Sections

Valve reiterates preference to updating Source Engine, instead of creating Source Engine 2

Tuesday, 18th October 2011 19:08 GMT By Stephany Nunneley

Valve’s Chet Faliszek has said the firm prefers to update its Source Engine as needed, instead of working on a placement, a la Source Engine 2.

Speaking with GamingLives, Faliszek said it that at “some point,” the firm will create a new engine, but for now, updating the 2004 model makes the workload much easier.

“That’s just the way we work with that engine, we’ve just update it not just replace it, and some point we may say there’s Source 2 or whatever, but really for us there’s been a pretty easy way to keep it and understanding the tools,” he said.

“When you replace an engine you’re replacing the tools and the way that people work, there’s an expense in man hours and people learning and people getting up on it right.”

Faliszek’s comments reflect those made by studio boss Gabe Newell in May, when he said there were “advantages on iterating on a mature and stable and shipped codebase, as opposed to starting over again.”

Thanks, PC Gamer.

Breaking news

32 Comments

Sign in to post a comment.

  1. alterecho

    They seem to be doing a pretty job updating it. Some of the visuals in portal 2 are stunning. The water is striking especially.

    #1 3 years ago
  2. Gekidami

    ^ Yeah, but the cost is a shit load of loading.

    #2 3 years ago
  3. Teabag

    I really hope Source Engine 2 comes out with Half Life 3. There should be no other way.

    And whatever maybe said, SE still remains one of the best engines to date. It may not be CryEngine realistic, but it puts up with some great visuals, and runs on pretty any PC.

    #3 3 years ago
  4. Erthazus

    I’m ok with this. Their engine is solid and they can update it quickly.

    #4 3 years ago
  5. MegaGeek1

    @3.. HL3 – ETA 2015 (if we’re lucky)

    #5 3 years ago
  6. OrbitMonkey

    So updating a old engine is ok for Valve, but bad for Sledgehammer?

    #6 3 years ago
  7. DSB

    I was amazed with how well they pulled it off for Portal 2. I wouldn’t have recognized the engine.

    @6 Of course it is. Battlefield fanboys have no beef with Valve.

    #7 3 years ago
  8. Yoshi

    @6 I believe there is a difference between updating the engine for current and upcoming games, and updating the engine for just upcoming games.

    #8 3 years ago
  9. freedoms_stain

    This might be the “public” reasoning, and I’m sure it’s a factor, but I reckon the main thrust of the matter is down to current console hardware.

    If they build a new engine it has to be compatible with the xbox360 and PS3, a lot of time and money for an engine which won’t get much more out of the existing hardware. On a purely economic scale it makes more sense for Valve to stick with their existing engine as long as possible, mod and update it as needed and leave development of any new engine until they have better minimum specs (consoles) to work with.

    #9 3 years ago
  10. Erthazus

    Source engine is not that old to begin with. It’s a 2004 year old engine that is built for modification from the start. In 2011 it supports all major effects for the PC and it was developed for Xbox 360| in 2010 for PS3 in mind.

    IW|SH use 1999 year old code from id Tech 3 and they upgrade it every year and no matter what you do nothing will change because it’s not developed specifically for Ps3 or 360. It’s just an old quake 3 shitty engine that barely at that time supported shaders.

    Id Tech3 was not built for future proof and it’s just a crappy engine right now.

    you can see difference for yourself. Portal 2 looks gorgeous except for textures that are from 2004-2007. But they are not as ugly like in CoD games.

    #10 3 years ago
  11. DSB

    @10 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GoldSrc

    #11 3 years ago
  12. Erthazus

    @11, so? GoldSrc was used for Half-Life, than came out source engine that was heavily developed by Valve.

    #12 3 years ago
  13. DaMan

    OM, you still didn’t figure out this lunatic’s logic, really? Valve is a PC dev first and foremost, this retard believes that he’s entitled to play this genre much like Sony fanboys thought they were entitled to have exclusive FF games. It’s a classic, anyone who’s been around since the days of PS2 vs Xbox witnessed this behaviour countless times. Threatened, cornered pseudo zealots in denial.

    It’s been said again and again that the engine used in MW is as much of a Q3 engine as Source is a Q1 one.
    http://www.cgsociety.org/index.php/CGSFeatures/CGSFeatureSpecial/call_of_duty_4_modern_warfare
    Hmm, Whom to believe, a lunatic who doesn’t know how to draw a triangle on screen or countless sources? Tough one.

    Russia, on the other hand, is the same 1975 UssR spin-off, Putin = Brezhnev. Truth hurts.

    #13 3 years ago
  14. DSB

    @12 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Source_engine

    #14 3 years ago
  15. YoungZer0

    @14: Even if he’d read that he’d still not be able to understand it. We all know he’s lacking any kind of understanding. You can already see this by any of his reactions when you give him a proper contra, he’d say things like “No u!”

    #15 3 years ago
  16. Phoenixblight

    @14

    Don’t bother he can’t draw the lines that the SOurce engine is a heavily modified Gold Source engine which is an engine that is derived from Quake engine.

    #16 3 years ago
  17. absolutezero

    The difference between the Source engine and the CoD engine and peoples relationship to both is tied into what is done with them.

    Each new iteration of Source is made available to all the other devs that are interested in using it, like the updated Dear Esther being moved across onto the Portal 2 engine. The changes to the base engine are used across all games and the differences are highly noticable.

    The CoD engine is used for CoD and has visually changed very very little since MW. So seeing nothing apart from the same warzones in the same style (obviously before someone says as much) leads to people starting to notice that its all the same.

    I guess the other reason is perceived laziness, CoD has a fucking huge captive audience and an even larger budget. So why not invest some of that back into producing a new engine to make it look even more exciting and visually jaw-dropping (like Skyrim for example). Its mainly because they don’t have to, the Call of Duty fanbase is more than happy enough with what the game runs and looks like, horrible hit detection and all.

    #17 3 years ago
  18. Erthazus

    @13, Sorry but you are an idiot as always. Your logic fails again after i had a link many times before.
    There is a difference between developing the engine from scratch, developing new engine using old code or using it for game developing with the old code.

    Thats how C++ is working or maybe Super-Script, but you know shit about programming and you know shit about C++ so you can go GTFO with your google and shitty society of lonely artists.

    Call Of duty games since the first|second game used and (use to this day) a big chunk of code from Id Tech 3 as a core code. Shaders, dynamic lightning, HDR and etc. are the stuff that engine has since IW 2.0 . You can do this with absolutely every engine there is on the planet that is being developed in C++.

    First game in CoD series was developed by Id Tech3 and after that they upgraded it with belts and whistles calling it proprietary engine aka IW 2.0, IW, 3.0, IW 4.0…
    Each engine has the same code, with the same physics, but with better lightning, HDR and etc. (i repeat again because your brain don’t understand it)

    Thats how it works and your link proves it.

    +

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IW_engine here you can see the history of the engine and thats a fact.

    “The engine was first used with Call of Duty 2 in 2005 under a proprietary license by id Tech, as at this time, the engine was a heavily modified version of the Quake III engine.”

    Fact. but to be honest, i don’t need to tell you anything because normal people know that without any links or wikipedia.

    “It was revealed by Sledgehammer Games that the engine is no longer under a proprietary license because the Quake III engine has been written over and the engine is a completely new engine in its own title.”

    this goes for Modern Warare 3.0 only. So what that means? That means that they use new scripts imitating id tech 3 aka reverse engineering and they still use the same thing but with absolutely new language in C++
    which means only that this time at least on PC it will wor correctly and can be modified.

    also, you don’t know what is Russia or Brezhnev living somewhere in the suburbs with friendly rednecks. Also, i don’t live in that country. You miss everytime with your shitty and pathetic insults. Go play Halo with your stupid friends because you can’t think of something new and fresh. Or better go to Wallstreet and show the love, maybe they will hear you out someday.

    #18 3 years ago
  19. DSB

    @15, 16 I realize that, but some things just deserve to speak for themselves.

    I’ve finally figured out who he really is though. It’s Dwight from The Office.

    You know which engine is the best? BEARS.

    #19 3 years ago
  20. YoungZer0

    @19: Haha, oh … that’s totally accurate.

    @18: “also, you don’t know what is Russia or Brezhnev living somewhere in the suburbs with friendly rednecks. Also, i don’t live in that country.”

    So … you don’t live there but know more than he does? How so?

    “Go play Halo with your stupid friends because you can’t think of something new and fresh.”

    Says the guy who complains about every little new feature. “Stupid console instinct mode.” “Stupid new Twilight console hair.” You might not remember what you said two minutes ago, but we do.

    “Or better go to Wallstreet and show the love, maybe they will hear you out someday.”

    That doesn’t even make sense in the slightest. Doesn’t surprise me though. Better not talk about politics, that’s a topic for adults.

    #20 3 years ago
  21. Erthazus

    @16, Thanks, Sherlock. Thats how engines are developed in C++. but it’s not using the core mechanics from Quake 1 at all.

    You can ask anybody who used Source SDK. It’s completely different thing.

    It’s logical. All engines are developed from the past codes that are working. but that does not mean that it is based on it’s old core.

    There is a difference. Source main cores are at the “Notable Technology”. that it’s core mechanics.

    #21 3 years ago
  22. Erthazus

    “So … you don’t live there but know more than he does? How so?”

    Because i live in the country where are a lot of people from Russia, Ukraine and Post soviet countries and a lot of people from USA and UK.

    Everything else is your typical insults. Sorry man, but i don’t care what you think about my opinion. If you don’t like me and my opinion you should ignore them/me. It’s really easy.

    #22 3 years ago
  23. DaMan

    Lulz, I’ve said it numerous times, that the original CoD used an engine based on Q3 one (so wtf are you arguing about there? follow the conversation please) , and later with each iteration it was more and more modified, leading to MW (2007) having about as much left as the aforementioned Source has compared to Q1.

    If you’d say that MW3 will use the same engine as MW1 then that would be kind of true, since it changed only marginally, but the fact that you, retard who believes an engine can update and one speed and a videocard can draw that at another, and can’t put a coherent sentence together, firmly believe your own ignorant made up lunacy is beyond lulz. Say, how to draw a cube? No, this is a question. You’re a dumbass. The fact that there’re 20 years olds like you says a lot about decadent soviet society.

    I still fail to see why you even come here. Usually people visit websites to discuss and share opinions,

    I live closer to you than any of the other visitors, dumbfuck. As I said, Russia = Ussr spin-off. Same engine!

    #23 3 years ago
  24. YoungZer0

    @22: So? I live in a country with a lot of Turks. Doesn’t make me an expert on Turkish culture. Hell, my parents are Russians. I was born in Kazakhstan. Doesn’t make me an expert on Kazakh culture. Nor does it make THEM experts on Russian culture.

    But i guess you think differently about those things.

    :D

    #24 3 years ago
  25. DaMan

    this goes for Modern Warare 3.0 only. So what that means? That means that they use new scripts imitating id tech 3 aka reverse engineering and they still use the same thing but with absolutely new language in C++

    LMAO!

    Erthazus, you’re officially the most moronic person I ‘ve met on the internet, comrade. AKA ebani mudak ;)

    Oh, and
    Each engine has the same code, with the same physics, but with better lightning, HDR and etc.
    Rendering engine is easier to do / irrelevant than physics or gameplay apparently. Stupendously amazing. Erthazus probably believes the hardest thing to do in Q3 was the crosshair logic.

    First person camera and twitch blast happy gameplay= Q3 engine. What they’ve changed otherwise is irrelevant! Can’t beat that logic.

    #25 3 years ago
  26. Anders

    Entertaining as always.

    #26 3 years ago
  27. viralshag

    @26, You know it. I wish I was a game designer and had full knowledge of this software stuff so I could just give a decisive answer, even though some people probably still wouldn’t listen to it.

    #27 3 years ago
  28. DaMan

    Err, and Errza.

    C++ doesn’t ‘work’, it’s a language you can write in. Just like that abomination of english you’re attempting to urinate all over these board. Do you know what Superscript is?

    #28 3 years ago
  29. OrbitMonkey

    Well i’m a complete luddite when it comes to engines and whatnot, but thats not the issue here. I made a simple observation, to simply see if their was a logical reason for accepting 1 old engine being updated over another…

    Nope ;)

    #29 3 years ago
  30. DaMan

    This cracks me up though, again and again.

    this goes for Modern Warare 3.0 only. So what that means? That means that they use new scripts imitating id tech 3 aka reverse engineering and they still use the same thing but with absolutely new language in C++

    A new engine. Because they ‘ve rewritten just about everything already (that already happened by the time MW1 came out but Erthazus is in denial). But anyway, they use some ‘new scripts’ (whatever that means.. That they use Lua? Or that Erthazus calls cpp or c files scripts? Or that Erthazus calls C++ code fragments scripts?), which is the same as reverse engineering! Right. But they’re imitating! Imitating the holy PC game called Quake. And the end result is that it’s the same engine but in new language like C++…

    Okay.

    Notice how which means only that this time at least on PC it will wor correctly and can be modified.
    That’s right, on PC. All ‘that’ means the PC version will be better.

    And I’m done.

    Gotta go now, excuse me. Just in case soviets will be lurking around here in the night.

    #30 3 years ago
  31. absolutezero

    Hey I gave you a perfectly reasonable explanation as to why people are fed up with CoDs old engine while readily accepting regular updates of Source.

    It got blanked out like so much white noise I suppose.

    #31 3 years ago
  32. OrbitMonkey

    @31 Yes, yes very reasonable… but completely subjective and simply not true for the majority of folk who will quite happily give the CoD engine shit, but leave the Source engine be.

    1) CoD is very very popular amongst casual gamers and made by Activision (boo, hiss)

    2) Source engine made by Valve (heavenly choir) and who are loved by all the *hardcore* pc crowd.

    Its that simple really. Though i will completely accept that its not the reason you as a individual have a gripe with the worlds most popular FPS ;)

    #32 3 years ago