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Pachter clarifies his comments regarding Nintendo being “in disarray”

Saturday, 25th February 2012 20:13 GMT By Stephany Nunneley

Michael Pachter has taken to NeoGAF to shed more light on his keynote during the fourth annual Ayzenberg A-List Summit 2012 where he said he felt “Nintendo is in disarray,” and that the firm has “completely blown the Wii U by not telling people what the price is going to be.”

During his speech he also said: “It’s going to launch at $249 because it has to. I think they’re dead anyway because Xbox with Kinect will be priced below that by the time they launch. Wii was a bubble and that the Wii bubble has burst.”

Due to this, GAF users have been discussing the matter and the following is Pachter’s response to the both good and bad comments received:

“My speech was about the potential for growth of social gaming,” he said. “The Wii U comment was in response to a question about the potential for the Wii U.

“I believe that a large portion of the Wii audience comprised casual gamers – those who bought one or two games a year the first two years, then put the Wii aside – and that those casual gamers moved on to another platform. The “other” platform may have been Facebook games, smart phone games, tablet games, or one of the other consoles, but once they moved on, they are not likely to come back.

“At the same time, I believe that the growth of smart phones and tablets has attracted many potential dedicated handheld game customers, and these people also are unlikely to come back to either 3DS or PS Vita.”

Because of this, Pachter feels the market for the Wii U will consist of “half of the market for the Wii” with Microsoft and Sony competing for a portion of that if Wii U “is priced too high.”

“I think that the dedicated handheld market is permanently impacted by smart phones and tablets, and think that Nintendo’s addressable market is probably also half of its former market,” he continued.

“Nintendo is in disarray because they waited too long to launch the Wii U. I know that this sounds like sour grapes because they didn’t launch the Wii HD in 2009 or 2010 as I ‘predicted’ – they should have, and because they didn’t, the decline in Wii and DS hardware and software sales drove them into generating losses.”

Pachter said when a company reports losses, its worth drops in the market’s eyes and a prime example of this is the share price in Nintendo falling by 80% in the last few years, while the market has” appreciated over the same period.”

“I’m paid to advise investors, and none have made a profit owning Nintendo stock,” he said. “I don’t think that many will make a profit over the next few years, because I don’t think Nintendo’s strategy will return them to profitability.

“If the context above infuriates you, go back to school and pay attention, then read it again,” he concluded – but with a smiley face attached.

You can read the entire thread through the link.

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42 Comments

  1. jdfoster00

    I agree with what he said – to an extent…

    #1 3 years ago
  2. Dragon246

    80% drop in shares? Now that is something. They need to do something revolutionary if they need to stay in the market. For both sony and microsoft,console business is a side business. But for nintendo its the only major thing they do so its alarming.

    #2 3 years ago
  3. frostquake

    Though I do not like this man, usually based on his ability to alienate the people he is supposed to represent by his shear smugness, his comments are actually very accurate in regards to the WiiU. The NintenBots can throw their little Hissy Fits all they want.

    We all know Nintendo moves at a Snail pace, and always has. And don’t give that garbage about innovation. The WiiU is nothing more then a locked Tablet or over-sized Smart phone.

    I sure as hell won’t spend $249 on a Tablet and $59.99 on WiiU games. The App Market place has completely changed the Demographics.

    With New Tablets coming out this year with High-End Graphics cards, and much more Open Architecture then the very CLOSED Nintendo Architecture, Nintendo is late to the Game, too late.

    I played the Wii and then moved on to Facebook Games, Games on my Smart Phone, and back to my PS360 consoles.

    The Wii is a Bore! Except of the occasional play of Mario, Zelda, and of course Late to the Game The Last Story, and maybe Xenoblade.

    Should we all Gamble and buy the WiiU for $250 and play games that we have already played on other consoles? Or gamble like we did on the Wii and find that 90% of what was released on the the Wii was pure SHIT!

    So Buy your WiiU so you can use your fingers to swipe and bowl down pins, and then in 5 years get a Zelda Game.

    In this World Economy and Europe and other Countries on the Verge of Insolvency, if you have money to burn and piss away, by all means go for it!!

    #3 3 years ago
  4. Dannybuoy

    *imagines that photo of Patchter dressed as a fortune teller over a crystal ball*

    #4 3 years ago
  5. Telepathic.Geometry

    @frostquake: I don’t agree that the Wii is shit (there’s a lot of gems on there, like with the Gamecube), but I agree with most of everything else you said there. I’m a bit worried about Ninty these days. They’re too entrenched in their own version of reality, they need a kick in the arse.

    #5 3 years ago
  6. frostquake

    @Tele

    The “Shit” comments comes from the Software Side, not the Hardware Side. I have seen the potential of what the System can do, but Developers got caught up in making “Gimmicky” games that was all Fluff and No Depth!

    Walk into your Local Target, Wal-Mart, Best Buy, and the Shelves are full of Bargain Bin Games flooding valuable Shelf space, games like Saint, Alien Monster Bowling League, Zhu Zhu Pets, Party Babyz, Charm Girlz Pajama Party, and the list goes on and on and on.

    Publishers were just taking anything and everything with motion gimmicks and throwing it at the customer. I heard vendors calling certain Wii games at “Toss Away” games or “Throw Away” games, games that were just meant to keep the grand-kids busy for the afternoon!

    Just wanting part of that Motion Control Pie.

    The Sad part was you had to “Wade through piles of Shit, to get to those Gems” as you put it, especially if you were a serious gamer!

    #6 3 years ago
  7. polygem

    i really cant agree with most of whats said here. i think nintendo learned their lesson really well and all that is shown in the concept of the wiiu. to me all this sounds awesome and right now i believe i finally wont need any other console anymore than the wiiu. i do not care about high end tablets or open or closed architecture on my gaming console. i also can´t see what´s so great about the 360, ps3 anymore. it´s repeating and reapeting samesame gameconcepts all over again. i am so very bored with it. when i see the vita it shows just that. it is a nice piece of hardware for sure but on the softwareside i really scratch my head. why are they getting away with this lazyness? compare mario and luigi partners in time with mario galaxy, zelda spirit tracks and skyward sword. all awesome, all same ip, all play totally different. that list goes on and on with kirby, metroid…… that is the big strength of nintendo and this is the lesson sony and ms should finally learn from them. in the long run i think nintendo has done so much more good things for gaming in general, while ms and sony are more and more on the way killing it really. they go the hollywood way: just make it bigger bigger bigger….boredom. sure their stuff still sells well, but the best games this gen still have been nintendo games imho. i ignored nintendo for quite some time this gen. was disappointed with what they brought to the table. got brainwashed by marketing that N is for the casual now and the HC plays ps3 and 360. i was wrong. i hope the wiiu will be succesfull and i am pretty sure it will be, because i can´t see anything that could turn out to become a problem. Nintendo games + third party support, HD, wireless touchscreen controller….

    #7 3 years ago
  8. focux007

    I think we should just play games and let the grown ups worry about the number crunching lol. Ninty ent going anywhere regardless of finances, if anything the more challenges they are faced with the harder they will work and thus in theory better games are released as a result. Eg 3ds sales were poor at launch the result… 2 key mario games out within 4 weeks of each other in time for christmas. = happy gamer lol. I think we are in a consumers market due to entertainment options being saturated and so to get your attention companies have to release something exceptional, which is only a good thing for us!

    #8 3 years ago
  9. IrrationalGamer

    The problem, polygem, is that Nintendo will only have the third parties for maybe 2 years (and probably mostly PS3 and 360 ports). After PS4 and the next Xbox come out, those serious third parties will probably abandon Nintendo soon after that. Then, the WiiU’s support will resemble that of the Wii, which is to say, some of the worst support in console history (especially considering the large install base of the Wii).

    Nintendo being very reluctant to bring their own high-quality titles overseas has almost completely drained my confidence that they still fully support core gamers.

    #9 3 years ago
  10. Da Man

    Obv saying ‘X360 and PS3′ and ‘ next Xbox and PS4 ‘would be more appropriate.. esp when it comes to third party dev and support ;)

    Srs bsns for srs third parties.

    #10 3 years ago
  11. polygem

    i do not believe that they will have the same problems this time around due to the fact that their new console will be much more powerful this time and will have the same controls as on nextbox and ps4. ports will be much easier then. why should 3rd parties abandon nintendo then? the problem before really was that the wii was so much weaker than the others and had a totally different way to control ingame content. i believe and hope that nintendo learned their lesson and will make a console that maybe isn´t as powerfull as the others but powerfull enough to let developers port stuff easily for a long time to come.

    #11 3 years ago
  12. OlderGamer

    I think gamers need a rethink. Esp older gamers with some miles under their control pads.

    I wouldn’t expect the young male gamers to be able to get into what Nintendo offers. They are the kind that worries too much about what someone might think if they were see them playing a Nintendo game. They are the kind that will tell you Nintendo games are for kids.

    But most of us here should* know better.

    All any of this is is someones opinion, on either side of the coin. However it is my opinion that the Wii is home to some of the best damn software this past generation. Period. Too bad that some of you dismiss it right off, not being able to shed that whole “its for kids” feeling that you have no doubt carried with you for a generation or two.

    Sure Nintendos best software is 1st party. So? Why does that matter? Uncharted and Halo say hi. When Sega put out hardware the best software was also 1st party. But that is one of the biggest draws for me. Games made by the company whos name is on the box. Thats aces in my book.

    Nintendo is a video game company. Say that outloud. Because they are the only ones left. Everyone else has sold their soul to corperations that care more about investers and board members then actual games or the gamers that play them. Neither Sony nor MS got involved in games because they love the medium. They love money. They have no integrity. They shamlessly pursue profit. 700usd launch prices, RRoD, piecemeal DLC market places, a sea of “me too” games, and a stream of sequels all say hello.

    The industry is about staying afloat and turning a profit, I get that. Nintendo is looking to make a living. Understood. But at Nintendo people with a passion for making games are in charge. They are making the very best product for us to play. So how does Nintendo actualy differ from MS and Sony? Nintendo makes a game that they are proud of, that they like, SONY/MS makes games they hope you will like. If you can’t understand the difference, stop reading. Hell stop reading the internet about video games, your already a lost cause. Just go fire up some more of your OMP shooter flavor of the week.

    Nintendo games have substance. They have a magic that is vastly missing across the shelves of your local game store. I could list Nintendo games here that stand shoulder to shoulder with anything out for pS360. But that would be pointless. Most of you are already holding a rope when it comes to Nintendo. You have been for awhile, and at every turn you get all worked up ready to hang em high. Sad.

    I will always own a Nintendo system so long as one is still being made.

    How many games do you need in order to justify the purchase of a system? For me the answer is one, depending on the game. Phantasy Star Online and the hundreds of hours validated Dreamcast for me. Dragon Force validated Saturn. The New Super Mario Bros. Wii(4 player 2D mario) alone made me fall in love with gaming all over again. 4 player split screen Mario Kart Wii = insane fun. Remember fun? It isn’t a K/D ratio. It isn’t unlocking yet another weapon/peark/kit. It isn’t about getting so pissed that you start talking to unheard voices in your head, wanting to reach through the screen and grab that little bastard that just tea baged you three times in a row.

    Fun. Try and remember what that was like. If your a little foggy about what it was like, no worries, Nintendo has you covered.

    #12 3 years ago
  13. Dragon246

    @ polygem, the games you get bored from happens to be industry’s most award winning games. And learning from nintendo? Everyone learns from one another,no big deal. Wii U itself looks like a rip-off of sony’s remote play concept. You can say the opposite for motion controllers,although kinect was a new concept.You like mario, fine. Its your opinion. It does not mean games from sony and microsoft are boring. I personally find mario boring for not containing a decent storyline, just gameplay.But that is just my opinion .

    #13 3 years ago
  14. Da Man

    #12 (OlderGaner), i don’t know you’re probably unaware of this, but videogames aren’t ‘made’ by game designers, let alone corp execs, and making something is a lot different to consuming it. People who actually enjoy their work ‘re having a great time making them regardless of who is their target customer base. 3d artists like to model, and engine architects enjoy exploring design patterns.. And even game design isn’t about fantasizing all day long for the lulz or making up fairy tales for your own amusement.

    And that you believe Nintendo are any different is charming. Keep drinking the kool-Aid. Miyamoto marketing campaign is ironically doing wonders. there’s some point in life when if you have a name people will keep on buying into whatever bollocks you keep churning out, they’ll purchase a brick instead of a console if you make one and say how genius it is.

    Oh, and I can play Mario Kart. Sega All-Stars racing was a blast, doesn’t take away how easy and uncompetitive those games are. Like drinking parties with friendly games? Good for you.

    #14 3 years ago
  15. Da Man

    -

    #15 3 years ago
  16. Da Man

    Duplicate post. Something with the website lately.

    #16 3 years ago
  17. polygem

    @og: you nailed it. @ daman: sure nintendo needs to make profits just as everyone else who wants to stay in business. but they – more than any other – try to sell without the smell of sellout. in the end everyone should at least respect what they have done for gaming. please don´t use the nintendo=casual phrase. it´s a myth. metroid prime or skyward sword are challenging and “hardcore”. i believe THAT was the biggest marketing trap current gen. @dragon: i am not saying that these games are bad, i enjoyed games of all kinds for decades. atm i am just kind of fed up with most new AAA games that are coming out. i saw them improve drastically graphicwise for a while now – great innovations- not so much. then i play loz spirit tracks on an outdated ds and i think why all this shiny graphics and marketing crap when this little game is so much more fun right now than gtaIV was (to me)? also i do not think that industry awards always are an indication for a good game. shakira wins awards too. do i find her music boring? yes.

    #17 3 years ago
  18. Da Man

    Nintendo ‘sold out’ the day they made their first videogame, there’s nothing to sell out in there. You can’t put Armor Lock into Mario, random recoil into Zelda, or turn Kirby into a gory button masher.

    #18 3 years ago
  19. polygem

    hehe i believe you could very well. stone/rock mario (galaxy) is the armour locked mario. only difference it´s still a balanced game ;-)

    i love halo though.

    #19 3 years ago
  20. Da Man

    Well, i guess they’re doing their best then :)

    That one I was talking about is balanced, it’s just noob friendly.

    #20 3 years ago
  21. Sini

    I hope wiiu bombs so hard they gtfo of the console race and just focus 100% on their handheld. Nintendo doesnt have enough resources to focus on both as the slim pickings show.

    #21 3 years ago
  22. Dragon246

    I find this argument of Nintendo being “THE ONLY VIDEO GAME COMPANY” utterly ridiculous. You why playstation ever started? Because sony had guys that thought differently than nintendo. Both sony and ms have their own take on the industry and in truth, NO company is better at making hardware than sony. Nintendo sucks in this department (in technological terms not in innovation).
    Older gamers should understand that older believes should be replaced by newer ones if they are better. Arrival of sony and microsoft especially sony has played an instrumental role to bring gaming community to where it is now. Game publishers have played a part in it too.
    Believe it or not, gaming has changed. Big N is no longer big, so quit those assumptions. I do not like angry birds, I hate it. But it is THE new way of mobile gaming.
    If you say naughty dog is making the game just for the sake of money , then you DO NOT know anything about them. Ninty is not the only company that delivers great games others do it MORE often.
    @polygem, awards and sales mean a hell lot more than opinions. They represent a major view of society.I hate call of duty. But it DEFINES GAMING in this era as much as you hate it.Neither I nor you can not do anything about it.
    And oldergamer, PLEASE do not talk about sequels while giving an agrument in favour of ninty. Don’t you think it is ironic in your statement given that longest gaming franchises like mario and zelda belong to ninty and that it shamelessly puts mario sequels and spinoffs and people buy it just because its mario?

    #22 3 years ago
  23. OlderGamer

    I will more on this later, pressed fo rtime right now. But Dragon, with all due respect Mario nor Zelda, nor any Nintendo game is a yearly franchise. The Wii has one Mario Kart. One. Even Forza is on its second run this gen. How many NFS games for this gen? Wanna compare Zelda to a CoD? There have even been four BF games this gen.

    And that is what I meant. Nintendo isn’t going to over milk its brand in order to squeeze out every drop of blood. It won’t kills its games like Acti did with TH or GH(or EA w/RB). There is difference. I am sorry if you can’t see it. But it is there.

    And take a look at this generations top sellers. 60% plus of them last I looked were Nintendo games. That speaks alot too. Maybe people on a site like this won’t buy em, but someone is. A lot of someones.

    #23 3 years ago
  24. OlderGamer

    Ok:

    DaMan, with all due respect:

    “…People who actually enjoy their work ‘re having a great time making them regardless of who is their target customer base. 3d artists like to model, and engine architects enjoy exploring design patterns.. And even game design isn’t about fantasizing all day long for the lulz or making up fairy tales for your own amusement.”

    I want you to think about what happend to Bungie or even IW, developers that grew tired of churning out the same old games and honestly didn’t enjoy what they were doing. Or how even Rare and its mass exidus of staff when MS bought them. Basicly what your saying is that people are happy to have jobs. And they like what they are doing. That might be true for some people. But that isn’t where the magic happens.

    Magic happens when a company and the people working for it have passion about the projects they are working in. I believe you have to have that passion. Ever talk to people that work for Disney at a theme park? They have that magic too. Look at Rare before MS, when they worked for Nintendo, they loved their work and it showed. Those games were fantastic. After MS took over, people left. And it has never been the same. Neither have the games.

    Thats why I have that pov.

    Dragon:

    “I find this argument of Nintendo being “THE ONLY VIDEO GAME COMPANY” utterly ridiculous. You why playstation ever started? Because sony had guys that thought differently than nintendo. Both sony and ms have their own take on the industry and in truth, NO company is better at making hardware than sony…”

    Lets stop this right there.

    Playstation one was a contracted CD add on for Super Nintendo Entertainment System. Nintendo was working together with Sony to build a CD add on to compete with Sega CD and to a lesser extent TGCD(TurboDuo). Sega wasn’t moving units of its CD add on, and NEC wasn’t proving a credible threat to SNES. Nintendo, I believe, became convinced that CD attachments were not needed for SNES. There was a falling out as you might imagine between Sony and Nintendo. And Sony took its RD and set out to beat Nintendo at its own game. Nintendo are still here, but Atari, 3DO, Philips, NEC, Sega, and SNK have all come and gone and no longer make hardware. But all of that is another post.

    Long story made short and with a few gaping holes, that is why there is a PS brand today. It is also why I will stand by my statement saying that Nintendo is truely the only damn video game company left in the hardware biz.

    You also talk about Nintendo Hardware. I love Nintendo hardware. I have a few different reasons, but my fav is affordablity. The systems that Nintendo develop are cost effective for both Nintendo and for the gamer. I am looking forward to the next gen, just like you, but I am just giddy to learn that PS4 will cost me 850usd or the XboxNext will come in 5 SKUs ranging from 400usd to 1200usd. Am I exagerating? Prolly a bit. But you get the idea.

    Nintendo does it right. Make Hardware you can afford to manufacture and sell at a price people won’t need a second job to be able to buy. That is smart.

    There is an invisible slider out there that adjusts features, price point and function. Nintendo understands that. MS seems to want to put everything including the kitchen sink in the box and tout “greatness” but that comes with a heafty price tag. Look at the first run PS3s(amazing hardware, but even at a loss they were too expensive). So I see Nintendos aproach as fiscel and smart.

    Dragon, awards and sales are different. Awards don’t mean much at all. Most of the times awards are haneded out in ceromonious fashion, complete with sponsership dollors and a captive audiance. Sales on the other hand, are the gamers vote. They, we vote with our wallets.

    I did some looking up. Wiki is not perfect but it is the best I have atm.

    Top selling games for Xbox 360:

    Kinect Adventures at 18 Million
    BLOPs COD 12 Million
    Halo 3 8 Million

    PS3:

    GT5 7 Million
    GT5:prologue 5 Million
    CoD MW2 5 Million
    Uncharted 2 and 3 each did 4 Million

    Wii:

    Wii Sports 77 Million
    Mario Kart Wii 32 Million
    Wii Sports Resort 30 Million

    Infact MS top seller would be 8th on Nintendos list. Sonys top PS3 seller would be tied for 12th.

    Now I am just as willing as the next guy to throw this type of stuff out the window, numbers like these in that they really don’t have a certifiable scientific way to verify themself. But not like Wiki is run buy some looney Nintendo fanatics either. And numbers don’t always tell the whole story, like the CoD numbers could get added together across multplatforms(but then again one of said platforms would also be a Wii). And numbers can be easily manipulated. I don’t care about any of that as I am not trying to base any therories or statments on them. And I am truely not counting them as facts.

    Just using them to point out that while you can say something like this, “polygem, awards and sales mean a hell lot more than opinions. They represent a major view of society.I hate call of duty. But it DEFINES GAMING in this era as much as you hate it.Neither I nor you can not do anything about it…” I wanted you to see that in terms of actual sales, Nintendo does pretty well. And as a major sales leader, you have to assume that(more then made up awards) speaks volumes about what real life society en mass seems to think about the subject.

    People vote with their wallets, we all know that.

    What people could say, and it would be perfectly honest and undespuatable, is that they personaly don’t enjoy games offered by Nintendo. I personaly do not enjoy Uncharted, for example. I do fully recognize the quality and the craftsmenship in those games, but I just can’t get into them and enjoy them. Thats ok. Not all games are going to appeal to all people.

    But it helps to understand that you, no matter who you are, do not represent all people. Or infact anyone other then yourself. I am just me. I am not even average gamerwise. But I get that and am comfortable with that, and don’t need to convince strangers that my game choices are cool(lol I just got struck with the irony of thios post – gotta love it). It is just that Nintendo gets a lot of hate from so called core gamers. That bothers me, not because I need to validate myself or that I identify myself in some way with their games.

    But just that I understand. I get it. Nintendo, in some symbolic way, is the only video game company left. If they ever stop making hardware, stop having a platform for their own games, it will be a very sad day in video game history. I still miss Sega.

    #24 3 years ago
  25. OlderGamer

    In all of that I forgot to link, sorry.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_video_games

    #25 3 years ago
  26. Phoenixblight

    @24

    Nintendo is not doing well if they were, they wouldn’t have been so quick to reduce the cost of the 3ds and demoing a half baked console. Along with feeling threatened by the new mobile/tablet movement. WiiU is not looking too good with the information we have and it looking like it will be the next paperweight 2.0. You can’t have a console with no 3rd party support and as long as the 3rd party are with Sony and MS. They will never have a core market all Nintendo will have to rely upon for consumers are the casuals which with the new tablet and mobile movement that won’t last long. Why have a wii when I can just hook up my tablet to a dock and stream netflix to my TV or play fun and easy games while I am moving about.

    #26 3 years ago
  27. OlderGamer

    PB:

    “Nintendo is not doing well if they were, they wouldn’t have been so quick to reduce the cost of the 3ds …”

    Industry wide, there has been a year on year drop in sales. I believe I read it was around 34%. I blame the lingering economy, globaly. And JP is still realing from the tsunomi. There are more important things then buying new video games. Simply said.

    Also, seemingly to counter that very point, 3DS is Nintendo fastest selling system. Having an affordably manufactureable system allows you to make moves like a price cut, and to be able to do so to actualy boost sales. Unlike Sony(ps3) Nintendos loss on the 3DS is no where near the catastrophy that PS3 was. I don’t even think Nintendo takes a loss on hardware, even after the price cut. I could be wrong tho. But pricing something affordably is sensible.

    I think the tablet and more so the smart phone markets are going to squeze out dedicated handheld systems at some point. That goes for Vita and 3DS. Tho maybe both of those systems will be alright, but their sucsesors could be in trouble.

    Nintendo has been w/o 3rd party support from the N64 onward. They are still here. The thing, their biz model is designed so they don’t have to dominate and be number one in order to break even or turn a profit. Both MS and Sony are prepared to throw millions (or more) away on hardware(and on games in general). They both feel it extends their brandnames. And to an extent they are right. What does MS care about hardware costs when they can sell you and I Live Gold? Or generate cash flows with marketplace sales. Or advertisment placements. It is a name brand they are building. They have been doing for two generations now.

    MS and Sony are not strickly game companies. If you stoped buying xbox games tomorrow MS wouldn’t care. Just so long as you bought something else in favor of it instead. In other words, don’t want to buy a game? How about a Movie? Or a season pass for a TV show? Music pass? Of course we are still going to buy games, so why not that other stuff, plus the games, plus DLC, plus stupid avator outfits/props, plus themes, plus again, the advertisments, the liscencing for stuff like Netflix to Fios TV to ESPN to several other things that MS is no doubt trying to wiggle onto their platform.

    Where were the games on that list again? I love how the new dash, has games about four tabs in. I will say it again MS is not a games company. They never intended to be. That was just the on the flyer to get you into the door. That isn’t to say games aren’t important to MS, of course they. But they aren’t the only thing, maybe not even the biggest thing.

    To Nintendo games are everything.

    I am not too sure what “info” you have that makes you think the next Nintendo system is going to be a bad one? Or a paperweight 2.0 And, PB, please don’t tell me Paperweight 1.0 was Wii, the system was far from DOA, it sold a megaton units, and software.

    “They will never have a core market all Nintendo will have to rely upon for consumers are the casuals which with the new tablet and mobile movement that won’t last long…”

    I think there are a couple of different things going on there. First thing that comes thro is anger. Mostly aimed at the second class gamer your calling a casual. And secondly I think your confused as the what the tablet controler is for Nintendos up and coming system.

    Gamers are gamers. If a person makes a choice buy a game and play a game, that person in my book is a gamer. Be that game Farmvile or World of warcraft. Call of Duty or Kirby: Return to Dreamland. Skyrim or Wii Sports. A game is a game. How arogant is it for one person to look down on another because of the types of games that person plays. And down right silly. I have no problem at all with a person having likes and dislikes. But to put someone in a sub class of person and label them a casual(like it was an evil word). Its absurd.

    This last week I spent prolly 60 hours playing WoW. My wife droped a good 20 into Kingdoms of Amular. Yet we both played a co-op couple of hours on Mario Kart. We also spent some time playing Pinball FX. And I am pretty sure, while at my sons DR apt, my wife played a few stages of angry birds on her cell. So what are we? How do we get labeled? or more importantly why?

    In truth, most gamers prolly play a range of different games. Playing one or another doesn’t somehow make you a more valued (to society)gamer, or a better person. It just means you like a range of different games.

    As for what the Tablet controler is meant to do/be? More details will be headed our way soon. beyond that almost anything is pure speculation. Other then to add a couple things. I doubt Nintendo intended you to walk around on the street with the thing as a stand along mobile gaming device. And second, you can bet your bacon that Sony will interface Vita into not only PS3, but PS4 as well. The PSP conected to the PS3 already. And how much do you want to bet that MS would love to be able to do the same type of thing. Windows Tablets that interface with the Next Xbox?

    But I am hoping that Nintendo will be able to do it in an affordable way that adds to the games themself(not just a mobile purchasing station). Time will tell.

    To DaMan, Dragon, and PB I am not raging or even ranting, just adressing coments aimed at my comments. I can happily agree to disagree. And I do disagree with alot I have read here, not just form you guys. Thats why I spoke up. Sometimes it is nice to get a counter point of view. Nintendo gets a bad rap in gamer circles sometimes, so I stood up. They are far from perfect. And I have rode the MS and Sony trains for as long as most of you. I just am leaning more and more next gen like I might be ready to step off of the same old marry go round. At this point, i am leaning very strongly towards a Next Nintendo system coupled with a new PC gaming rig.

    Only last thought I would have are aimed at you once more PB(sorry lol), but was wondering your thoughts on Mobile gaming. I bet we both would agree that tablets/smart phones will phase out dedictaed handhelds like 3DS and Vita. But you almost sound like you could see a day where your console fit in your pocket, and was just part of a PDA style device. you could use it on the go and still hook it up to your TV when you got home. Maybe use wireless controlers. Sounds almost a bit scifi, but I can imagine that w/o too much trouble in 15 yrs or so. Just wondered what you would say about that?

    #27 3 years ago
  28. Dragon246

    Unfortunately oldergamer ,you forgot to mention that wii sports is bundled with every wii sold except japan. Also those numbers in wikipedia are heavily undercounted in some cases.
    Also sony DID NOT left the race like others in fear of nintendo. Playstation survives even when sony bled heavily. So that shows commitment.
    Also its nintendos own problem if it cannot produce a good mario often. Their are 3 uncharted in 5 years and all were top notch . Thing is even ND got bored from uc even if its a best seller and now they are making something new. But mario remains even after 25-30 years.
    Well in the end these are just opinions.You dont like uncharted , I dont like mario (no storyline, a bummer).

    #28 3 years ago
  29. OlderGamer

    No, I didn’t forget. Kinect Adventures was also packed in with Kinect. So it was the same difference. Just like I didn’t detract sales numbers for Uncharted PS3 bundles. or COD xb360 bundles.

    Sony staying when losing so much money shows deep pockets.

    Ok you can’t have it both ways dragon. You can’t claim that all Nintendo is flood the market with mario, and then claim they stink because they can’t make a good enough mario game to put one out each year. Mario is a little bit like FF. It is a brandname of sorts. You can have an entirly new game with almost every FF release. Same with mario. Sure he is a lot of games, but smash bros, mario kart, galaxy, etc all play very different as they are very different games.

    Uncharted are rock solid top tier games from a top dog of a studio. They just never clicked with me thats all.

    I would be willing to guess that in another 25 years Mario will still be around. I can’t think of too many games today that I would enjoy seeing more of in 25 years. Mario would be one of them tho. I think the games are timeless.

    #29 3 years ago
  30. Joe Musashi

    The thing with Nintendo was they *were* peerless. But that has changed. More competition, higher standards, better games, more variety. Nintendo appear to behave as though they exist in a bubble from 25 years ago. That’s cute and all, but it’s just not realistic.

    I love Nintendo discussions though, very entertaining.

    JM

    #30 3 years ago
  31. polygem

    JM why your “love” for nintendo discussions ;-)

    i actually and unfortunateley don´t have time to post atm and i feel like i cant express myself well enough because english aint my native language -when i am in a rush like now its even worse -apologies.
    BUT i think this thread is indeed interesting, because it kinda shows how much the gaming industry has changed.
    i neglected nintendo current gen pretty much – thats all i can say for myself – i felt like they kinda lost track, focused too much on the casual bla…i was totally wrong. maybe they focus more on the casual market – but they have to – they have no other choice to stay in business – but if you look at HOW they try to achieve that you can easily see that they are very creative. they try to create a mass market for motion control gaming. well you can love or hate it. but that´s innovation and not a lazy or unrisky task.
    what really bothers me is that many people will say nintendo is for kids. it aint “hardcore” and so on.
    it is a shame that many younger gamers wouldn´t play let´s say a great ds game because it has not so good graphics, but still call theirselves hardcore gamers. in fact those people aren´t.
    it´s ok, you know i can look at that with a smile. it bothers me a little from time to time but that´s how this wolrd works.
    but sony and ms are using this for marketing, even gaming journalists are repeating this phrase. what does nintendo do to defend theirselves….well not much, at least not directly marketingwise. they just keep doing their thing. what happens when ms says: “we got exclusive cod DLC first on xbl?”….well sony partners up with ea to create a “cod killer” bf deal. hey that´s ok. but it is a different approach, one i do not find as attractive as the other.
    i feel much better supporting nintendo than either ms or sony. i do not hate those companies. not at all. i wish them all the best and prolly buy on of those systems next gen too.
    i personally feel bad if i have to resell a mario or zelda game. (that´s why i don´t do it) to me it feels like these games have so much more value than the 20 bucks i might get from selling them again and i feel like they will be a hell lot of fun to play even 10 years from now. nintendo games age pretty well most of the time. i have no problem trading other games in, even those i loved to play like halo reach for example or many others i really liked. what that means (at least for me) is that nintendo managed to create emotions, something that makes me holding on to something. this is big. a videogame companies job is to create bubbles. that´s what gamers want. i believe it was good that nintendo stayed in their bubble. the day it pops aint a good day for games. JM you like this kind of stuff right?

    #31 3 years ago
  32. Christopher Jack

    Because Nintendo is either a hate or love it kinda company, you really only get both extremists although it doesn’t necessarily make either side a bunch of rabid fanboys without common sense, both have their logical points & its just generally an interesting debate to watch unfold. I’d think most people on here’d know I dislike Nintendo but that’s simply because I didn’t grow up with their franchises so obviously I have no nostalgia for them. (Pokemon being my exception, but even that’s losing its charm). Frankly I think Nintendo will go the way of Sega

    #32 3 years ago
  33. Da Man

    OlderGamer, Bungie didn’t ‘grow tired’ , they went on to bigger things. They never ‘churned out’ anything, not a single Bungie game was rushed or milked so far. Churn is a term used to describe doing something along the lines of what Acti ‘ve turned CoD into, or what Eidos did to TR in the very late 90s.

    Alex Seropian might ‘ve left because MS took over due to corp policies and obv frustration with that model, but that has zero to do with what you’re assuming.

    IW now I don’t know, but we were talking about MS.. I honestly don’t care for CoD or anything that has to do with it so I don’t really know what happened there, but from what I figured they were dissatisfied with some payment, much like Itagaki when he left Tecmo.

    You make way too many assumptions based on your own perception of computer entertainment.

    Rare failed to make videogames which sell enough, therefore that happened to them. I don’t know what does this have to do with anything again. If Miyamoto games stop selling, they ‘ll cease to exist I assure you. Nobody makes games for themselves.

    I’m saying people enjoy their profession, not that they’re happy to have a job. I was just trying to show you that it’s not as shallow (for lack of better word) as it is from the gamer’s side. ‘I got sick of this game therefore I won’t be making any new assets for it’. That shouldn’t happen. As for your ‘magic’ it happens when people ‘re both qualified and willing, which is what I was saying.

    #33 3 years ago
  34. Phoenixblight

    “Industry wide, there has been a year on year drop in sales. ”

    Researcher numbers are skewed because the Digital distrubutation is growing and no one can get those actual numbers unless Steam and other companies are willing to spill the beans.

    “And, PB, please don’t tell me Paperweight 1.0 was Wii, the system was far from DOA, it sold a megaton units, and software.”

    Yes Wii is Paperweight 1.0 it sold so well because of a gimmick. I bought one and played Zelda and then it collected dust for 6 months until I sold it. BTW I never said that the Wii was DOA. Stop putting words in my mouth.

    “Mostly aimed at the second class gamer your calling a casual”

    Again putting words in my mouth. I am part of the casual crowd because I go to school, work and I am also a parent so I get maybe 3 hours a week to play games.

    “But you almost sound like you could see a day where your console fit in your pocket, and was just part of a PDA style device. you could use it on the go and still hook it up to your TV when you got home”

    Yes I do see consoles going this route. Look at technology over the years. IT gets smaller and more advanced. You can fit the power of a PC in a tablet or a phone. And if you tie in the new Onlive or Galkai to these tablets or phones what do you have? A Mobile gaming device that can handle anything as long as there is an infrastructure to support it. And if you can hook it up to a TV via a dock and give a better resolution then what is stopping us? I suspect it will happen in two decades.

    #34 3 years ago
  35. stealth

    The guy is a laughable joke

    1) The 3ds is doing better than ANY system in history right now

    2) It was the top selling system in 2011, in only 9 months by far.

    3) This year it is the top selling system worldwide so far with over 16 million in sales

    IOS and tablets havent affect anything. Apples and oranges/ different markets

    4) Patcher has been wrong on EVERYTHING, related to nintendo, so what hes doing is actually ensuring the opposite

    Patcher

    The wii wont sell
    The ds wont sell
    The 3ds will sell millions at 250

    WRONG

    Now that the 3ds is breaking records at 170 he cant man up

    #35 3 years ago
  36. stealth

    Next no system sells as much as the wii has ( 100 million units)

    without quality exclusives

    believe it or not, they trump whatever the 360 and ps3 pass off as exclusives

    There is a reason why mario galaxy 1 and 2 are the highest rated games of the gen.

    #36 3 years ago
  37. OlderGamer

    Stealth +1

    #37 3 years ago
  38. Dragon246

    @stealth, the ONLY one trolling here is you. If you cant present unbiased facts then dont bother to troll.
    “There is a reason why mario galaxy 1 and 2 are the highest rated games of the gen.”
    GTA 4 triumphs it both in terms of ratings and SALES. And you know what? It will never come to nintendo platform. And most of the best games of this generation WILL NEVER come to ninty.
    Check it out,
    http://www.metacritic.com/browse/games/score/metascore/all/all?view=condensed&sort=desc
    Also wii selling 100 million is a big deal. Yeah it is. But both ps1 and ps2 sold more than 100 million and ps3 will eventually cross 100 million mark. NO other company including your beloved ninty was not able to do it. Bear with it.
    @OlderGamer, should you support a troll like him ?

    #38 3 years ago
  39. Christopher Jack

    Again, people using individual perspectives as facts. Wii games generally suck, well that’s true, the exception are Nintendo’s own franchises. Outside of Nintendo themselves their have been little success for the Wii.

    #39 3 years ago
  40. Dragon246

    Every platform has its own gems and wii is no exception. Its highest selling platform this generation so it must have done something right. But its gems are fewer because of hardly any 3rd party hits. I never said wii sucks . I am saying that ninty needs to do something innovative this generation too like wii to stay in the core of gaming industry.

    #40 3 years ago
  41. polygem

    to me the wii and ds had the biggest and most shiny gems current gen – by far. i discovered them late and i still can´t believe how foolish i was.
    i think the wiiu concept and the 3ds show that nintensdo is still creative with their hardware decissions. all signs point to more third party support this time around too, so i am more positve about my own feelings regarding the future of nintendo than about patchers predictions. i really cannot see why the wiiu should fail. if they can manage to get much needed and deserved 3rd party support, better online features in a more powerfull hd capable device with good pricing they will sell units like crazy again. add a touchscreen controller for you to have a hud free gaming experience OR being able to play your full blown zelda dungeon in your bed. no brainer. sales…everything we know yet shows that they are aware of this.

    #41 3 years ago
  42. Joe Musashi

    I think Stealth needs to learn the (vast) difference between unit sales and profitability. An investor’s perspective is not the same as a consumer’s. Zealous consumers tend to overlook this.

    JM

    #42 3 years ago

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