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Miyamoto: Console design not just “a power competition”

Thursday, 21st June 2012 00:18 GMT By Brenna Hillier

Nintendo creative powerhouse Shigeru Miyamoto has dismissed concerns the next generation of PlayStation and Xbox consoles will leave the Wii U looking under-powered.

Although Nintendo has refused to reveal the Wii U’s specifications, while speaking to IGN Miyamoto said it doesn’t matter; the Wii U can do what it needs to do.

“In today’s living room, where there are a lot of HDTVs, but they’re not yet mostly 3D TVs, I think the console is certainly adequately powerful to create gaming experiences that will look really good on those displays,” he said.

“But whenever we talk about who’s winning in a power competition, I think it’s easy to lose sight of whether a game is fun or not. Which is certainly going to be more important to me.”

Miyamoto said Nintendo’s job is to make sure it offers the best possible experience to users and developers at a reasonable cost.

“The cost to performance ratio is something we do spend a lot of time thinking about,” he said.

“If the conversation is only really about whether the power is going to match up to another generation of hardware from, say, Sony or Microsoft, I can’t answer that question yet. [Wii U] might not be as powerful as those systems when they eventually do come around.

“But I think that the more important question is – It’s not just about power alone, but how to balance what you’re offering in terms of power with cost.”

The Wii U is yet to be dated and priced. Crytek boss Cevat Yerli has hinted that the new console is on level with current generation standards.

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111 Comments

  1. YoungZer0

    I wonder on which console Mario is going to appear first, PS4 or XBox720. Hm. Probably PS4.

    #1 3 years ago
  2. TMRNetShark

    I think Nintendo isn’t getting the point. Hardcore gamers aren’t going to buy something again for a system that’s gonna likely be $400. I don’t want to buy a WiiU just to play Mass Effect 3 with a less cluttered screen (thus, me leaving my eyes off the screen to see where I’m going because the map in there). Most households today who are buying $300-$600 home consoles likely don’t have just ONE TV too (justification for the screen if someone is watching TV when you want to play a game).

    The next generations of consoles will likely bring us a new experience… playing video games and chatting with people who are also playing other games. The power hardware will be able to do that… along with the support of UNIQUE and NEW IPs.

    I will say, ZombieU seems cool!

    #2 3 years ago
  3. dtyk

    Japan definitely has the strongest weed. This guy is smoking it.

    #3 3 years ago
  4. absolutezero

    “The next generations of consoles will likely bring us a new experience… playing video games and chatting with people who are also playing other games. The power hardware will be able to do that… along with the support of UNIQUE and NEW IPs. ”

    what.

    #4 3 years ago
  5. dtyk

    ^^^^^ +1

    #5 3 years ago
  6. stretch215

    @2 ” playing video games and chatting with people who are also playing other games.” You mean like cross game chat on xbl?

    #6 3 years ago
  7. MegaGeek1

    Tell that to 28 year old gamers like me who have careers and money set aside for their hobbies. I am NOT interested in paying for a console that has the same tech as the 5 year old PS3 I’m playing now. Bring the next gen tech and I will pay for it!

    #7 3 years ago
  8. Ireland Michael

    @7 I don’t understand this at all.

    “I have jobs, responsibilities and limited money, so give me the most expensive technology possible instead of something cheaper and reliable, that can still manage perfectly good games.”

    I’ll take quality over quantity any day.

    #8 3 years ago
  9. JB

    Lol @2 – no – you`re not getting it at all ^^.

    Nintendo don`t give a fuck about hardcore players, in fact – the majority of developers dont give a fuck about hardcore players, they might say that they do – but they really don`t.

    There`s simply not enough hardcore gamers around, it`s just a case of numbers, which you seem to like, so here`s a few more numbers for you:

    “Japan’s third most valuable listed company, with a market value of over US$ 85 billion”

    ” As of October 18, 2010, Nintendo has sold over 565 million hardware units and 3.4 billion software units”

    Not bad for some clueless smoking monkies, who doesn`t make MMO`s, Teen-angst/macho FPS´s or cares too much for technicolor realism – yes ?

    All taken from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nintendo

    More numbers here:
    http://www.nintendo.com/corp/annual_report.jsp

    #9 3 years ago
  10. Dragon246

    @9,
    “Japan’s third most valuable listed company, with a market value of over US$ 85 billion”
    Thats 2007, not 2012.
    Also market capitalisation is what can be called virtual money. Its not hard cash.Also they are no where near sony or ms in terms of revenues and sales.
    Miyamoto: Console design not just “a power competition”
    Then why dont you reveal wii u tech specs. It is not about power competition after all.

    #10 3 years ago
  11. Dannybuoy

    Ultimately people will buy what they want to buy and all the talk in the world won’t change that

    #11 3 years ago
  12. JB

    @10 you`re not seeing the forest for the trees.

    Analysts have predicted Nintendo`s downfall for at least a decade now and they´re still predicting it today and they`ll probably still predict it in 10 years time.

    #12 3 years ago
  13. Dragon246

    @12,
    In corporate world, there are ups and downs. Ninty has also lost value since 5 years ago, but that does not mean they will shut down. No one can predict closure unless the company is in deep troubles like game and thq.

    #13 3 years ago
  14. Telepathic.Geometry

    I agree with Shiggy to a point, but I suspect that Ninty DON’T have enough power, as they need enough beef to produce Uncharted quality fidelity on an HDTV AND potentially be rendering for two tablet controllers at the same time. From what Digital Foundry had to say, they may not even have enough oompf to deal with just the one tablet controller for especially graphically intensive games. :(

    #14 3 years ago
  15. polygem

    some will just never get it. nintendo is different. i know people do not like to hear it but…y´know…it is true. you cannot really compare em to 360 or sony. the nintendo ip´s are extremeley strong franchises almost as iconic as the disney ones. they also sell well. that is something ms and sony are still dreaming about. it is a great achievement. nintendo takes care of their franchises. they might bring a mario game after another but they are all very very different. same can be said about kirby, zelda, metroid. you name it.
    i am so sick about this tech dick waving. imho wiiu is a huge step for nintendo into hd. the specs for the wiiu seem to be good enough for the next 6 years or so. the nintendo games do not need that impressive specs to be awesome. the power of a current 360 would be more thanm enough to create some great, awesome looking nintendo first party games! they do not concentrate on graphics but gameplay AND artdesign. that´s the mix that makes a good game. third party is an issue but that wont matter that much to nintendo. the casual will be happy with what´s on offer – the harcore gamer has a x720, ps4 too anyway…
    nintendo doesn´t need uncharted. i do not need a game like this on the wiiu. i´ll buy the ps4 for that.
    that is why it is not a power competiton – he´s right. sales will prolly prove him right too.

    #15 3 years ago
  16. Telepathic.Geometry

    @polygem: I hope you’re right, I really do. But I see Nintendo in seriously dire straits. When the Wii came out, I saw the value in motion controls when everybody was screaming DOOM! But now, I really can’t see or understand the added value of the tablet controller. The inclusion of support for a regular controller in every game must surely be a disincentive for devs to even bother building a game around a feature that you must also support the absence of.

    Also, unlike with Wii Sports and the wii remote, the Wii U is really suffering a crisis of identity. Many networks don’t even realise that it is a new console and not a new peripheral.

    Most of the games I have seen seem to work just fine with out the screen. I would really love to need to get a Wii U, to get my hands on Pikmin 3 if nothing else, but even that is blatantly a Wii game that has been retooled (apparently) for Wii U.

    We’re in a scary new age for gaming devs and console makers. Even Nintendo, traditionally profitable, has gotten burnt. I foresee dark times ahead for Ninty…

    #16 3 years ago
  17. polygem

    i am more positive about it. i think the new controller is enough to make the so called casual excited enoguh to invest in a new console. have you seen that ninja demo, where you use the tablet to throw the ninja blades. then there was chase mii and stuff like that. i think ninty will come up with lots of stuff like this which is always good for mainstream marketing. then there will be hardcore HD zelda games too. i can really see the tablet working fine for some zelda features, HD mario and so on.
    it is also good as a corporate design, comparing it to the 3ds. dualscreen gaming. you can use that for marketing. it will work or at least has potential. you know -i for one think it is fantastic that i can continue playing mario u after switching out my telly and relax on the couch while continue playing the game on the tablet. good stuff. gaming is a tough business, now probably more than ever, but tbh. i see nintendo on the winning side of this. pricing is key though.

    #17 3 years ago
  18. Joe Musashi

    @15 ..some will just never get it. nintendo is different. i know people do not like to hear it but…y´know…it is true..

    That’s fine. But “different” doesn’t automatically mean “better”.

    The impression I get from Nintendo over the last 5-7 years is they are being different for the sake of being different. Re-inventing the wheel, claiming it as innovation, implying their vision is the one that makes meaningful change. Look at their approach to on-line for example. It’s different, but few would argue it will be better.

    Also, we hear a huge amount of double talk from Nintendo at the moment. “We’re not going to compete with Sony and Microsoft for game” and then how they’re going out of their way to entice 3rd party developers that develop for those competing platforms. “It’s not about power” – if so, why are you adding extra power to your new console?

    I think the Wii has shown that motion controls were not the magic bullet solution they were evangelised as. Far more misses than hits came out of that different approach.

    The problem with selling Snake Oil a second time is that that when you tell people you have new and improved Snake Oil, they’re a lot more wary of your sales pitch.

    JM

    #18 3 years ago
  19. Gheritt White

    All the gimmicks Nintendo have for the Wii U will also be present in the X720 and PS4, plus each of those will have their own unique features.

    #19 3 years ago
  20. daytripper

    @11 well said

    #20 3 years ago
  21. polygem

    Q18: i agree with the online but i cannot see double talk. sure they wanted a more powerful console to finally join HD but they are not into the battle for the best specs.

    @19: but they wont have nintendo games ;-)

    #21 3 years ago
  22. Fin

    The biggest issue, by far, with the Wii U’s lack of power will be the lack of cross-platform development from third parties. The next Xbox and PS will probably be of fairly equal power (as they were this generation), so games will be relatively easy to be develop in tandem.

    The Wii U is going to be a current gen system when the next-gen arrives. Companies won’t be able to develop a game with experience (graphical, whatever) parity across all three systems due to Wii U’s lack of power, which will mean it’ll be relgated to B-team developers and games – why put your A-team on a game that can only be sold to a third of the market, rather than put the A-team on a game that’ll sell to two-thirds, the B-team making a port for the final third.

    Nintendo mightn’t need the power themselves, but they don’t care what’s going on on other platforms, it’s supremely arrogant to think nobody else does.

    A game system cannot survive with only first-party support.

    #22 3 years ago
  23. Gadzooks!

    Polygem seems to be the only one that understands the Nintendo situation.

    Ninty don’t make consoles for whining forumite techwhore brats. They make consoles for the gaming public, and the gaming public love Nintendo games. End of story.

    #23 3 years ago
  24. OrbitMonkey

    The guys right, but the problem here is that the Wii offered a experience different enough that its lack of tech didn’t matter.

    The WiiU is not different enough. Its the same console as the other 2, but with a big tablet controller…. Which should really just be called a screen pad or something as its real functionality is so basic.

    #24 3 years ago
  25. ManuOtaku

    I agree with him, and previous generations prove this, the winner of each generation wasnt based on power alone, and if i dare to say the last three winners were the less powerfull graphical speaking, they were based on an overall package, from easy to develop for, accesible physical media, price point,great catalog of games, added new features etc, therefore i do agree with him is not just a matter of power, is a lot of other things as well, and of course fun games, and a good correlation between power and price.

    Also i agree that now is when the adoption rate for HD tv is getting almost total disruption on homes, therefore now is the right time to go with HD console, i think this was one of the factors for the wii success, that the adoption rate of HD tv, was very slow from 2005-2010, since then it became a norm on households, and then is when the other two consoles started to increase sales, i wonder the correlation in that.

    #25 3 years ago
  26. Gheritt White

    @ 21: Nintendo games mainly appeal to children – their post-PlayStation strategy has been to own the thirteen and under market and let a competing platform service “adults”/grown-ups. However, most kids these days didn’t grow up with Mario or Zelda and are far more interested in smartphones and online social networks. I’m therefore unconvinced this strategy will for an additional gen, especially when both Sony and Microsoft are eager to own the “family” audience as well and service it with appropriate interactive devices.

    Additionally, I’m not convinced the general public “love Nintendo games”. Maybe at the beginning of the current gen, but things have changed significantly since then.

    Everything is converging – there’s a big race on between Apple, Sony and Microsoft to own the “box under your telly” that handles all your entertainment needs. Ultimately, Nintendo’s failure to get to grips with online and its desire to keep their console as just a toy will be their downfall. I just don’t see them in the console business after 2020.

    #26 3 years ago
  27. Telepathic.Geometry

    As a lover of Nintendo games and consoles over the years, I can honestly say that I hate listening to forumites bashing Nintendo just for the sake of it. But I also think that Nintendo fans are too quick to disengage from reasonable debate with skeptics by pulling the “You just don’t get it” card.

    Here’s what I get, Nintendo is a business the primary focus of which has been fleecing customers with over-priced hardware (3DS and Wii) and countless regurgitations of old IP. Just how many times have Nintendo resold us the same games, repackaged?

    On the flipside, they always come up with some genius games, every generation. Excite Truck, Metroid Prime, Geometry Wars Galaxies (YES it’s the best version), Kirby’s Epic Yarn, Donkey Kong Returns, Wii Sports and Biohazard 4 avec Wii controls, all sublime gaming experiences. And I really respect their maverick spirit to just say, fuck it, we’re going for motion controls now. The balls on them, ya have to love it.

    However, here’s the problem:

    I’m not a FPS lover especially, unless it has something special in the mix, like Bioshock or Deus Ex or something. Neither do I like sports or racing sims. So in the past, Nintendo has always been able to outshine its competition with its own stable of 1st and 2nd party offerings. Sure, the competition had their Halos and their ICOs, but Nintendo gems always seemed to outnumber them for me.

    But now, look what Ninty has missed out on this gen: Bioshock, Dead Space 1/2, Lords of Shadow, Dark Souls, Witcher 2, Borderlands, Deus Ex, Mass Effect 2/3, Vanquish, Skyrim, Fallout 3, Batman Arkham Asylum/City, Portal 2 and if we get into the downloadable games, I could easily double that list, ALL must-have games.

    Ninty as a dev is great, and as a console dev, they certainly do things that nobody else would think of or have the ballsack to do, and for that I love them. But look at the games that mindset makes impossible…

    #27 3 years ago
  28. Telepathic.Geometry

    Sorry for the wall-o-text by the way…

    #28 3 years ago
  29. absolutezero

    “However, most kinds these days didn’t grow up wuith Mario or Zelda and are far more interested in smartphones and online social networks.”

    What happened to all those Wii’s then? Who the fuck bought them?

    Core Nintendo titles have just as much of a market as they ever did.

    #29 3 years ago
  30. Gheritt White

    “What happened to all those Wii’s then?” They’re lying unused in people’s lofts. The PS3 and X360 have been outselling the Wii for a while now.

    Super Mario 3D Land and Zelda: Skyward Sword did sell very well, true – but if their hardware doesn’t gain traction, you’re looking at a fraction of those numbers anyway.

    Btw, I’m not against Nintendo, I just don’t think they’re as disruptive an influence as they used to be. The popularity of their motion controls took everyone by surprise (much like the N64′s analogue stick), but I’m pretty certain that a touch-screen device won’t have the same impact, * especially* when (a) it’s not original and (b) MS and Sony will be doing the same plus more.

    #30 3 years ago
  31. G1GAHURTZ

    I agree, it’s not all about tech power.

    However, if you think that “fun” gaming doesn’t involve a top quality online system, you don’t know the meaning of the word.

    #31 3 years ago
  32. ManuOtaku

    #31 mario kart wii and monster hunter tri, were fun in the online aspect too, i think they can do good things online,albeit with some restrictions, that in my eyes like i said is a good thing, for the reasons stated in my above comment.
    #30 “The popularity of their motion controls took everyone by surprise (much like the N64′s analogue stick), but I’m pretty certain that a touch-screen device won’t have the same impact, * especially* when (a) it’s not original and (b) MS and Sony will be doing the same plus more”

    The thing is nintendo is the first one doing it with all the components need it on the box, and it might have a price advantadge, both sony and microsoft are working with an external help like vita and tablets, for that they can have the same impact, also theres tech in the game pad that is not available on the vita and tablets at the moment.

    “Super Mario 3D Land and Zelda: Skyward Sword did sell very well, true – but if their hardware doesn’t gain traction, you’re looking at a fraction of those numbers anyway”

    Is true but nintendo tittles keep selling from years to come without any decrease in the price, therefore you can say that they keep the traction between hardware and software, even till this day the wii is managing decent sell numbers, especially on christmas.

    #32 3 years ago
  33. absolutezero

    I guess I better go throw my PS2, Xbox, Dreamcast and every other console from before this generation in the bin then. No fun apparently. What were we thinking buying those things at the time with no internet. I mean really good lord.

    This is compeltely anecdotal but both of my Nephew’s have the Wii and one has a 3DS. On which he pretty much exclusively plays Mario. I know its hard to imagine a different generation enjoying Mario and Nintendo games when everyone else has moved onto far more mature games for mature gamers such as themselves.

    #33 3 years ago
  34. G1GAHURTZ

    ^ Why bother upgrading then?

    Sure, lets all play 20 year old 8-bit games, because they’re just as good as current gen ones, eh?

    #34 3 years ago
  35. Dragon246

    @32,
    “mario kart wii and monster hunter tri, were fun in the online aspect too”
    And…just 2 games.
    PS3 and 360 offers online experiences miles ahead of what even “next-gen (7.1)” wii u to offer and for each game you mentioned ,ps3 and 360 has dozens of games with better mulltiplayer.
    Ninty has surely gone into la la land after wii.
    http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-06-20-nintendo-wii-u-could-become-preferred-call-of-duty-platform
    Really? First saying “we are not competing with sony or ms for exclusives” and now this.
    Novelty and usability that wii had for casual gamers in nowhere seen in wiiu. Wii was a one time jackpot(in tapping casual market)and as said – lightning does not strike twice.
    Nintendo fans will buy it, but it will not attract any consumers of ps3 and 360 and will lose a substantial part of wiis casual market (which were more interested in wii sports than mario).

    #35 3 years ago
  36. G1GAHURTZ

    LOOOOOOL!!

    WiiU the preferred CoD platform!?

    They must’ve had a few of Mario’s magic mushrooms too many…

    Why in the world would I want a map down by my hands, when I can have it in my peripheral vision on the screen?

    #36 3 years ago
  37. ManuOtaku

    #35, I mentioned those games because for something to get better you first need to do the first and proper steps in order to do so, you dont improve in an instant, thats why i did mentioned those two only games, becuase they are good on the online aspect, even if they are only two, they are great, and a good sing of things to come, of course Microsoft, and to a lesser extent sony are far away, but nintendo in their way, are taking the steps to come closer.

    I think they are following the natural evolution of the gamers, the one that started as casuals this gen, will become more avid with time, and i think thats the reason they are trying to capture both again, to have a healthy income of casuals within time, while pleasing the now avid gamers, it is a great move IMHO.

    #37 3 years ago
  38. absolutezero

    Newer =/= better.

    It never has, in any field of entertainment or media. I thought you might have noticed that. New consoles bring with them a raft of new games and new experiences, those new games are intrinsically better because they are new.

    I feel somewhat sorry for anyone that solely plays on the newest consoles and nothing else. Playing older games is part of a healthy diet.

    #38 3 years ago
  39. Dragon246

    @37,
    Problem is when ninty reaches present day levels , who knows where sony and ms will be. They are too not sitting idle.

    #39 3 years ago
  40. OlderGamer

    Same old people saying the same old things. Round and round it goes.

    Read, I mean actualy read what he said. Let me help:

    “But whenever we talk about who’s winning in a power competition, I think it’s easy to lose sight of whether a game is fun or not. Which is certainly going to be more important to me.”

    Can anyone actualy argue against this? The only grey area, and it is a big one, is who gets to define the word “fun”? It also implys that the best looking graphical games can’t be fun. Of course that isn’t true, anymore then if a game has amazing graphics, it is automaticly fun. It doesn’t work like that in either direction. And it boils down to fun being defined by the person buying/playing the game. And Nintendo sell a lot of games, so must be a lot of people think they are fun.

    Next:

    “The cost to performance ratio is something we do spend a lot of time thinking about,”

    Please argue that one too. Tell me that 600usd+ console prices are a good thing. Lets hear you defend 80usd, 100usd game prices. Subscription fees. DLC. Dev studios closing because selling 3million copies isn’t enough for them to break even.

    Ok, just incase you didn’t understand it:

    “But I think that the more important question is – It’s not just about power alone, but how to balance what you’re offering in terms of power with cost.”

    I agree 100% with what he has said. But of course if all you guys wanna do is bitch and call for the end of Nintendo everytime there is going to be a WiiU thread, then it is going to be a long summer and fall. Of course if the the threads keep filling up with posts, VG247 is going to keep sticking them out there. But whatever.

    Lastly, I am going to ask:

    Would the world, the gameindustry, or your life really be any better if Nintendo(or Sony or MS) stoped making games? If you already don’t enjoy, buy, or play them, what is the difference going to be for you?

    Live and let live people. Enjoy what you do, and leave the trolling to the trolls.

    #40 3 years ago
  41. OlderGamer

    Also for crist sake who gets to decide that online gaming is the end all and be all of gaming bliss? The millions of gamers that play online or the equally millions of gamers that put more Nintendo games (then any other company) in the top ten software sales for this entire generation?

    I haven’t played a console game online in prolly two years. I don’t miss it one bit.

    #41 3 years ago
  42. stretch215

    Man, I grew up w/ Nintendo! I used to love their games! That being said, I haven’t even thought about them this Gen. I’m interested in the wii-u, but mainly for my kids. I’d rather have a system with more “mature” games.

    #42 3 years ago
  43. Telepathic.Geometry

    Arguing on the internet really is just a complete fucking waste of time init…

    #43 3 years ago
  44. OlderGamer

    lol @TG yeah kind of is and is getting old.

    Thats why I play on PC stretch.

    #44 3 years ago
  45. G1GAHURTZ

    ^ Yeah, but you play ‘online’ games on PC, right?

    #45 3 years ago
  46. ManuOtaku

    #39 Yeah like always connected, more DRM,more social applications, and more TV on a game console, all things are in detriment of games in my eyes, therefore i believe the gap will be not that big again, they are focusing on other things, that are not that relevant with gaming, at least gaming is not the main focus anymore.
    p.s the funny thing is in that regard the casual nintendo is going the more “hardocre” route, while the hardcore are going the casual/social route.

    #46 3 years ago
  47. Gheritt White

    @#32 ManuOtaku: The next gen pads for X720 will have a touch-screen built into them too. Dunno about PS4.

    #47 3 years ago
  48. polygem

    @26: “Nintendo games mainly appeal to children”

    that´s just a myth! who the hell is believing this. it is absoluteley -totally BULLSHIT. nintendo games are for everyone.

    gears and halo and killzone are for kids man…do you feel “mature” playing those games? i mean i like those games and i even LOVE halo but it definiteley is stuff made for teenagers. i can still enjoy them though…but i definiteley do not feel like playing a “mature” game. i don´t know what that term means anyway. it is a freakin´game. a videogame. must this be mature or fun. i´d say fun, engaging, creative, interesting, challenging….but mature? pffff

    #48 3 years ago
  49. ManuOtaku

    #47 i meant the NFC, but i wasnt mentioning the next console per se, i was basing it for what it is available right now, when the wiiU launchs, there is smartglass, and vita right now, and both are different, and it will not do the same things as the game pad, with the future consoles that will change i know, but nintendo was the first in doing it at least it will be the first, with all the things needed in the box and affordable price, if rumours are true, of course, and for that they have and advantage in consumers eyes.

    #49 3 years ago
  50. ManuOtaku

    #48 Poly if i may add getting all the starts in a mario game, and getting all the trophys on a mario kart game, is hardcore as it gets, not that many children are capable of those feats, only the avid gamer can do that, the thing is the kids or the casuals can enjoy those games, but the avid gamer will see the shine of those games, with the sheer dificult and brilliant design in them.

    #50 3 years ago
  51. Gheritt White

    @ 48 & 50: I’m not making a value judgement on their quality, I’m talking about intended audience.

    if you don’t think that Nintendo prioritises younger players above older teens and adults as their core audience then I’m afraid it’s you that needs to readjust your beliefs.

    #51 3 years ago
  52. polygem

    @50. ´xactly. those games are designed so well that everyone can enjoy them. the more you play the more you can get outta them.

    some zelda and metroid games i have played definitely were the most “hardcore” games ever. they are fun and challenging. the water temple in ocarina of time melted my brain even in my second playthrough. same goes for metroid prime corruption. those games are hardcore.
    the later ……SPOILER———————luigi levels in super mario 3d land are hardcore. those games aren´t for kids. they are for everyone. that´s one of the reasons nintendo games sell so well.
    i sell a lot of my games after i played them. i only keep the ones i truly loved or the ones i play online. with nintendo games this is different. you can play them over and over again. that´s why people love and keep them. 360 and ps3 games all need multiplayer now so people wont trade in their games. nintendo not so much. hmmmm…

    #52 3 years ago
  53. polygem

    @ 51: it isn´t the case. sorry. kids, teens, adults and even elderly buy and enjoy those games. i really cannot see what you mean. i can see a very very mature (if you will) game in a mario galaxy.

    #53 3 years ago
  54. Gheritt White

    The thing is, you can tell by their games’ age ratings. Nintendo do not make M rated games. Admittedly, M rated games make up a tiny fraction of the industry, but the fact that they don’t have *any* speaks volumes.

    Again, not talking about quality – quality is subjective, anyway.

    Also, I’m talking about who buys them – again, that’s personal choice – I’m talking about Nintendo’s intended targets. When a games company say they make games for “everyone”, they mean they don’t want to exclude anybody – which inevitably leads to a focus on younger gamers (and potentially families too) as a basis for common reference points.

    IMHO, the closest you get to a truly universal game is SimCity.

    #54 3 years ago
  55. polygem

    i just recently was in a gamestop shop: i heard the guy working there giving advice to a mom. he recommended skyward sword for her 10 yo son…said the same stuff, like these games are for kids blabla. i played skyward sword. some puzzles are tough in this game, you have to be patient. most kids arent´patient anymore these days. i told the guy that i wouldn´t have recommend this game for an average 10 yo. man he was pissed.he said, all the nintendo games are for kids….well well well….start playing their games first, i´d say.

    #55 3 years ago
  56. ManuOtaku

    #51 with all due respect, I know is a bit silly what iam about to say, but according to your logic if the game is E for everyone, that only means kids will enjoy it, and then why the child clasification do exist for?, i think most of nintendo games are for all ages, including kids, and also the inner kids of old folks, thats why they do earn the E for, although those clasifications do apply to content, one can also said that indicates their intended audience, right.

    #56 3 years ago
  57. polygem

    M games just means more violence in most cases. if that makes an experience more mature in your opinion, then -ok. in most cases it makes the experience just more premature though imho
    ;-)

    #57 3 years ago
  58. Gheritt White

    I’m not talking about quality! I’m talking about actuals. M doesn’t necessarily mean better, but it does mean that the dev has an adult audience in mind. I’m certainly not saying the E rated games can’t be hardcore, or that M rated games (Heavy Rain, for example) can’t be casual.

    I’m just saying that Nintendo historically tends to focus their output on younger audiences (and, this gen, families).

    #58 3 years ago
  59. Fin

    Original/exclusive mature games released on Wii to date:

    Mad World
    House of the Dead: Overkill
    No More Heroes

    *crickets*

    The only Nintendo-published game I can think of that was remotely adult was Eternal Darkness (which was a fucking AWESOME game).

    #59 3 years ago
  60. DrDamn

    Miyamoto wrote: “The cost to performance ratio is something we do spend a lot of time thinking about,”

    OG wrote: Please argue that one too. Tell me that 600usd+ console prices are a good thing. Lets hear you defend 80usd, 100usd game prices. Subscription fees. DLC. Dev studios closing because selling 3million copies isn’t enough for them to break even.

    He’s talking purely hardware there – not software. But rarely reducing game prices is a good thing too isn’t it? And selling two versions of the same game with minor differences is a good thing (Pokemon)? Also if the games are that much cheaper to develop and sell that much more shouldn’t they be cheaper?

    What I’m getting at is that this choice you are making out to be something Nintendo do out of the goodness of their hearts for the good of the consumer. No, they do it because they find it to be the best business model for them.

    It’s not black and white. The choices they make suit them and their consumers. The choices Sony and Microsoft make are designed to do the same thing. There is no wrong or right approach, they are just different.

    #60 3 years ago
  61. Gheritt White

    @ 59: How many of them were made by Nintendo? That’s right, none.

    Please try to remain on-topic. I’m not trolling nor flaming – I do not want to see the death of Nintendo. I just think their strategy hasn’t evolved since the turn of the century and that they run the risk of being short-sighted in terms of audience with the Wii U.

    EDIT: You know what, fuck this. This was a pleasant discussion and now it’s turning into an argument.

    Fucking platform fanboys – GAH!

    #61 3 years ago
  62. Fin

    @61

    Eh? I was agreeing with you. There’s only been four M-rated games released in the Wii’s lifetime. If that doesn’t show it skews towards a younger audience, I don’t know what does.

    #62 3 years ago
  63. ManuOtaku

    #59 you forgot the silent hill first game adaptation on wii, Resident Evil: The Umbrella Chronicles (WII), Call of Duty: Modern Warfare: Reflex Edition (WII),Dead Rising: Chop Till You Drop (WII), no more heroes 2 red steel 1&2, the manhunt 2 game, Escape from Bug Island, Target Terror although some of them were not exclusive games, but they are a lot of games with M rated on wii too.

    And besides most of the Mature rated games are for blood and gore alone, a very few for suggesting themes or strong ones, that in my eyes is more mature that only blood and gore, then if sony and microsoft are so mature why there is not that many AO games?, because in the end like in all consoles, children is what do play the most on this devices, it will hurt them as a business stand point of view, ot have a lot of AO games.

    #63 3 years ago
  64. DrDamn

    @62
    There have been a few …
    http://www.gamefaqs.com/search/index.html?platform=1031&game=&contrib=0&genre=0&region=0&date=0&rating=5&developer=&publisher=&dist=0&sort=0&link=0&res=0&title=0&adv=1

    But do the same search for the 360 and you only get to B on the first page.

    #64 3 years ago
  65. polygem

    @61 :-)
    hehe yeh sometimes this forum thingy gets it´s own life…it would be much better to discuss this face to face. in a forum you are trying to break it down to a few key words to make yourself clear. and then there´s the danger of starting to talk in absolutes. i am having this problem all the time…then it becomes hard work.
    i know you´re not trolling and neither am i a fanboy. not at all. but same here. it´s going in circles. let´s stop it and agree upon: different games for different tastes…kind of like the last part of #60´s post.

    #65 3 years ago
  66. G1GAHURTZ

    IYAM, Nintendo dropped out of the older gaming scene after the Gamecube failed.

    They realised that they couldn’t compete with the PS1/PS2, so they just gave up and focussed on the younger audience that they always had done.

    Don’t forget that adult gaming is a very new thing.

    In the days of the NES and the SNES, gaming was for kids.

    It’s only when the PS1 came along with games like Wipeout, Gran Turismo and Tekken that it became more socially acceptable for adults to spend their spare time playing games.

    Again, Nintendo decided that that was Sony’s market, and they ignored it. They did try with the Gamecube, but IMO, it was it’s lack of a DVD player that meant that the older buyers stuck with Sony.

    That’s why they don’t do any adult first party games.

    To be fair, it totally worked out for them up until recently. Sony and MS were so busy fighting for the old 100m PS2 gamers that they completely neglected the kids and the older generations.

    That’s where Nintendo stepped in and cleaned up with the Wii sales.

    I don’t think that there’s any disputing that Nintendo focus on kids, though…

    #66 3 years ago
  67. ManuOtaku

    #66 “Again, Nintendo decided that that was Sony’s market, and they ignored it. They did try with the Gamecube, but IMO, it was it’s lack of a DVD player that meant that the older buyers stuck with Sony”

    I got you, so we agree that is not only power then, theres a lot of other factors as well which determinate the winner of a gen, and for the record thats why i do agree with Miyamoto statement in this post.

    #67 3 years ago
  68. DrDamn

    @66
    I was just thinking similar but from the other perspective. Yes Sony and MS would love big sales numbers, but they can’t compete in that market with Nintendo. They don’t have the knowledge, expertise and crucially it doesn’t fit as well with their endgame of box under the TV which does lots of things. There are very good reasons why Sony and MS approach the market in the way they do and similar for Nintendo.

    #68 3 years ago
  69. G1GAHURTZ

    @67:

    Don’t get me wrong, I completely agree. That’s what I said in my first comment.

    Tech power doesn’t mean much at all.

    Look at the 3DO, the (“128 bit”) Jaguar, the Saturn, the Dreamcast, the Xbox, etc, etc… They were all more powerful than competitors, but they were outsold, and left lagging behind the respective top selling consoles.

    But…

    Nintendo can’t really play that card here, because there are other things like online (that I mentioned), like more adult games, etc that they need to work on.

    #69 3 years ago
  70. G1GAHURTZ

    @68:

    But they are trying to compete. They might be failing, but they’re going for those markets, all guns blazing.

    With Kinect, with Move, with the dance games and all the rest of it, they’re trying to move in on Nintendo’s share.

    And knowing Microsoft, I can’t see them giving up too easily.

    #70 3 years ago
  71. absolutezero

    I can’t remember the last time an actual M Rated game was released that was actually aimed at adults and not teenagers.

    Most M rated games marketing and advertising is directly targeted at teenagers.

    Possibly Max Payne 3 maybe?

    #71 3 years ago
  72. Ireland Michael

    @71 Max Payne is just as juvenile as the rest. In fact, it’s possible a worse offender because of the fact that it tries to be smart in the process.

    It’s story and style is nothing but a contradictory rip-off of another movie – Man on Fire. Max’s ham-fisted story of redemption is completely at odds with the gameplay, which is nothing more than killing hundreds of people in an overly violent fashion.

    RE: The topic. I can’t believe this is still going on. There is nothing to debate. There will either be good games, or they won’t. That’s all that ever bloody matters.

    #72 3 years ago
  73. DrDamn

    @70
    There is a difference between trying to get a slice and trying to use a market and actively competing. Put it this way can you see PS4/X720 popping out with a similar spec to the WiiU so they can compete on price?

    They would like to get some of the market in order to push what they actually want to sell. They don’t want to sell what Nintendo sell. They want to ride on the back of it rather than compete in it.

    #73 3 years ago
  74. Fin

    @71

    18 and 19 yr olds are adults too ;)

    All M-rated games are aimed at adults. Teenagers buy them sure, but the target audience is probably 18-34.

    @72

    Bro, Max Payne certainly isn’t juvenile. Can I get some of the shit you’re smoking?

    #74 3 years ago
  75. Dragon246

    @66,
    Exactly.
    Nintendo has family friendly image which it developed in order to capture the market where sony did not go. Lets face it, ps1 and ps2 were unstoppable, so it made complete sense for ninty to look for newer markets.
    Also to some people here who constantly bring up the fact that ninty first party games many times are bestsellers, that is actually a negative point for 3rd party pubs. They know the people buying ninty console mainly for 1st party and not 3rd party which diminishes their sales.That is also a reason why ninty platforms have least 3rd party support.
    Not that ninty should stop making good games.
    On that note,
    http://www.destructoid.com/why-does-new-super-mario-bros-2-look-so-bland–226709.phtml&sa=U&ei=JjrjT77oOOuOmQW8sJTdAw&ved=0CAUQFjAA&client=internal-uds-cse&usg=AFQjCNGKz8LxXhQvL1-Nq2kOz1jOTvXasQ

    And this is what nintendo says about 2d mario,
    http://www.destructoid.com/nintendo-people-want-the-2d-mario-games-to-be-similar-229813.phtml&sa=U&ei=JjrjT77oOOuOmQW8sJTdAw&ved=0CAcQFjAB&client=internal-uds-cse&usg=AFQjCNFUiimb1YTxOCCPh63SKgKwijvo5w

    So much for innovation huh.

    #75 3 years ago
  76. ManuOtaku

    #73 “They don’t want to sell what Nintendo sell”
    all of them sell consoles, that play games, i dont understand you

    #76 3 years ago
  77. Ireland Michael

    @74 It’s juvenile as fucking hell.

    It tries to be deep, it tries to be meaningful, but it walks around in the drunken stupor, completely devoid of direction… much like its lead character.

    Max is the only character of interest in the whole story, and even then his motivations are lacklustre at best. It tries to do the whole social commentary thing too, but falls flat on its face and has nothing meaningful to actually say.

    #77 3 years ago
  78. ManuOtaku

    #75″Also to some people here who constantly bring up the fact that ninty first party games many times are bestsellers, that is actually a negative point for 3rd party pubs. They know the people buying ninty console mainly for 1st party and not 3rd party which diminishes their sales.That is also a reason why ninty platforms have least 3rd party support.
    Not that ninty should stop making good games”

    Third party games are a problem for nintendo since the N64, for the cartridge issue and fees, since then was for various reasons, but mostly for the strong veil nintendo put on their consoles, and the physical format, this also applys to gamecube, now with the wii this wasnt the case, the thing was the big difference in power, and the vision of the third partys of making shovelware for casuals, now with the WiiU the thing will not be the same because of scability for the tech they use, at least the tech is on the same level as ipads, Ios, etc therefore all the third multiplaform games will come to the WiiU, it doenst matter if it cannot run to the fullets UE4, or cryengine 3, but because of scability they can put those games on the wiiU something that was lacking on the wii, for that it will fare better IMHO, the thing will be the third party exclusives, they will be shovelware or not?, thats the question

    #78 3 years ago
  79. Fin

    @77

    lol

    #79 3 years ago
  80. DrDamn

    @76
    MS & Sony are both in the box under the tv business. That’s the goal. A box they can sell you lots of things through, not just games – music, video, movies. Whilst they’d happily take the sort of profits Nintendo generate a console that just plays games is not their plan. It doesn’t play to their strengths and longer term they see more in the other market. That’s what also drives their box specs and capabilities, and conveniently links back to the main article. :)

    #80 3 years ago
  81. ManuOtaku

    #80 so you mean the hardcore became the casual , and for that matter now the casual seem more hardcore, because games are the main focus?

    #81 3 years ago
  82. absolutezero

    So are you trying to honestly tell me that Gears of War is aimed at adults because it has an M-Rating? The Call of Duty games?

    No theres a vast difference in what age rating a game has compared to what the target audience is. If a game has an M Rating theres a pretty good chance that its going to aimed squarely at 15 year old males.

    #82 3 years ago
  83. DrDamn

    @81
    Nah. I wouldn’t use the terms casual, core, hardcore. They aren’t clearly defined and mean different things to different people.

    Games are the main – only? – focus for Nintendo. But they are games for all sorts of players. Sony and Microsoft ultimately want to be the box that everyone has under the TV – fulfilling a lot of different roles. That covers all sorts of gamer types but also lots of other areas of entertainment. You can’t just slap out a box like that and expect everyone to tumble in though. You need to work your way in to different markets and spread out from there. Which is what both are trying to do.

    #83 3 years ago
  84. ManuOtaku

    #83 ok i got your point, thanks

    #84 3 years ago
  85. Ireland Michael

    @79 Deep.

    If you don’t actually have any sort of observation on the subject, why even bother to bring it up? You could discuss why you think it’s mature and meaningful, and why it isn’t juvenile. I’m guessing in reality you haven’t actually thought about the subject in any critical fashion.

    #85 3 years ago
  86. G1GAHURTZ

    @DD:

    I don’t think they’ll cut spec to keep the price low (although MSs leaked doc did quote $299).

    But what I do think they want is for kids and soccer moms who go to the store to buy a console to say: ‘Hey look, why should I buy this one just for waggle? This one does the same thing, but it also has netflix, HD movies, Skype, etc’.

    I think they want the entire Wii market to add to what they already have.

    They want all age groups using that box under the TV, rather than a box for the kids, a box for daddy’s games and a box for mom’s TV shows.

    #86 3 years ago
  87. Fin

    @85

    What’s the point? I’d say it’s mature and explain reasoning. You’d disagree.

    Repeat to fade.

    #87 3 years ago
  88. Ireland Michael

    @85 I have plenty of discussions with the likes of DSB and O.G. all the time. If your argument is solid enough, I might end up seeing things from your perspective.

    #88 3 years ago
  89. ManuOtaku

    #88 please guys ban Ireland, he talks to much sense.

    #89 3 years ago
  90. Ireland Michael

    @89 I can’t tell if you’re being serious on the “too much sense” part. =P

    #90 3 years ago
  91. DrDamn

    @86
    Oh yeah sure. But simply by trying to be all those things they aren’t competing directly with Nintendo. They want the market but getting it by simply being what Nintendo are wouldn’t work for them. They can’t compete on price/profit margins because they need to provide other elements. For example, there needs to be a decent amount of included storage, they needed to be HD this generation not next.

    #91 3 years ago
  92. ManuOtaku

    #90 yep, that sound with too much sense to me, seriously.

    #92 3 years ago
  93. Ireland Michael

    @92 That’s the sad thing about common sense. It’s not very common.

    #93 3 years ago
  94. ManuOtaku

    #93 agree, we have a saying here in the house of a blacksmith, knifes made of wood, i dont know if you have there something on those lines, which means most of the time when you are good at something, you dont apply it to yourself, this for the not very common on the common sense thing.

    #94 3 years ago
  95. Da Man

    Only people who find O’Connor’s.. posts fun and insightful are overenthusiastic , underaged and / or smashed.

    #95 3 years ago
  96. Ireland Michael

    @95 Now and then I think of when we were together
    Like when you said you felt so happy you could die
    Told myself that you were right for me
    But felt so lonely in your company
    But that was love and it’s an ache I still remember

    You can get addicted to a certain kind of sadness
    Like resignation to the end
    Always the end
    So when we found that we could not make sense
    Well you said that we would still be friends
    But I’ll admit that I was glad that it was over

    But you didn’t have to cut me off
    Make out like it never happened
    And that we were nothing
    And I don’t even need your love
    But you treat me like a stranger
    And that feels so rough
    You didn’t have to stoop so low
    Have your friends collect your records
    And then change your number
    I guess that I don’t need that though
    Now you’re just somebody that I used to know

    Now and then I think of all the times you screwed me over
    But had me believing it was always something that I’d done
    And I don’t want to live that way
    Reading into every word you say
    You said that you could let it go
    And I wouldn’t catch you hung up on somebody that you used to know

    But you didn’t have to cut me off
    Make out like it never happened
    And that we were nothing
    And I don’t even need your love
    But you treat me like a stranger
    And that feels so rough
    You didn’t have to stoop so low
    Have your friends collect your records
    And then change your number
    I guess that I don’t need that though
    Now you’re just somebody that I used to know

    I used to know
    That I used to know

    Somebody…

    #96 3 years ago
  97. Da Man

    ^Rock on, brah.

    #97 3 years ago
  98. Ireland Michael

    @98 You know it’s true, baby!

    #98 3 years ago
  99. Da Man

    No, I know it’s sad.

    And I’m not your baby.

    #99 3 years ago
  100. Ireland Michael

    @100 That’s not what you used to say before, baby. =’(

    #100 3 years ago
  101. Da Man

    No, that’s what I’ve been saying from the start.

    Sir, you’re intoxicated, your baby is over there..

    #101 3 years ago
  102. Ireland Michael

    @101 Well, you’re not my baby anymore, anyway. You’re just somebody that I used to know!

    You said that we would still be friends, but I’ll admit that I was glad that it was over. You treat me like a stranger though, and that feels so damn rough…

    #102 3 years ago
  103. Da Man

    Sir, you’re intoxicated. You never knew me, we just met a few times the rest is your imagination, and I never said that.

    You ‘re creeping me out, sir.

    #103 3 years ago
  104. Ireland Michael

    You lie..!

    *hic*

    #104 3 years ago
  105. Da Man

    I never lie, sir.

    Take him away.

    #105 3 years ago
  106. OlderGamer

    Holy crap!

    See what I miss by, um, actually playing games instead of just talking about them? Silly me.

    As for what Doc said, and you were the onyl one to respond really, so kudos to you friend. Iwould agree that it suits Nintendos best intrest to make cheaper hardware. I also think the software pricing is reflective of dev costs. As is dlc, preorder pushes, and whatnot.

    But my point really was, isn’t it smart for nintendo to do what they do? Rather then put more power in a box then they can afford to effectivly manufacter and then that prices them out of the market. Kind of like Sony did with both PS3 and Vita. Looks like MS will be going chepaer next gen too, still remains ot be seen tho.

    But in essance, what Miyamoto said, makes perfect sense to me.

    I know I don’t want another 600usd+ console.

    And because G1GA also asked me if I play PC games online?

    Of course. But I also play a mega ton of them offline. And I did specify, saying I hadn’t played a console game online in two years, but I forgot about BF3. That was my last online game on a console that I played. I play most of my games solo and offline.

    there is nothing wrong with online, but ifthe entire experience is built around playing omp shooters overflowing with foul mouth raciast kids, then no thanks. And that is how most of my console online game experiences have felt.

    I also whole heartedly agree that a M rating doesn’t ensure the content is mature. It just means violent, sex, language, etc. Infact just the type of stuff that sells to teens.

    Sometimes the most mature games are the ones that avoid those things because they don’t need them, rather then to include them because they are driving sales. There is no foul language or skin in Civ V. The violence(if you can call it that) is in troop icons attacking each other. And I dare anyone to call that game anything except Mature.

    #106 3 years ago
  107. poketrainer

    I’m sure the Wii U will be more powerful than people are expecting but it won’t stand up to PS4/720.

    In other news I’m upset that Nintendo finally has an HD console to show Travis Touchdown in glorious HD but No More Heroes 3 doesn’t look like it’s coming out and I love that series.

    I guess I’ll have to pick up Heroes Paradise for my PS3 if I want an HD trip to Santa Destroy.

    #107 3 years ago
  108. G1GAHURTZ

    @106:

    Nobody said anything about the WiiU needing to be ‘overflowing with shooters’.

    You simply can’t say that you’re focused on fun, when you neglect such a huge part of (incredibly fun) gaming, and treat it like an optional extra.

    Simple as.

    #108 3 years ago
  109. Dragon246

    @107,
    “I’m sure the Wii U will be more powerful than people are expecting”
    Really? Any proofs for your surety?
    I have proof for the contrary,
    http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-vs-wiiu-e3-2012

    Meanwhile , ninty is not doing a good thing by outsourcing smash bros to namco. Outsourcing leads to poor game most of the time.
    http://www.ign.com/articles/2012/06/22/namco-bandai-developing-next-smash-bros
    Maybe feeling the pressure from all stars battle royale and releasing a product quickly?

    #109 3 years ago
  110. DrDamn

    @OG
    Yeah I understand – it’s just I think yes this suits Nintendo, but the other approach also suits Sony and MS.

    Oh and … http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-06-22-new-super-mario-bros-2-dlc-details-revealed

    #110 3 years ago
  111. stealth

    Hes 100 percent correct

    #111 3 years ago

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