womyn.

    Shit sorry [TRIGGER WARNING]

    #29 2 years ago
  30. Wokomehee

    http://wokomehee.blogspot.no/

    #30 2 years ago
  31. OlderGamer

    The thing is Silk wasn’t complaining about anything, just pointing somethings out…which some of you folks have proven in your own words.

    #31 2 years ago
  32. G1GAHURTZ

    “Really? Why do female athletes, footballers, etc. get paid an absolute fuck tonne less than their male counter parts?”

    Because they’re not as good.

    “Why do my male counterparts in IT often get paid more and treat with more respect?”

    It’s not just IT. Women, as a whole, have never traditionally been competitive in the workplace throughout the entire history of mankind.

    “Why do I literally have to go an extra 10 miles to gain that same respect?”

    Because you’re looking for the wrong sort of respect in the wrong place.

    “Why do I still get idiotic derogatory comments in a FPS if the players find out I’m female?”

    People get offensive remarks, no matter their gender/race/religion/nationality/etc.

    “Why do so many countries still treat women like objects?”

    Because they’re literally the weaker sex.

    “Do you know of a single country or religion that makes men wear black tents over their entire body because their body isn’t allowed to be exposed?”

    I can find you a hundred women without even trying who would genuinely tell you that they do it of their own free will.

    “Or anyone who’d stone a man to death because he was raped?”

    Don’t believe the hype.

    “How about a country that cuts off your bell end because you aren’t allowed to orgasm during sex (yes that’s right, in some country the clitoris is removed)?”

    Well, that would be kind of counter productive for intercourse, wouldn’t it?

    “Why does the media brainwash girls into thinking they are baby making machines at their youngest most impressionable ages?”

    Because the male dominated media wants to get them pregnant.

    “Why does nobody stop to think it’s actually a little bit morally wrong to show 4 year old girls that raising babies (plastic baby dolls) and cooking food (plastic ovens) and cleaning up (plastic vacuum cleaners) is their lot in life?”

    Your question is a fallacy.

    “In the meantime boys get guns, transformers, scalectrix, computers.. FUN stuff! Does nobody think it might cause massive waste of talent to turn what might of been the female genius programmer of our era into a pregnant teenager?”

    Most girls simply don’t like guns/transformers/cars/etc. they find them about as much fun as I find colouring in pictures of ponies with heart shaped hooves.

    “If you think advertisements and TV don’t have this profound effect, I’d have to argue you are wrong. The only reason I didn’t end up a blonde bimbo is because I’m too stubborn, was a tomboy and had two older brothers.”

    Ironic ‘blonde’ stereotype is ironic.

    “What about the media constantly making girls think if they’re beyond a size 10 they are fat?”

    Fat women don’t sell.

    #32 2 years ago
  33. Ireland Michael

    @32 Wow. Just… wow.

    I’ve always thought you were a moron, but now you’re just a fucking pig. Spitting on you would be an insult to saliva.

    #33 2 years ago
  34. G1GAHURTZ

    Same to you.

    #34 2 years ago
  35. OlderGamer

    Really G1GA?

    #35 2 years ago
  36. Ireland Michael

    @34 You’re not only the embodiment of everything wrong with gamers, but everything wrong with the male gender.

    You’re fucking sickening.

    @35 Frankly, I’m surprised I’m even surprised.

    #36 2 years ago
  37. G1GAHURTZ

    Yes, O’Conner. Very nice.

    Same to you.

    #37 2 years ago
  38. Ireland Michael

    @37 Thankfully, the whole community can see it for themselves.

    #38 2 years ago
  39. G1GAHURTZ

    @OG:

    What did I say that wasn’t true?

    I’m just being realist.

    I might have been blunt, but this is the way of the world.

    No sugar-coating necessary.

    #39 2 years ago
  40. G1GAHURTZ

    @38:

    That’s lovely…

    Anything new to add?

    #40 2 years ago
  41. YoungZer0

    Is there still a seat left on the “G1GAHURTZ is a moron” bandwagon? It looks pretty crowded.

    #41 2 years ago
  42. absolutezero

    http://youtu.be/WO23WBji_Z0

    #42 2 years ago
  43. G1GAHURTZ

    @41: You can have a window seat!

    #43 2 years ago
  44. Ireland Michael

    @41 I’d say it’s about even with the “Ireland Michael is a moron” ship, but nowhere near as crowded as the “Da Man is an asshole” bus. It’s probably a close call.

    #44 2 years ago
  45. G1GAHURTZ

    Calling people out who aren’t involved in the comments is unnecessary trouble making.

    #45 2 years ago
  46. DSB

    @42 It’s apt, but that’s pretty much how I look at it. It’s an argument that’s never going to end.

    I don’t think there’s any way you can ever moderate the balance between the sexes, without fucking it up. It’s always going to be up to men and women to find a balance for themselves, and I think it’s fair to say that they do that just fine on a daily basis.

    It’s “I have the pussy, I make the rules” versus “I have the cock, I fuck the pussy”. And men and women are going to keep challenging eachother on that, just like they always have.

    #46 2 years ago
  47. ManuOtaku

    #20 silkvg247, i understand everything you put, and i do agree, if you see my comment i also put the religous asppect of some countries as an exception,also de wrong practices they do to women, like you brigthly put it, ones which i do despise for the record.

    But what i did try to said is that now womens have an upper hand, for the very thing they were treated bad in the past, the sex,most of the workplaces, universities, schools are rule or dominated by males, and an important percentage of womans use the sex, to ascend in working positions or to get better paid or to pass exams in university or collage,getting better results than mans, becuase in the majority of those places, including society, are rule by mans, and some womans use this advantage very cleverly, even without having real sex, only with looking good, moving their bodies real nice, smelling good and given smiles,etc, they did turn the table in their favor, thats what i did try to say, not that all the womans are like that, but now an important part of womans can obtain more things that man using the sex to their favor, something in the past they didnt do, or had the ability to do so, for the constrains of society in past times.

    Also i did put the additional sense the womans has, as an advantage, and something that i admire, becuase this made them more intelligent that man, and for the reason i did stated above (cheating), which in my eyes is saying good things about women not deminish them, sorry if i did offend you, thats wasnt the intention, really, just stating my point of view, womans now are so strong that dont need man to defend them, if thats the case it will be something with a male chauvinism touch, if you look it for the man the advocates this, as for the women that let that happen, i mean the need to be defended.

    #47 2 years ago
  48. Dragon246

    I think ESA would have made the document a hell lot more productive if they would have differentiated gamers on basis of social/casual/console/pc gamers and also on age and sex.
    @Silk,
    I still live in a country where female infanticide is rampant and difference in education is apparant. Still I dont think this problem wouldn’t go away anytime soon. What G1GA is saying is unfortunately the common thinking/logic for many males. Unless such thinking disappears, this problem will remain. At the current state of things , the horizon is dark. Conservative thoughts are very difficult to replace as is the case with many other things like religion.

    #48 2 years ago
  49. silkvg247

    @G1GA – It’s really sad if you honestly beleive the things you’re saying.. what I find the most unsusual is saying we’re inferior. So you must be saying “Strength” is the only way to be superior? Have we suddenly devolved to the point where cavemen need to club dinosaurs?

    The sports comments are absurd. How can you judge is a man is better than a woman? Or do you seriously have such a lack of imagination that it’s completly alien to concieve that lifting 20kg for a woman is the *exact same amount of effort for her* as it is for a guy to lift triple the amount. You are saying the man is better because he’d beat the woman, which is hardly the fucking point.

    Also you’re way off base making assumptions on my career history.. I fought tooth and nail and I *did* get to where I wanted to be, point is, it was that much harder because I have boobs. It’s retarded when you consider logical thinking is something the female brain copes well with, thus we make great programmers.

    You’re right that girls often lack ambition and don’t get far. But the sad truth of that is it’s because of people like you telling them they are inferior in the first place. It’s only because I have such thick skin that I was able to overcome all that shit and fight for my goals.

    The bit that actually made you look a total ass is the comment about women being accepting of their fate, that they are happy to walk around concealed. You know if they stood up for themselves they’d get beaten, right? Don’t spout such fucking shit.

    #49 2 years ago
  50. silkvg247

    @47 you haven’t offended me, but I do think you perhaps watch too much TV if you think women really use their sexuality to progress in life.

    Maybe a very select few.. but I’ve never, ever seen it myself.

    Also if it were to happen, wouldn’t the man giving her a payrise for all the wrong reasons be to blame?

    #50 2 years ago
  51. ManuOtaku

    #50 Silk here in Venezuela, happens a lot and with a hughe incidence, maybe is a thing of South America countries then.

    “also if it were to happen, wouldn’t the man giving her a payrise for all the wrong reasons be to blame”

    Yes i agree, like a bad marriage the fault is 50%/50%, i mean both have they share of fault, one for doing it and one for let it happen

    #51 2 years ago
  52. silkvg247

    @DSB If there were a measure for “effort” then finally we’d see that men and woman who take their sport seriously actually both put in the same amount of sweat, blood and tears, and *that* is what matters. Pitching sex against sex is idiotic.

    It’s about what each gender can do within the reasonable realms of their own limits. And yet if a woman surpasses what all other women before her have done.. it’s downplayed compared to if a man were to do the same. Why? Because he kicked the ball further than her, jumped longer, lifted bigger weights.

    I don’t see why there is such a double standard, the woman is just as amazing as the man in this scenario.

    #52 2 years ago
  53. ManuOtaku

    Silk, This is on topic with the chinesse swimming girl in the olympics, with only 16 years old did made a better time on the last 50 meters than any other man in the same competition, including Phelps, woow, now for that they are saying it was done under the influence of some drugs, at what she did reply, if nobodys is doubting the Phelps Wins and share of broken records, why doing it with me?, a fine example of this.

    #53 2 years ago
  54. silkvg247

    @51 If it happens a lot, chances are that women who try to get jobs the fair way aren’t given a fair chance, so ended up resorting to other methods. It’s never as black and white as it seems.

    #54 2 years ago
  55. PEYJ

    @DSB

    Thank you indeed for your comments about the subject. Very spot on and certain arguments and comments needed to be countered and you did it well.

    #55 2 years ago
  56. ManuOtaku

    #54 i think is due the fact the womens, at least here in South America, are seen as unproductive, working wise, because here are laws that give vacations pre-during and post the pregnancy time, is like 6 to 9 months out of the job, according to laws, which at the eyes of the companys give them productions issues, and loses money speaking, and a trouble to relocate working resources, but it is more of explotation of the workers than anything else, moreso than sexism, which is in itself another topic, although maybe they have some correlation and justaposition ( i dont know if thats the word for when one thing overlaps the other).

    #56 2 years ago
  57. silkvg247

    @56 Well there you go then, sounds like over there you have serious issues with sterotypes and sexism, so women are resorting to other methods. I mean I’d never get pregnant myself, but I think companies are perhaps not looking at the bigger picture if they think a few months off to keep the human race going is that big a deal.

    If I ever had a negative chance at a job just because my body can get pregnant, if I had proof, I’d sue. It’s just so morally.. wrong.

    #57 2 years ago
  58. ManuOtaku

    #57 yes we have, but like i said it goes both sides, here womens dont sue,here the law system is very flawed, most of the time it favours the most powerfull (money speaking), womens here use sex as an equalizer, like i did mentioned in my previous posts, they are beating man at their own game, i guess 8D, thats why i did stated previously that women dont need to be defended, at least here.

    #58 2 years ago
  59. DSB

    @52 Some part of me wishes you were right about that, and part of me doesn’t.

    People don’t get graded for effort, they get graded for results. And I’d say that goes doubly so for sports.

    “She may look like crap out there, but she wants it more than anybody else. Let’s assign her team two points for that”.

    It simply wouldn’t resonate with anyone. I respect effort, but if I’m going to watch sports, I’m going to want the greatest spectacle I can get.

    I have a hard time spotting the prejudice in that.

    When it comes to something like tennis, I think it becomes a lot more appropriate, because there’s so little difference in watching womens tennis and mens tennis. And even then the problem is with the leagues. Wimbledon doesn’t offer the same amount of money for a women’s title as it does for a men’s title, but I’m guessing that there are a lot of different factors in that as well. From the ability of the associations to negotiate their terms, to the number of spectators.

    In my country though, women’s tennis is the only thing worth watching, because our very best athlete in the sport is female, and the men are overwhelmingly shit at it.

    You could turn it around and look at porn. If anyone should be offended by porn, it should be men, since the male actors are typically only earning a fraction of the pay, while obviously doing most of the heavy lifting :)

    #59 2 years ago
  60. G1GAHURTZ

    @49:

    1. Quote me where I said women were inferior.

    2. You misread my comment. I just told it how it is. At no point did I say whether or not those facts were right or not, or what my opinion on that particular point was.

    3. Look at the records. When you can find me a woman who can run faster than Usain Bolt, can dribble around 6 foot defenders like Messi, or throw a punch with a 1000lb force, and I might change my mind.

    Men are physically stronger then women in general. So obviously, they can kick further, run faster and hit harder than women. It’s a blatant fact.

    4. You’ve been sucking up too much tabloid gibberish.

    The concealing is nothing to do with dominance, and everything to do with faith.

    Whether you agree with that particular faith or not is a completely different issue.

    Sure, I agree that there are women who don’t want to cover themselves up, but are forced into it. But to say that this accounts for 100% of them is just plain ignorant.

    There are also women who are beaten BECAUSE they cover, while their families don’t want them to. There are also women who are converts, and are under more family/society pressure to stay uncovered than the other way around, but they choose to do what they like.

    Don’t assume that everyone who isn’t you is a weak little mouse who can’t stick up for themselves.

    That’s arrogance.

    #60 2 years ago
  61. Da Man

    Ghz, don’t mind O’Conner and Co.. only place these people exist is the internet.

    You’re being realistic, they live some e-freedom dream. Esp O’Conner and silk. You’re pretty much one of a few only sane persons around these parts.

    This isn’t arse kissing, I don’t mind what you think about myself, just saying.

    #61 2 years ago
  62. G1GAHURTZ

    Effort has nothing to do with anything in sport. It’s about winning.

    Put the current world and European champions, Spain up against the best women’s football team, and the men would win 100 times out of 100.

    Your initial comment was about money.

    People pay to watch the best, and that’s why they get the higher salaries.

    Besides, using football is a bit silly, because it’s only about 1% of players who get the astronomical wages.

    #62 2 years ago
  63. G1GAHURTZ

    Thanks Da Man.

    At least some people actually read what I wrote instead of what imaginary arguments were floating around in their head.

    #63 2 years ago
  64. viralshag

    You can always rely on an article which includes facts about sexes in gaming to get the blood pumping in the VG247 comments section.

    #64 2 years ago
  65. OlderGamer

    I am not sure sports should be the defining criteria for measuring a persons worth, male or female. I see the points being made. But here is the thing while those top means team could prolly beat the top female teams, both teams would be the crap out of most if not all of us watching. I am not a better person or gender simply because some muscle bound man can out perform(phisicly) a women. I don’t get a pass due to gender asociation.

    Like I said fact is either one would kick my ass.

    In areas that actualy matter, I would like to think that things should be a bit more evened out. In the work place, in the home, in society. And in as it relates to our insignificant hobby, games. Just have to use your head. People are people, male or female. Show a little respect.

    My situation is that my wife is the bread winner so to speak. I am a stay at home Dad. I cook, clean, and run the house. I also am what you might call a semi pro authe(I know, because I spell so good and have complete mastery over grammer lol). As much as a hobby as anything but I do make a little money doing it. I am very comfortable with my marrage and place in this world.

    Some of you folks are kind of scary to say the least. But I guess you bump into all kinds on the net, esp an international site like this one.

    #65 2 years ago
  66. Da Man

    Actually… I worked at a multi-national corp and two small studios before going to the this current start-up. Women-coders were vastly outnumbered.. There were a few female modelers, but mostly they ‘re into abs diff professions.

    Believe it or not, genders do play a role in whether you’re more (and a lot more) suited for a particular activity.

    Your friends are scary, old man. Imho.

    #66 2 years ago
  67. OlderGamer

    Equality is scary DM?

    #67 2 years ago
  68. Da Man

    No, their dreams are.

    It’s like playing some jrpg where there’s a character making some kind of mutant.

    But characters in jrpg have a purpose.

    #68 2 years ago
  69. DSB

    @65 So why on earth would you ever take it personally? They get paid for being that good. We don’t. Why would that bother us?

    Demanding that you get paid the same for performing worse just doesn’t make sense.

    The only area I can think of where women don’t have the same opportunity as men is the military, and I think that’s a huge mistake, even if there are certain implications to having women serve in the military.

    The fact that they’re almost certain to get raped when captured being one, and the fact that the population at home would react proportionately stronger to that being another.

    #69 2 years ago
  70. silkvg247

    @59 lol @ porn :)

    Back to my original point though, I’m not saying anyone should get points just for trying, I’m saying that the very best female athletes should get every bit as much respect and pay as the very best male athletes. A woman winning a gold medal should be exactly equal in pay and respect to a man winning a gold medal.

    #70 2 years ago
  71. OrbitMonkey

    Back in the good old days when men got all threatened by women and their feminine wiles, we just called them Witches & burnt them at the stake!

    Now we just chat shit on forums & say we ‘re being realistic … Progress sucks.

    #71 2 years ago
  72. silkvg247

    @61 Wait.. what? And I always thought I was quite rational :p

    #72 2 years ago
  73. Da Man

    #71 – Too true, have you read Till Eulenspiegel?

    Nah, you played Final Fantasy..

    #73 2 years ago
  74. G1GAHURTZ

    No silk. Don’t try and move the goal posts, now…

    You asked a question that was specifically about pay. Respect didn’t come into it in any way, shape or form.

    I answered with a blunt, but realistically indisputable reason. That it’s down to ability, and that the elite of male athletes will almost always be better to watch for the vast majority of sports fans than the elite of female athletes.

    Respect, self worth or taking a good place in society has absolutely nothing to do with the conversation.

    After that, it’s just down to simple economics. Leave emotion out of it. (No sexist remark intended. OG is being pretty emotional, too.)

    If 70 million people are willing to pay money to watch the Premiership, that money can be distributed among the players.

    If the womens professional league coud draw those numbers, then they’d DESERVE the exact same pay.

    Otherwise, who’s going to pay their wages!??

    Where do you think they’re going to get the money from to pay them in the first place!??

    And as for gold medals, well the Olympics is an ametuer only competition. There’s no prize money.

    So both men and women DO get equal rewards.

    Gold for men, gold for women.

    #74 2 years ago
  75. OrbitMonkey

    @73, Wasted intellectual posturing is wasted.

    #75 2 years ago
  76. OrbitMonkey

    @74, Men don’t take female atheletes seriosly. Why are you trying to dress it up?

    #76 2 years ago
  77. Da Man

    #75, you’re a sad person if that’s posturing for you.

    #77 2 years ago
  78. silkvg247

    @74 I’ve raised a lot more points than just pay :p

    I don’t think you or I will agree on sports as a subject. I mean can you even define (logically) why watching a man excel at something is more enjoyable than watching a woman do the same? Is it not just like that because traditionally sports has always been male dominated and people are too stubborn to look at things differently?

    I understand the point about pay having to come from somewhere, but so long as people think the same way you do, women haven’t got a single chance in hell of ever getting that far. Because they aren’t taken as seriously. I’ve yet to see a good answer as to why that is.

    My comments about pay are mainly from personal experience at work where gender should make no difference at all, not if I’m every bit as confident and damnit.. GOOD! at my job. In my last place I had so many guys get all competetive with me.. it was a joke, I wasn’t interested in competing, I was interested in doing well at my job. Why do men get so threatened if a woman can do something just as well if not better? Thankfully in my new place no such atmosphere exists, I’m kind of treat like a guru by the guys and gals. It’s nice. :)

    #78 2 years ago
  79. YoungZer0

    @73: We get it, you read a lot of books. Didn’t make you any smarter though.

    #79 2 years ago
  80. OrbitMonkey

    @77, No your sad times infinity!

    #80 2 years ago
  81. OrbitMonkey

    @78, Why do men get threatened? Vagina envy, or as i call it Vagenvy.

    #81 2 years ago
  82. G1GAHURTZ

    @76:

    What are you talking about?

    People keep trying to divert from the original point, because they realise that the original point makes perfect sense.

    Taking people seriously doesn’t mean anything here.

    The question was raised as to why women athletes get less. Well it’s simple. They get less, because they are less watched.

    Just like the Scottish league has fewer worldwide viewers than the Premiership, so the teams get less money from viewing rights, and they obviously pay their players less money.

    It’s basic mathematics, but some hyper-sensitive, new age, wannabe heros see the words ‘men’ ‘better’ and ‘women’ and start reading words that were never there in the first place.

    Saying that women athletes should be paid the same as men, when the money simply isn’t there is compete nonsense.

    #82 2 years ago
  83. Da Man

    Sure did, young nobody.

    #83 2 years ago
  84. OrbitMonkey

    @82, Well how would female atheletes pull the crowds when their not taken seriously? Why invent some rational about pay and performance ?

    Men don’t like female atheletes period… Unless their playing a girls game like vollyball…

    Mmmmh Beach Vollyball…

    #84 2 years ago
  85. G1GAHURTZ

    “I mean can you even define (logically) why watching a man excel at something is more enjoyable than watching a woman do the same?”

    It’s not about watching “men”.

    It’s about watching the best.

    Usain Bolt can run 100m in 9.58 seconds. The best ever recorded time for women is 10.49.

    10.49 seconds is a time that men beat on a regular basis.

    So if you want to see the best sprinters, who are you going to watch, men or women?

    This is the basic principle that translates into all other sports.

    The best football players, the best boxers, the best tennis players, the best golfers, etc.

    It’s not rocket science. If a woman came along who could compete with the best men, you can be sure that the agents and advertisers are going to be all over her quicker than you can say ‘exploitation’.

    As for your job, well if you’re good, you deserve to be paid just as much as any man. I don’t disagree on that.

    But don’t fall into the trap of thinking that being competitive doesn’t exist among men. It certainly does.

    #85 2 years ago
  86. G1GAHURTZ

    @84:

    You’re talking nonsense. Stop judging others by your own standards.

    Taken a survey, have you?

    I think you’ll find that there are many female athletes who are taken incredibly seriously by fans and media alike.

    #86 2 years ago
  87. silkvg247

    @85 That’s where we differ, if I want to see the best sprinters I’d watch the mens and the womens. I take them both seriously. I don’t see why it matters that a man’s top speed is faster than a woman’s, they don’t compete against each other. It’s about watching people struggle, try and succeed in their own events.

    Anyways you’ve highlighted a vicious circle and it’s why things will likely never change. They aren’t taken as seriously because they are women and will never, ever be on par physically with men. They aren’t paid as much because they aren’t taken seriously. People like you can’t comprehend why they should be taken every bit as seriously since they have to compete with fierce competiton from other women. And so we go full circle.

    #87 2 years ago
  88. OrbitMonkey

    @86. No i’m not. Female atheletes are a relatively new phenomena, first competing in the Olympics in 1900. Female boxing was added 2012. Thats 112 years to get a womans class in every event.

    Oh and female atheletes taken seriously? lol yeah the pretty ones!

    #88 2 years ago
  89. G1GAHURTZ

    @87:

    Well… Maybe I’m just completely missing something here, but I always assumed that the point of a race was to see who was the fastest.

    So if men are faster than women, then that’s simply why they get more views. It’s nothing to do with my opinion. Millions of people around the world, men and women, turn on their TVs to watch the fastest.

    ‘Who is the fastest person on earth?’

    ‘Let me watch, so that if they break the world record, I can remember it as a “where were you when…” moment.’

    That doesn’t mean that you don’t take other athletes seriously!

    Besides, the Olympics has very little to do with struggle and and success, and more to do with nationalism.

    Anyway, lets move on to this new ‘taken seriously’ fallacy that you’re bringing now.

    Sports have many, many tiers.

    It’s not just men and women.

    There are under 18′s, ametuers, semi-pro, disabled athletes, etc, etc, etc.

    None of them get the exposure, and pay that the top athletes get. Does that mean that they’re not taken seriously?

    Under-21 international football hardly gets anywhere near as many views as the senior teams.

    Does that mean that they’re not taken seriously??

    NO!

    Of course not.

    You’ve got to stop living in a romantic world where people will suddenly want to spend their hard earned cash on those who will never be the best at what they do.

    Just like you wouldn’t spend your money on a game that’s not as good, when you could buy the very best, ground-breaking one instead.

    #89 2 years ago
  90. G1GAHURTZ

    “Thats 112 years to get a womans class in every event.’”

    Oh, is that all? However did they manage to find enough time…?

    “Oh and female atheletes taken seriously? lol yeah the pretty ones!”

    Maybe that’s how you think. Not me.

    #90 2 years ago
  91. Da Man

    #80, I call ‘sad’ people who have nothing better to do than to throw generic urbandictionary phrases around. I don’t think I would say that it’s normal for people to choose professions based on natural tendencies if I were ‘threatened’ by that.

    And you should read that one. That is if you still can decipher more than blog posts. Perhaps you might get a proper definition of a word ‘progress’ then.

    #91 2 years ago
  92. silkvg247

    @89 Aren’t there seperate world records for men and women?

    #92 2 years ago
  93. G1GAHURTZ

    Indeed, there are.

    If the women’s record time was faster, they would compete directly against the men.

    #93 2 years ago
  94. YoungZer0

    @83: Haha, wow, nice. Gotta write that one down. So funny.

    #94 2 years ago
  95. OrbitMonkey

    @93, No they won’t & that will never happen, which is kinda the point. Women got nothing to lose competing with men .

    #95 2 years ago
  96. OrbitMonkey

    @91, Your natural ability to talk bollocks would be impressive if the interweb wasn’t full of guys(?) like you, regurgitating the same *sad* old shit.

    Try saying something funny, oh wait your the only one laughing at your jokes.

    #96 2 years ago
  97. Ireland Michael

    > Calls men “the best”
    > still thinks he’s not a misogynist.

    #97 2 years ago
  98. absolutezero

    Stop implying without green text you.

    #98 2 years ago
  99. Dragon246

    Is sports the best parameter here to discuss men-women equality? GIGa definitely has a point in that the male version of sports is more competitive than female one, which inevitably shows in viewership and money earned, but if we move to other fields , there is no reason for such disparity. Women get payed less in almost every field for no logical reason. Although things are changing in some fields.

    #99 2 years ago
  100. Da Man

    #96, no you are, you silly little insignificant tool.

    Throw in another urban dictionary template.

    For a try hard sarcastic prick, doing nothing but attempts at snarky remarks, with occasional tired bullshit here and there you oddly enough, fail to grasp the irony.

    Where I live a female coder gets payed exactly the same, they even specify gender as any in vacancies, it’s that there ‘re perhaps two of them for every company. I thought Tim Sweeny didn’t have a gender change btw.

    #100 2 years ago
  101. Hunam

    I think you all need to chill the fuck out.

    #101 2 years ago
  102. OrbitMonkey

    @100, Ha, oh please your superiority complex is killing me! Your still not funny, but that takes wit :-P

    #102 2 years ago
  103. Da Man

    Might want to replace your keyboard with a 4chan bot. Saves the hassle, #102.

    #103 2 years ago
  104. OrbitMonkey

    Assumptions make a ass out of u & mption #103 :-*

    #104 2 years ago
  105. Ireland Michael

    @100 Hey Pot. Meet Kettle. He’s black too.

    #105 2 years ago
  106. absolutezero

    Why would you necro this. Why WHY.

    WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

    #106 2 years ago
  107. Da Man

    Because:

    quote: Meet Kettle. He’s black too

    The guy *needs* someone to argue with, he’s here for derailed threads. everywhere else he ‘s yawning, posting one liners and trolling on his own.

    #107 2 years ago