Lack of females in Colonial Marines leads to petition

@50 – I was tempted not to reply as you don’t seem to understand what Transgender is.

They are not a third gender. They are people born with a gender they don’t feel right with; for example a guy who feels he is a girl. He’d probably want to play a female avatar. Sometimes they go ahead and get sex changes.

Some trans don’t associate to any gender, if this is what you mean I can almost see your point, but the fact is they will still have a preference of some sort for how they appear in a game. If they verge more on the feminine side, tough I guess, cos they can only pick a male avatar.

All that aside, there are only TWO genders on this entire planet. Bringing sexual preference / sexuality into this conversation is illogical.

@51

Sorry I was just trolling. Your right, ideally you should have a choice, but hey ho, does it really matter? Your a faceless disembodied gun shooting at aliens.

Maybe they felt women had performed so poorly in the colony that they decided to cut them out of the military?

Trololol.

Nah, really, they should be in there. It may not be a big deal in principle, but there were female soldiers in three of the movies, so simply dismissing that for this one makes no sense.

@48 disagreed
Wouldn’t go that far to say 90%
Here are some of the female characters in videogame history:
Faith (mirrors edge), Lara Croft (Tomb Raider), Cate Archer (NOLF), Alice, Jill valentine (Resident Evil),Jade (Beyond good and evil), Chun li, Christie Monteiro (Tekken), Dreamfall, Syberia, Secret Files: Tunguska, Velvet Assassin, WET, Kitana, Farah, Princess Peach just to name a few…. i would find dozen of others when i think about it.

Is somebody consulting us male videogamers how we feel about it or if we can identify us with the avatars? NOPE

btw, i would love to see a female contract killer a la Hitman.

@54 Again, we’re discussing multiplayer, not single player where you usually have a set role/character in a set story.

Put it this way, can you name a multiplayer game where there isn’t a male avatar option?

@51 So by your logic, there should be also an option to include physically disabled characters, there are a lot of ‘em in the world, so we might as well cater to them. So what if someone who can’t physically hold a weapon (don’t even think about accusing me of saying women can’t wield weapon, this is *not* what I’m saying) won’t fit the story? WE MUST INCLUDE EVERYBODY. As someone else put earlier in the comments, why not allow child avatars in every game? I’m pretty sure children play videogames, must cater to that audience.

Get off your high horse, you’re *not* entitled to change a writer’s view on his/her story. This only happens in gaming because, for some reason, people think that just because videogames are also software and software welcomes feedback, they can tell game developers how to do their game. They can’t, or at least shouldn’t.

@55:
Put it this way, can you name a multiplayer game where there isn’t a male avatar option?
Skull Girls

This has nothing to do with design, its a performance thing.

Adding in a female character means you have to have the game calculate a whole new skeletal animation rig.

Thats a completely new fucking rig.

Its not just swap out a model.
________________________________

Aside from this, yeah what a fucking retarded oversight by them.

I’ll be honest and admit its not something that comes to mind when I think shooters but when I think Aliens…I think of a strong female lead. Kind of blown away that the game has no female characters.

Also as a side note, stop arguing about transgender and disabled people.

That conversation is so down right anti social and retarded I cant even believe people respond to those comments.

@57

You shouldn’t use the term retarded… It’s offensive, you should say ‘mentally challenged’

@55
e.g. pet feeding or tons of other flash games n serving, cooking and fashion =D

@55 Forza! I should be outraged there are no playable humans, right? Who do they think I am, A CAR?

Seriously, this isn’t sexist, and it’s no discrimination, or anything similar. It’s a god damn game. Stop making mountains out of molehills.

Been skulking on these forums for ages now, and honestly dissapointed by some of the expressed views.

People who can’t understand the difference between a gender, and a sexual preference. Or between a gender and an age. Or between a gender and some level of disability(?!) It just defies belief.

The two genders are completely different. Every single other thing mentioned can be either male or female, and as such these are all completely illogical points to raise.

If there were a third gender then that would be the ONLY valid argument when saying “wah next we’ll be asking for [a third gender!] to be included”.

Newsflash.. disabled, old, young, trans, gay, bi, straight people can be EITHER male or female. Why is it ok to only represent one in a game?

@61

Look, are you playing games to make a statement to other people or for personnal enjoyment? It shouldn’t matter what your avatar looks like as long as you are enjoying yourself.

Frankly I think the people complaining about this petition are the ones making the mountains. It’s a pretty reasonable request that the other 50% of the world’s population have some representation in the multiplayer, especially given the series’ heritage, yet people are jumping on it like it’s some personal insult.

If the inclusion of female characters is irrelevant to you then that’s fine, but why isn’t it left at that? Why is someone raising awareness about an issue that isn’t of interest to you such a personal affront? Do you walk up to charity workers in the street and scream at them if their cause isn’t directly applicable to you?

There’s zero reason to be so defensive.

@63

It’s not that, but boycotting a whole game you wanted to play just because you can’t play as your desired sex is a bit of an over reaction.

If its the gameplay you enjoy, this shouldn’t really be a deal breaker…

@61 Whenever I’m talking with the kind of people who think it’s sexist not to have females in games (people like you (who’ll never dare say it’s sexist not to have males)) they fail to tell me why it’s wrong to have only one gender. I gave you one example of what your line of thought seems to imply, and if I’m wrong, please do tell. I’m just saying no developer should have the moral responsibility to give *any* option in a game, and you’re telling me they should at least give the option of gender all the time. Why, then, do you think my proposal for extending it to choosing the age of your character, weight, height, etc is some kind of sad view of things? I’m a pragmatic person, I don’t dislike gender inequality, but please do tell me why for any reason is a developer’s obligation to add gender choice? And when you give me that reason, give me a reason why your line of thought shouldn’t be extended to age, weight, height, and any other customization option you can think of. Just give me a logical, objective reason so I can see your point. Until then I’ll say developers don’t have a single moral obligation other than to make a good game (and other stuff such as don’t be greedy and put day one DLC, but that’s my personal opinion).

Why stop at gender? What scientific evidence makes you think gender is where we should stop at? If, for some reason you get my point, you’ll notice either:

1) it was a design choice
2) just like we can’t, with today’s technology, have fully customizable avatar for every possible taste, preference, age, weight, height, body-piercing, hair color, tattoo, etc, we also can’t pump some more triangles to add a different character model. You said you’re making a game, you should know this.

Yes, let’s draw analogies between charity and computer entertainment. It’s just as important to represent your gender in a video game.

*headdesk*

Hardcore gamers detected.

I dont care about the moral implications at all, I`m just glad we`re past the time when videogames almost only appealled to the male gender.

Surely that`s a good thing ^^

Seems like a bad oversight. If they feel this is a strong title they could bring out some DLC down the line that adds a female into a new Single Player alternative campaign; thus making her available to MP as well.

PR just needs to say the female MP toons are coming but it’s part of a planned DLC rollout.

Or they could just add a female model to the MP roster. It’s not hard.

Can’t edit up there but, I meant “I don’t dislike gender equality”.

Those people just want rape mechanics in the game, it’s all about realism people, get with the times.
http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20120627/REVIEWS/120629975

@61 The irony is… people are arguing for a right to not have a stance. “Oh but this and this and this… so you shouldn’t complain about this, this and this.”

Since these people are part of (what I like to call) the Apathetic Generation, they believe that everyone should care as little about things as they do. It’s sad, really.

You’re stubborn, opinionated and absolutely batshit crazy at times, but I have to say I’ve definitely earned a shit-tonne of respect for your opinion after your posts in this topic.

@62 This kind of mentality of the embodiment of what I despise. Just because *you* don’t have to deal with gender equality problems every single step you take, doesn’t mean it isn’t relevant.

How many times does it has to be pointed out that Alien is a franchise applauded for its strong female characters? It’s complete lack of blatant sexism and character stereotyping is practically the benchmark for the entire Sci-Fi genre, and has influenced Sci-Fi in general to be an extremely feminist and anti-sexist genre. A metric fuckton of the Alien fanbase are women. Why she they be forced into a male avatar to represent then? Men are almost never forced into a female one.

——–

People can say you “don’t care” but seriously, don’t try to kid yourself that, if video games suddenly started including nothing but women, there wouldn’t be an uproar. Solely female character and solely female avatars. And not the ones with nice asses and huge breasts either, but ones dressed in proper clothes and fighting for their lives.

Suddenly people care about multiplayer avatars.

I must have missed all the discussions praising Rockstar for letting them play as girls in Max Payne 3.

I just wish be an oiled muscular man in my Atelier games. Fucking little girls everywhere, totally sexist.

@72 You’re confusing a multiplayer experience with a single player, character driven one.

Atelier is a horrible example anyway. It’s female characters are horribly contrived and sexist.

Suddenly Alien is a franchise about feminism that changed sci-fi completely (not).

Just forget about it, these people dodge arguments like Paybe dodges bullets. They’ll find any reason to say videogames (or any media for that matter) is full of patriarchal values targeted at white cis heterosexual males.

They’re the fundies of gaming and will *never* be pleased unless their agenda is met 101% of the time.

@74 The reason I haven’t replied is because I find the way you post overly aggressive. Maybe it’s the bold. Who knows. In either case I just get a huge feeling of cba.

But that aside the other reason is.. I’ve already said all I have to say regarding why I feel females must be included in MP. I can’t add to that and I won’t repeat myself needlessly. If you don’t agree then that’s ok.

@71 haha.. thanks.. I think

What if right, what if theres a multiplayer where you play as aliens right. So the aliens that you can play as are all female. The reproduce through psychic sex or something. All of them are female though, and you can never play a male one because they do not exist.

I’d try and show how theres a vast variety of both male and female character in the recent Atelier games but I would be mainly wasting my time so I won’t bother. Oh fuck no the apathy generation has got me.

@56 I will reply to this one though. You seem really angry. Surely I should be the angry one?

Most things you’re saying here again fit the single player mold. I’m not arguing about single player, at all. I’ve said that already.

A set story, characters and so on. I don’t particularly care which genders are involved. But bonus points if there are space dogs. And you’re right, I have no right to tell them how to make that single player experience, good job I never argued that point then really isn’t it!

That said, I’m sure there’d be a lot of pissed of people if the likes of Skyrim didn’t let you create a female. So it ultimately depends on the type of game as well, right?

Multiplayer isn’t story based, it’s player vs. player and it’s a lot more personal in many ways. You aren’t role playing some dude in some epic story to save a colony of pink fluff weasels from the evil count McHaddock, no, you are just you, with a gun, out to blow shit up. And you want to feel immersed.

Now I know some multiplayer has you selecting set avatars.. like ya know, Mario Kart, but again not really talking about that. And besides which.. wow! Female characters as an option!

As for child avatars, they don’t even let us kill the little fuckers in single player games, so can’t see them ever appearing in multiplayer. Shame.

By the way, you’re not saying they should put child avatars in, you’re saying they should put MALE child avatars in. I’m just trying to gently guide you back on topic here: gender, not age.

@77 Please reply to @65. That’s the million dollar question (which you avoided again). No, the bold isn’t used to imply I’m angry, just to put emphasis.
I don’t know why you assumed I was talking about single player; I wrote that post after you started saying that single player isn’t multiplayer, so that was taken into consideration.

This topic isn’t about age, but my question remains: why stop at age? What objective reasons do you have to say we should stop at gender?

If you don’t have any, just accept it’s technical limitations/design decisions or hell most probably marketing decisions, since males are still the most playing “hardcore” games.

I also don’t see where you got the idea I said they should put [male] child avatars in, I never specified gender.

no, you are just you, with a gun, out to blow shit up. And you want to feel immersed.

I guess that’s the difference between you and me, I never felt such an immersion from multiplayer games. When I play FPSs for example, it feels like a first person camera with a gun. That’s how I view any shooter (again, shooter is just an example). Sorry to disagree there I guess.

So, stay with me here, this game has asymmetrical multiplayer correct?

So one team of players is going to be controlling the Xenomorphs right?

(can you see where im going with this?)

@78 I already said everything I have to say on why I *feel* multiplayer games should include female avatars in post #44. That one sentence sums it up for me, I honestly can’t add any more, if it doesn’t convince you then nothing will.

Everything else, technical “limitations” and what not, are like I’ve said, excuses.

As for why stop at gender? You’re right, put that way it’s hard to argue. I’d like you to look at it the other way around, what if we continued to ignore the female populace and instead we did start looking at children (male only), disabled (male only) and old people (male only). Seeing the point? They should actually all be male or female. In including male AND female you automatically include every person on the planet.

Yes, you’ll get further *variation* in age and ability, but it’s not the same thing now is it. I’m sure a disabled/old/young girl would feel a lot more at home with a female avatar than a male one, aren’t you?

@79 Nooo they only have one queen. Nice try though.

@80 Your views are warped beyond belief. If you can’t enjoy a multiplayer game that does not include pixelated boobs, I’m not sure why you even bother playing games at all.

Yeah, it’s all about the boobs.. :p

@71

You trying to score points because I made you look like twat the other day o’conner?

I deal with sexism everyday at my work. I work in a job almost entirely dominated by women. It’s in the care industry which is still over stereotyped by matron like female roles.

Yes, this is bullshit because of the large amount of young males getting jobs in this sector, but unfortunatly that’s the rub…

Do I bitch about it, not really… Only when I hear people whining they cant make an avatar look exactly like them on a game…

Who gives a fuck, there is a lot more shit to worry about, these are first world problems… exactly like you said to that guy who was complaining about episode 3 on a different thread:

“you take games way too seriously…”

It’s just a game, it’s not sexist, get over it and stop being such a white knight…

Availability:

12/02/2013

Plenty of time to whip up some boobs in 3DSMax.

@80

So, are you going to buy the game or not?

Is it a protest if you don’t purchase?

Are you going to buy it but just be upset about not being able to play as your preferred character?

Are you going to boycott further games?

It’s more interesting finding out your reasonings to these questions rather than just complain about a feature that may not make it to the final cut…

@83
You absolutely nailed it!

@71 “Suddenly Alien is a franchise about feminism that changed sci-fi completely (not).”

Well, considering that it’s been applauded for that very fact for decades, I have no idea where I’d get that conclusion from…

“They’ll find any reason to say videogames (or any media for that matter) is full of patriarchal values targeted at white cis heterosexual males.”

You’d have to be living in some sort of giant bubble to believe otherwise.

@81 Brownie points?

wut?

So why is it okay for Ellen Ripley to be cornered like an animal by aliens and even impregnated by them, but not okay for Lara Croft to have her personal sphere invaded by some douche in the wilderness?

One is a feminist icon, and the other is sexually attractive. So she doesn’t qualify?

@87

It’s a direction, but this game is obviously not following it. It’s using The film and lore as background, not following the script to the tee…

For fuck sakes, there’s huge aliens who use battering rams on their heads… It’s nothing like the film, why can’t artistic licence spread to the multiplayer…

It’s a different canon, just like the colonial marine comics…

@88 That’s very easy to answer.

1) It never had any sort of overtly sexual, leering tone to it.

2) She was already a badass. It wasn’t used as an excuse to create some sort of superficial character growth. She simply dealt with the horrible circumstances set before her.

3) She was impregnated by a *female*. Anyway, the movie that created that plot element was terrible.

@88 1) That didn’t answer my question

2) I wasn’t aware that being misogynistic counted as “artistic license”.

@90

Have you recently had to attend awareness training at work?!

This is a non issue and you know it… Considering the real problems people face, this is bullshit. If you want to boycott a game because it doesn’t offer you exactly what you would like, that’s fine.

Petition, whatever, that’s your right.

If you try and turn it into some kind of feminist stance, that is bullshit my friend…

And you must know this, it’s always nice to have complete customisation of your avatar, it’s not always an option.

End of story!

@91 Sure, in the grander scheme of things, this is largely irrelevant. Then again, so are videos games. I guess we should stop playing them then, or talking about them. While we’re at it, let’s stop writing stories and creating music. What do they matter?

It’s pretty perplexing when people use the argument “it’s just a video game”. It’s like people expect so little from them as it is that they can’t even imagine the potential for more. That’s honestly kinda sad.

It’s easy to say its “not always an option” when *your* gender is the one always being represented. They’ve been developing the game for years. Female marines are a *huge* part of Alien lore. They have no fucking excuse.

Awareness training? What?

@92

People rarely take video games seriously as a medium because they never really bother to tackle serious issues well.

This is down to a lot of factors but generally;

graphics and realism. (can they display a scene well enough to move someone emotionally).

Acting, I.e. the quality of voice actors.

Interaction and physics.

Until these things increase dramatically, games and their plots are always going to fall more easily into “pulp” entertainment.

If you think people are inherently racist / sexist / whatever, just because you don’t feel they empathise with a particular view, you yourself are exposing a huge flaw in the way you view the world and people you assume you “empathise” with…

Until you know the full story regarding the devs decisions not to include female avatars and expose their sexist ways, would you kindly shut up?

@90 So women aren’t allowed to be approached sexually by males in fiction? There’s an attempted rape in the third movie, and instead of handling it herself, she’s saved by a big strong man.

No matter which way you look at it, it’s a lot less serious to have a guy rub up against you, than an alien actually filling your uterus with seed.

Indeed, she dealt with the circumstances before her. Just like Lara does when the guy gets too close.

The thing that made the original Aliens so exciting was Ripleys very feminine vulnerability in the face of what’s going on around her. She may be a marine, but she’s broken by the time we’re at the second movie, and she doesn’t really recover until the fourth, at which point she’s actually a clone.

So why the double standard?

@94 There’s a reason people hate the third movie, Peter, and that is why. It ruined her character. Weaver practically had to be begged to appear in the third film, because she was so disappointed by the removal of a lot of character development focused footage in the second.

There isn’t a fan alive who likes the fourth. Clones? Really? Fuck off.

Like you said, there is a reason it worked in the first, and it’s that movie that character is commended for. I’m not going to ignore the strength of the first one just because other writers made her suck in the later films.

The problem with Lara is that they start off portraying her in this horribly contrived girly girly fashion. She’s feeble, weak, and then she has this “magic moment” of revelation that turns her into a survival expert and a masterful killer. Human psychology doesn’t work like that.

Rape and assault *can* be done if done well. The *problem* is that it’s a completely contrived plot device that is rarely, if ever, given the serious pathos it’s deserves. We’ve already been over this. I’m so fucking jaded and tired regarding the whole Lara topic at this point, honestly.

@95 Wait what? When did she say that?

She was a producer on Alien 3 as well as Resurrection, and the only statement on the matter I could find was a recent interview in which she said “I’m very proud of our four movies and I wish him all the best with it” when speaking about Prometheus.

And this: “I could definitely kick that alien’s ass again. [Ripley]‘s a smart hero, it’s the way she thinks, but just looking at the way the business is…”

Doesn’t make it sound like she has to be dragged at all.

I think she was the biggest badass in Resurrection, personally. I don’t mind that movie at all.

So there was nothing at all sexual in the relationship between the big walking black HR Giger penis monster and Ripley.

ALRIGHTY THEN.

If you take out the last 7 or 8 minutes of Alien 4 it`s actually quite good IMHO.

Alien 3 is the worst by far:
http://filmonic.com/art-v-commerce-david-finchers-alien-3-nightmare

(unless Aliens VS. Predator counts as well, the original comics are great, but then Hollywood happended – turning them into generic Hollywood rubbish)

I`d argue Princess Leia was the first “tough bitch” in Sci Fi ^^

I`ll crawl back under my rock again ^^

@96 Because that doesn’t sound like a generic byline at all.

@98 And then stuck her in a metal bikini. Leia might have had an attitude, but that still didn’t stop her from being a damsel in distress, love interest and eye candy.

@99 A generic byline that she obviously agreed to. Twice.