Sections

Obsidian on board if Wasteland 2 Kickstarter hits $2.1M

Friday, 30th March 2012 17:17 GMT By Stephany Nunneley

Should the Wasteland 2 Kickstarter reach $2.1 million within the next 17 days remaining, Obisidian Entertainment along with the firm’s Chris Avellone will lend a hand with development.

Per RPS: “Wasteland is one of my favorite RPGs of all time, and when Brian asked if I wanted to work on the sequel, I jumped at the chance,” said Avellone. “While I’ve worked on Fallout 2 and Fallout: New Vegas, getting the chance to work on the spiritual successor to the Fallout franchise is a honor.”

“I have a history with the guys at Obsidian that dates back to the days of Interplay’s Black Isle studios,” offered inXile’s Brian Fargo. “Together we created some of the greatest RPG’s of all time, from Fallout 1 & 2 to titles like Icewind Dale and Planescape: Torment. It is great that we now have a chance to reunite on a project like Wasteland 2.”

Fargo said earlier this week that nothing would make him happier than to work with his fellow developers from Black Isle Studios again. Looks like it may just happen.

Latest

43 Comments

  1. Hunam

    Can you ask him if this involves Tim Cain?

    #1 2 years ago
  2. Kabby

    So they want half a million to ‘lend a hand’? Ok.

    #2 2 years ago
  3. Gekidami

    They’d get more money the other way round; “Either it reaches $2.1 million within the next 17 days or Obsidian work on the game!”.

    #3 2 years ago
  4. Hunam

    :D

    #4 2 years ago
  5. Ercarret

    OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG!!!

    #5 2 years ago
  6. absolutezero

    Quick everyone remove your pledges.

    #6 2 years ago
  7. brotherhoodofthewolf

    In for 250.
    How much to rebuild Interplay?

    #7 2 years ago
  8. TheWulf

    This is the most amazing news I’ve heard today. Day made!

    Obsidian has some of the best writers in the industry. Obsidian is to writing what ArenaNet is to art. There are certain developers you’ll hear me going nuts about, and often it’s the ones that have actual talent. So many no-talent hacks out there, it’s why the bar for gaming entertainment is often so low.

    But Obsidian… wow. New Vegas had a story that was as intellectual as it was poignant, and some parts of it that will remain with me forever. Much like Mask of the Betrayer, and so many other of their greats. I mean, even in Fallout 2, they took a joke (low INT) and made it a statement about how the world looks at you if you’re very eccentric/mentally disabled. It was something that made you laugh and think.

    Few developers can do that.

    My only problem with New Vegas is that it was very, very dry (yes, I know, desert … but no pun intended) and didn’t carry a lot of the trademark humour of Fallout. Wasteland has a lot of that trademark humour. Alone, I’d be slightly worried about Obsidian working on this. But with inXile?

    Who knows. Even my slight worries may be allayed.

    So yes, this is great, great news. Very happy about this! If Obsidian is going to be on board, then you can have more of my money!

    @6

    Don’t be an arse. I mean… what compelled you to write that? Did you ever stop and think about it?

    #8 2 years ago
  9. TheWulf

    One thing I will say is that I hope they get people like John Deiley and Chris Taylor on board for this, too. Those guys were also part and parcel of the soul, personality, and functionality of Fallout.

    (I don’t need to mention Tim Cain, that’s happened.)

    Do you think you can make this happen, guys? Do you think you can get the old team together? If you can, I would increase my pledge by a good amount, too, despite money being tight.

    These are minds I want all working together again.

    #9 2 years ago
  10. The_Red

    Just rebuild Black Isle and give people a real RPG after years of good but not great games.

    #10 2 years ago
  11. Phoenixblight

    @10

    Because 2 negatives make a posiitive right? They are two studios that can’t pull off anything. One is only riding on the coat tails of a game made 15+ years ago and one current gen game that was utter crap while the other company has only made New Vegas that was worth while but the bugs were so horrendous it just makes it null and void.

    #11 2 years ago
  12. absolutezero

    Apart from some parts of New Vegas nearly every other newish Obsidian games have been terrible.

    Alpha Protocol had terrible writing, its story was stupid, the dialouge was God Awful and the game was broken at the lowest level. The animations are bad, the AI is non-existant.

    Dungeon Seige 3 was bland to its core, for the loot based game the loot was un-inspired and boring, there was nothing to get excited about at all. Then there was the bad voice acting, once again bad dialouge and rubbish co-op integration.

    So what compelled you to focus solely on New Vegas and ignore all the other tripe? Again?

    One of my only problems with New Vegas is that it felt cheap, like if you looked too closely at it the environment would fall over like a bad soap opera, no amount of good character work can get rid of that.

    Patrolling The Mojave Almost Makes You Wish For A Nuclear Winter

    #12 2 years ago
  13. TheWulf

    @11

    The bugs didn’t exist. They were the fabrication of some writers who felt it would generate site hits if they were overly hard on the game. One site that did this was RPS, and they were called on their shit. People provided evidence that they were doing it just to generate controversy.

    But some people believe every single thing they hear.

    Me? I’m a part of the modding community, and at launch of the GECK we all went over it with a fine tooth comb and we were amazed at how professional it was compared to Fallout 3, and how many issues in Fallout 3 that Obsidian had fixed.

    Fact: There was a bug in Fallout 3 where if you went into the lower-right end of the world map (25% of it), it would hard lock. This was due to doing quests a certain way. It took them a month to fix.

    Fact: On launch, escort quests in Fallout 3 were so broken that the people you were escorting would walk back and froth across the same spot.

    Fact: The unofficial patch for Fallout 3 contains six or seven times the amount of fixes than the unofficial patch for Fallout: New Vegas.

    Fact: The only serious issue in Fallout: New Vegas (like the head rotating bug) was caused by a GCF storage file issue that was Valve’s fault, and they owned up to it.

    But the problem with sheep is that they’ll harp on whatever they hear without doing their own bloody research. And like I said, for someone with hands on experience, this is … galling. No one calls Bethesda on their shit because sheep, Obsidian makes an easier target.

    As I’ve mentioned before, Obsidian had to fix and work around so many issues due to Bethesda’s stupidity in the GECK, there were lots of instances of it, and it resulted in a game that was both more ambitious and less buggy than Fallout 3.

    But… you keep harping on with what you were told. I know better. From experience.

    @12

    “Alpha Protocol had terrible writing, its story was stupid, the dialouge was God Awful and the game was broken at the lowest level. The animations are bad, the AI is non-existant.”

    Because animations have a lot to do with writing. See, this just tells me that you’re pulling things out of your arse and throwing them out there.

    How about you give me an example of this supposed ‘bad writing?’ Obsidian are an industry standard recognised by professionals and talked up by them for their writing. You’re just someone on a blog who has a hate fetish for Obsidian who’s just throwing anything he can out there.

    All of which is unsubstantiated.

    “Dungeon Seige 3 was bland to its core, for the loot based game the loot was un-inspired and boring, there was nothing to get excited about at all. Then there was the bad voice acting, once again bad dialouge and rubbish co-op integration.”

    Because bad voice acting has a lot to do with bad writing.

    Yes, it wasn’t the most incredible game ever, but it was a hell of a lot more interesting than any Diablo clone we’ve played, and the writing was more compelling to me than Diablo III.

    There was a lot of momentum to that storyline and I found it memorable. But it seems like you’re butt-hurt about a lack of ‘phat loot’ (which I can’t deny) and as such you’re taking it out on their story telling capabilities.

    “So what compelled you to focus solely on New Vegas and ignore all the other tripe? Again?”

    I could mention Mask of the Betrayer, which was such a feat of brilliant storytelling that people have felt the need to put tributes up on Youtube of all of the dialogue scenes in the game.

    I just use New Vegas because I think it’s the one that people would be able to relate to the most, being a shooty shooty game.

    “One of my only problems with New Vegas is that it felt cheap, like if you looked too closely at it the environment would fall over like a bad soap opera, no amount of good character work can get rid of that.”

    Oh wow. Are you Quin from Rock, Paper, Shotgun? Or are you just harping his words? He said much the same, and he was called on it for bullshit.

    How did New Vegas feel that way? Saying that it does doesn’t make it so. It just makes you sound delusional in my opinion, trying to sound cool instead of being honest. You kids are all about being cool.

    “Patrolling The Mojave Almost Makes You Wish For A Nuclear Winter”

    Didn’t Quin say that, too?

    …are you Quin?

    You’re him, aren’t you?

    Either that or some mindless drone who’s just repeating his words rather than doing your own research. Which is half the problem I have with you bloody kids.

    #13 2 years ago
  14. TheWulf

    So just cool kids trying to be cool by harping the words of Quin.

    I wish intelligence and own research was as important as ‘being cool’ these days.

    Sigh.

    In fact, just to put the final nail into this coffin of idiocy…

    The community didn’t even think that a true unofficial patch was necessary for New Vegas. There’s a community bug fix compilation which is a handful of patches, yes, but that’s it. And half of that is subjective game balancing and model/texture tweaks. See for yourself.

    Now compare and contrast with the unofficial patch for Fallout 3.

    Feel free to read the documentation.

    This is why I just find this completely ridiculous. And I sigh and wish to myself that people could think for themselves instead of forcing me to do their thinking for them.

    Contrary to popular belief, I’m not your public “thinking machine” guys. You should be doing this yourselves.

    #14 2 years ago
  15. TheWulf

    Now then…

    Can we not do this dance again? I’m tired of mopping up the bull poop every time Obsidian comes up. Harping the words of a guy who thought it’d be fun to generate hits for his site by being a controversial liar is neither clever nor cool, especially when there’s factual evidence against it.

    That review you like harping, @12, had tens of pages of comments, back when RPS comments pages were longer than they all are now. Half of them asking if he even played the same game, and half of them calling him on outright lying in his review. I think these comments went up to around the 10,000~ mark before RPS started culling with prejudice.

    There was even a Reddit thread about how much of an incredible clusterfuck this was, and people there were amazed that this guy actually had a site that was willing to print his nonsense, too.

    So yeah. Harping that review just makes you look like a bit of an idiot.

    #15 2 years ago
  16. absolutezero

    Sigh. Alright then you saw somethings you don’t agree with and defaulted back to trying to call me a sheep instead of these being my own opinions.

    I listed the faults of both AP and DS 3, I was not trying to connect them all to the writing just that the writing in each was poor. One of the largest examples for me personally is in DS 3 where for most of the game I had little idea of where I was going and for what reason. Then suddenly there was Steampunk. Oh great, top hats and cogs my favourite.

    http://youtu.be/wM1vr8f9VYY

    This guy loves AP and even he knows its a pile of shit.

    One of the first things I came across after starting New Vegas was walking outside to see an NPC’s dog with its eyes hovering outside its head. I took a screenshot of it!

    http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/578927726940271369/00693B50A7C9B01FB97401BA25B1F4469140EEBA/

    “The bugs didn’t exist. They were the fabrication of some writers who felt it would generate site hits if they were overly hard on the game. ”

    Please do go on though.

    “So yeah. Harping that review just makes you look like a bit of an idiot.”

    What in the name of holy fuck are you talking about? I have never even read RPS’ review of New Vegas. I fucking played it myself.

    Go fuck yourself you smug cunt.

    “There was even a Reddit thread”

    aaaaahhhhhhhh Everything makes sense now.

    Jesus you’ve played Diablo 3? and you dislike the writing? Alright then! yeeeeeeeah.So I just re-read my original post that made you have an emotional breakdown and it seems that I never even mentioned bugs in the first place.

    Oh my word it appears I cannot talk from all these words you are forcing into my mouth. Oh someone help me.

    #16 2 years ago
  17. TheWulf

    @16

    And you’re still a sheep. I’ll illustrate why.

    “Then suddenly there was Steampunk. Oh great, top hats and cogs my favourite.”

    Because including things from a genre you don’t like is bad writing.

    “One of the first things I came across after starting New Vegas was walking outside to see an NPC’s dog with its eyes hovering outside its head. I took a screenshot of it!”

    Which was because of the GCF file issue I noted.

    “What in the name of holy fuck are you talking about? I have never even read RPS’ review of New Vegas. I fucking played it myself.”

    Don’t believe you.

    “Go fuck yourself you smug cunt.”

    Yeah, yeah.

    “aaaaahhhhhhhh Everything makes sense now.”

    Now who’s being a smug fucker?

    #17 2 years ago
  18. TheWulf

    Ultimately you still sound like a cool kid trying to be cool by hating on a small studio that always give their all.

    That must make you feel so big, clever, and powerful on the Internets!

    You’re kind of pathetic. I’m sorry.

    Anyway, I’m done here. You’re seriously fucking up my faith in humanity. Obsidian always try their best to provide something that’s new, unusual, and fresh.

    That makes them an easy target for the kid who wants to be cool, such a hipster! Attacking the guys who’re doing things that may not be popular! Imagine that!

    I mean, seriously…

    You really are kind of pathetic.

    New Vegas was a great game, not very buggy at all, and it was probably the best RPG we’ve had in a decade. But you just want to be so, so cool.

    I just can’t respect you, or believe you, in regards to anything.

    #18 2 years ago
  19. absolutezero

    Sorry that would still be you talking down to someone you don’t know. I voiced pretty valid reasons behind why I think Obsidian getting involved with this Kickstarter is a bad thing (They have made one good game this generation), then you went mental.

    Plus im not the one using tired old sayings like calling people sheep for sharing a similar opinion to someone you don’t like, or “cool kids”.

    Im 28 and I could not care less what you think.

    Poor old Obsidian has someone that dislikes them on the internet, whatever shall they do? Being so small and precious and small. Poor Obsidian.

    #19 2 years ago
  20. absolutezero

    “Obsidian always try their best to provide something that’s new, unusual, and fresh.”

    Thats why they make sequels right? DS 3, Kotor 2, NV? right! New and Fresh! Right?

    Obsidian are not an easy target when they seem to have the most insane, rabid fans on the face of the planet. Really, you saw nothing wrong with anything in either Alpha Protocol or Dungeon Seige 3? Sure some of it could have been fixed with a larger budget or more time given but AP was flawed to its core because of its core mechanics. The kung-fu, the stealth, the shooting. Oh boy.

    Cool kids hey!

    At this point I don’t really care if you choose to believe me or not but I never read the RPS thing on New Vegas, I don’t actually think I read any review before buying it and installing some mods.

    Of course then proceeded to crash randomly because of the mods but then that was partly my own fault, the samething happened with Fallout 3 which I am not defending in anyway, shape or form. Actually I never mentioned Fallout 3 before anyway, I don’t think it really matters.

    #20 2 years ago
  21. Sini

    massive win of an update, 2.1mil is pretty much guaranteed. and fuck all the obsidian haters, they are the top developer when it comes to good story/characters.

    #21 2 years ago
  22. absolutezero

    Ok, im sorry it appears that the harsh words of one man on the internet has shaken your FAITH IN HUMANITY.

    I apologise.

    #22 2 years ago
  23. DSB

    Kinda odd that Obsidian would go out and apologize for bugs that didn’t exist. It’s even more impressive that the evil media managed to fool thousands of customers too.

    You know you’ve got a good conspiracy going when you’re able to fool the people it’s apparently meant to frame.

    Personally, I’d say that if every other person you see seems crazy and misguided, and the only exception to the rule is you, it’s time to do a bit of soulsearching.

    #23 2 years ago
  24. Gekidami

    Seriously Wulf, Obsidian just make bad games. Its so blatant you cant even say its a matter of opinion, their games are broken and shoddy. The only reason New Vegas wasnt an utter disaster (instead it was a semi-enjoyable mess) is because they had a load of assets from Bethesda to build on. They’re more like good modders then game developers.

    #24 2 years ago
  25. Erthazus

    @24, incorrect.

    New Vegas was enjoyable because there were original Fallout developers and Bethesda assets are the only stuff that ruined Fallout: New Vegas. Period.

    Fallout:New Vegas was a fantastic RPG, a true sequel to Fallout and Wulf is correct here.

    Bethesda assets and engine is the only problem and i agree with you that they are more like good modders than developers and that their new Ip’s and previous games sucked from bad engineering to bad game design.

    #25 2 years ago
  26. absolutezero

    @23 + 24

    http://youtu.be/R5rXqAsZnGU

    #26 2 years ago
  27. Judicas

    As much as I hate first person rpgs, fallout new vegas was miles better then fallout 3. Only received such bad press about bugs because of bethseda, not obsidian. Was planning on putting $150 towards wasteland 2, but with this announcement… maybe more.

    #27 2 years ago
  28. Jerykk

    Fallout: New Vegas was no more buggy than any Bethesda RPG. Daggerfall was buggy, Morrowind was buggy, Oblivion was buggy and Fallout 3 was buggy, Skyrim was buggy. Hell, Oblivion had several critical, permanently game-breaking bugs like running out of FormIDs (thus preventing new items and characters from spawning) and having animations stop playing entirely after you played the game for long enough.

    The difference between FNV and Bethesda’s RPGs is that FNV was far, far more open-ended and had much, much better writing. In fact, FNV is the best RPG made in the last decade and a genuinely worthy successor to Fallout 2.

    As for Alpha Protocol, I enjoyed it. The game’s implementation of choice and consequence was excellent, with morally ambiguous choices that had tangible, long-term effects on actual gameplay. The dialogue system was interesting too, as you had to actually pay attention and try to read the other person’s personality (made easier by collecting intel on them through side-missions). The combat and stealth were pretty clunky, but at least you had options. Other action RPGs (like Mass Effect) offer far less choice when it comes to how you deal with any given situation.

    I didn’t play Dungeon Siege 3, so I can’t comment on its merits. However, Obsidian was given the undesirable task of taking a PC-centric series and genre and trying to make it work on consoles. Apparently they failed. I have little doubt that the game would have been better if it were designed as a PC-exclusive.

    Chris Avellone’s potential involvement in Wasteland 2 is great news for anyone with a lot of experience in the CRPG genre. Judging by the comments made here, I’m guessing a lot of you have never played Fallout 2 or Planescape: Torment. If you had, you’d be a lot more excited about this news.

    #28 2 years ago
  29. The_Red

    @28 I agree with everything you said except for FNV being the best RPG in the last decade. Dude, I loved that game but seriously, there are a lot of other modern RPGs worthy of that title like Arcanium / Vampire Bloodlines / almost everything from Troika Games (Other ex-Fallout people), Demon’s Souls (My fave RPG of this gen and it is NOT a JRPG) and KOTOR1 (I’d add KOTOR2 but I seem to be in the minority here to love that game).

    Outside the above rant about best RPG of the decade, I’m 100 percent with you. Alpha Protocol was a really fun game with a bit of Deus Ex feel to it. Heck, I played Dungeon Siege 3 and it did have a really great story once things got going. The character design and a few other things were lacking but the feel of choice, endings and a few other parts of it were very well made. The only big downer was the uber simplistic RPG system.

    #29 2 years ago
  30. silkvg247

    I don’t see any point sticking up for or bashing Obsidian. As for Fallout New Vegas – it was a slow start. Too slow for me. So I have no idea how “good” it is because the initial writing was bland and not interesting to me.

    I find it insulting they’ll only chip in if they see enough money. Well, good to know their motives.

    #30 2 years ago
  31. absolutezero

    I still stand by feeling that if Alpha Protocol was developed by an obscure Russian developer with the same standard of everything throughout it would have been widely mocked and rightly ignored.

    #31 2 years ago
  32. Jerykk

    @29

    I guess it depends on your criteria for good RPGs. For me, it’s all about choice. The more meaningful choice a game offers, the better an RPG it is. Fallout: New Vegas offers more choice than any other RPG made in the past 10 years. As I mentioned before, almost every quest has branching paths and both stealth and diplomacy are viable ways to progress through the game. On top of all that, you get to choose your end goal, something that the vast majority of other RPGs don’t let you do. There are no good guys or bad guys, just different philosophies. You choose the faction that follows your own philosophy the closest and take it from there. Or if you don’t like any of the factions, you just pursue your own goals. I really wish more games did that. I’m tired of fighting against generic ancient evils that threaten to destroy the universe.

    While Demon Souls may be a great game, it doesn’t really fit my criteria for RPGs. I’d consider it an action game first and foremost. Arcanum and and Bloodlines are two of my favorite RPGs, but FNV just offered more choice overall.

    @31

    If Alpha Protocol were developed by an obscure Russian developer, I think most people who actually played it would be impressed. Russian games are generally known for dubious writing/translation and excessive lack of polish. Alpha Protocol was definitely more polished and had better writing than a game like STALKER, for example.

    #32 2 years ago
  33. Erthazus

    @32, have you ever played Katauri games?

    King’s bounty?

    I’m not so sure, because it is one of the most polished games ever by a Russian developer with fantastic writing.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King%27s_Bounty:_The_Legend
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King%27s_Bounty:_Armored_Princess

    #33 2 years ago
  34. DSB

    At least this has made me go back to Fallout 2. Like most other things the Obsidian guys have touched, it barely worked on release, but it’s only taken 10-20 years for other people to fix it, so now we can enjoy it the way it was always meant to be.

    Really one of the best games I’ve ever played. That’s the only reason I’d suffer those gamebreaking bugs in the first place though.

    @32 I doubt it. I’ve played Russian games way better than Alpha Protocol. Being more polished than Stalker isn’t saying anything though.

    Stalker barely worked on release, but at least it has a community that has fixed it now. Alpha Protocol isn’t likely to recieve that kind of support. On the PC they couldn’t even be bothered to hotfix the broken minigames.

    @33 Silent Storm, Men of War, Lock On: Modern Air Combat, IL-2 Sturmovik and King’s Bounty are great examples.

    The reason why people say King’s Bounty has great writing is because the translation is so screwed up though. It makes it seriously crazy :P

    #34 2 years ago
  35. back_up

    first they learn to develop bugs free games
    inspite of making games so many years they did’t learn anything lol

    #35 2 years ago
  36. Old MacDonald

    New Vegas was so much better than FO3 it’s painful, and pretty much everything that was bad about it was inherited from FO3 in the first place.

    Alpha Protocol was also very good. I’m not into the conspiracy theories outlined above, but it’s pretty much the perfect example of a game that was unfairly treated by the gaming press simply because it was an easy target.

    #36 2 years ago
  37. Jerykk

    @34

    While I agree that the minigames in AP clearly weren’t optimized for mouse and keyboard, they weren’t really broken. I still completed all the minigames using mouse and keyboard. I didn’t really have any issues with the rest of the game either, which is why I don’t really understand why so many people call AP so buggy. Compared to Skyrim or even New Vegas, AP was pretty polished.

    As for the Russian games, you listed, I’m not sure I’d call them examples of great writing. They were relatively polished compared to your standard Eastern European fare though, I’ll give them that.

    #37 2 years ago
  38. DSB

    @37 I wasn’t talking about the writing, although I don’t see how Alpha Protocol stood out in that department at all. It was mostly the standard sort of tripe you get from writers who pillage 1980′s action movies.

    “Me big gorilla” says the operative. “Me big gorilla too” says his boss. “Me big mean gorilla” says the villain. And then it’s generally about which one proves to be the biggest gorilla of them all.

    Most videogame writing is exactly that sort of thing, so it’s not a very good gauge of a game in my opinion.

    If you look up the hacking minigame online, you’ll see a lot of dissatisfied customers, but I agree, Alpha Protocol wasn’t nearly as buggy as NWN2 or New Vegas, but it also wasn’t ambitious in any way.

    The mechanics, the gameplay and the level design felt like something from 10 years ago. In fact I’m pretty sure the original Deus Ex had it beat by a mile.

    I guess the thing that really gets me is that I don’t see any reason to play it as long as you have Splinter Cell games that are essentially 8 years older, with more features, better engineering, and far more interesting gameplay.

    #38 2 years ago
  39. The_Red

    @32 Thanks for elaboration. I do enjoy those things and FNV is definitely the closest game to original Fallout since Fallout 2. Heck, I enjoyed those things in Dungeon Siege 3 along with its Fallout 1/2 like ending. Good call on choice of end goal. That’s one of the more awesome features of that game. Even Alpha Protocol did this to some extent. These are all the reasons why I love Obsidian so much (That and the fact that Fallout 2 is my all time fave game :) ).

    As for Demons Souls, it’s actually a quite flexible game. I sucked badly at the combat and its counters / guards / dodges. Even as a mage I wasn’t really good at the fights but through the awesomeness of RPG mechanics, the game actually became rather easy and insanely enjoyable. The character builds are beyond flexible and feel like the best of western RPGs. The control over them and sense of progress is the key. Those combined with loot, weapon upgrades and a lot of other things make it a perfect RPG for people like me that aren’t good at combat.

    It’s actually Dark Souls that’s more combat oriented. I know, it’s pretty much the same game but the way they’ve nerfed some of magical powers and progress related stuff has forced players into using melee combat more. A lot of under the hood changes are also problematic.

    #39 2 years ago
  40. Jerykk

    @38

    While AP’s story wasn’t terribly ambitious, the implementation of choice and consequence was. It’s pretty rare to see a game where almost every choice you make has a long-term consequence that actually affects gameplay. Most consequences tend to be superficial in that they only affect the story (and usually to a minor degree). AP has more meaningful consequence than all three Mass Effect games combined, for example. AP’s dialogue system was pretty unique as well. In most RPGs, dialogue is largely a passive experience where the player is just absorbing information. They occasionally have to make meaningful choices but for the most part, they’re just reading/listening. In AP, dialogue was actually a challenge. The time limits forced you to listen carefully to your opponent and try to analyze their personality so you could give the most effective response.

    Out of curiosity, did you play AP through to completion? If not, how far did you get?

    #40 2 years ago
  41. The_Red

    @40 Completely agree with everything you said but some of the consequences felt random or too much. Most of the time I was actually playing in fear of my actions and was making saves left and right just so I could try everything. I believe the time dialogues was a bit of a problem for such a game as well along with the fact that they didn’t show the whole dialogue and just a stance (A problem that AP had, LA Noire had, ME to some degree had…). Among modern “4 options only” dialogue systems, only Deus Ex 3 fixed it via showing a preview of exact words below the main choices.

    Sadly I didn’t finish it. The whole thing made me want to find about every possible outcome to every scenario and that meant playing for weeks. After the first section of the game, I chose Russia and tried every possible outcome (Making many saves). One with tendency towards Albatross (Kill the girl and don’t kill the girl) (Save Albot at final mission or don’t) and then with other handler. After finally finishing it, I made a major save and then went to Rome but then stopped trying every outcome and just rushed to the end of that section. That decision hurt my experience but did speed things up a bit. After Rome, I did a bit of Teipe (Spelling?) and stopped (3 possible endings as well as another plot point were spoiled for me)

    This is rather shameful. I always try finish any game I start and should have stayed with it but I didn’t. Sorry for the long post but it’s always nice to find another fellow RPG gamer that appreciates some of overlooked titles like AP :)
    BTW, have you finished it? How are the endings?

    #41 2 years ago
  42. Jerykk

    I try to avoid backtracking on the choices I’ve made. I find choices are far more meaningful if you accept them and any consequences they may have, for better or for worse. While backtracking and trying out every option allows you to get the consequences you most prefer, it kind of cheapens the gravity of said choices.

    As for the stance-based dialogue system, I think it worked within the context of AP. Dialogue was essentially a minigame where you had to think on your toes and adapt quickly to the tide of the conversation. While showing the full dialogue option would have been nice, it would have likely conflicted with the time limits (which I felt ramped up the intensity of the conversations quite a bit). DX3 had a similar system, though the lack of a time limit allowed it to show you full dialogue options.

    The ending I got wasn’t terribly satisfying. It was pretty standard fare where I defeated the bad guys, got the girl and rode off into the sunset. I was hoping it would have been more comprehensive but it’s mostly forgivable given that you see the consequences of your actions throughout the course of the game, rather than at the end like in most RPGs. I’m curious to see how the ending would have played out had I made different alliances. Once I get through my backlog of games, I’ll probably do another playthrough of AP.

    #42 2 years ago
  43. The_Red

    @42 I know that cheapens the effect but I can’t help it. Every time I make a choice and see the outcome, it feels like I’ve lost something or failed to gain everything from the game (Is there a Completion-ist syndrome in gaming?).

    Onto dialogue, I respectfully disagree. First, a lot of time what the “stance” / “one word” means in my mind for a specific situation is different from what devs do. That results an out of character moment that betrays the role playing par. It’s most obvious in a title like LA Noire but even here, sometimes when I believe stance A is my choice, the dialogue that comes out of Thorton is what I was expectin from Stance B. That’s why I think every game should just show the full response like classic RPGs (Fallout, Planescape, Arcanium, Baldur’s Gate,…). That’s actually why I prefer the DX HR system. Those old games didn’t have speed limit or “one word” choices and yet their dialogues were infinitely more fun (IMO at least).
    To be fair, I guess speed / limited time does make sense in AP but still.

    Hopefully I can get to time to return to AP too. Got a lot of saves in key points and could use them to check most endings. Again, I know that cheapens the whole choice system but I HAVE TO (This is one of the reasons that games with ending related choices near the end make me so happy :) like Fallout Tactics(PC) or Deus Ex).

    #43 2 years ago

Comments are now closed on this article.