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John Carmack: Full RAGE 360 install to weigh in at 22Gb

Monday, 8th August 2011 12:16 GMT By Johnny Cullen

Ouch.

id’s John Carmack has said that those who’ve bought and opted to install a 360 version of RAGE will find themselves with 22Gb less space on their HDD.

For reference sake, id’s Tim Willits told VG247 last year in France that the game would come on two discs for 360, while the PS3 version would be on one Blu-ray.

In terms of the install itself, Carmack gave a simple ultimatum in his Quakecon keynote (as spotted by TSA): everything or nothing.

“On the 360 we don’t have a partial install option; it’s all or nothing, which is kind of unfortunate,” he said. “It means you have to install 21/22GB of stuff which takes a long time but if you’ve got it and you play it on the 360 that’s the way to go.”

RAGE releases on October 4 in the US and October 7 in the UK for PS3, 360 and PC.

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70 Comments

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  1. Blerk

    So it’s impossible to play from disc? Amazed Microsoft let that by, to be honest.

    #1 3 years ago
  2. Prof.Dr.Moertel

    I think L.A. Noire was 24 GB, so it´s okay for me ^^

    #2 3 years ago
  3. Blerk

    Incidentally, 22gb sounds like three discs, not two.

    #3 3 years ago
  4. HauntaVirus

    yep, it’ll be 3 discs for xbox.

    @1
    It doesn’t require the install but it’s strongly recommended for best performance.

    #4 3 years ago
  5. StolenGlory

    @3

    I wouldn’t have said it was impossible to play from disc – more like a pain in the crackhole to be honest.

    The 22GB figure when taken alongside the three-discs (one is for multiplayer, the other two for the single-player) that the game is shipping on indicates to me at least, that those nerdy techies over at ID are getting funky with some serious compression tech :)

    #5 3 years ago
  6. Blerk

    So something doesn’t make sense.

    If it’s possible to play from disc then the 360′s own ‘install’ functionality should allow you to install the discs one at a time, which reduces the on-HDD size and removes the up-front mega-install, and invalidates the ‘no partial install’ comment.

    If it’s not that and it is actually a ‘proper’ install, then it’d be impossible to play it from disc, surely?

    #6 3 years ago
  7. Erthazus

    If it’s 22 GB on 360…

    then how much on the PC? 30+ ?
    What can you expect from a game that have megatextures?

    @blerk, are you from some “Noob Island”? It’s a huge game. 360 dvd drive speed is not enough for this so install is required.

    #7 3 years ago
  8. DaveDogg

    would imagine it will be either install or not rather than full or partial in any case there are a fair few machines around still with 20GB HHD’s around and of course the 4GB “s” models. as i remeber reach was patched fairly quickly to work on those

    #8 3 years ago
  9. HauntaVirus

    In his keynote he said that RAGE is over a TERABYTE when everything is uncompressed!

    #9 3 years ago
  10. Blerk

    @7, So where would that leave the PS3 version with its even-slower drive?

    It’s not about speed, it’s about what Microsoft have allowed in the past. There have been a very small handful of games which have required a hard drive, most of which were very early in the 360′s life. If it turns out that this can’t be played from disc that’s a very significant policy shift from Microsoft themselves.

    #10 3 years ago
  11. StolenGlory

    @7

    Don’t insult Blerk Erth, he was just debating the ‘partial install’ wording.

    And let’s be honest here, anybody who in their heart of hearts fully believes that ID and by proxy, their money grabbing parent company Bethesda, would not want the game to reach the largest audience possible needs to be put in a shit-filled metal box and fired into the sun.

    They won’t make an install for this game mandatory. Period. Sure, you’ll suffer in comparison to the other folks who can do the mega-install, but it won’t be something that prevents you from just loading up the damn thing and playing it regular like.

    #11 3 years ago
  12. pukem0n

    well, most people will have 250gb hard drives by now, so this really isnt a problem. or am i missing something?
    people without a hard drive are impaired in every game, so thats nothing new…

    #12 3 years ago
  13. Aimless

    @10 The game can be played off disk, however installing the game to the 360′s HDD should lead to fewer instances where there’s notable texture draw-in; the game’s constantly streaming data due to the whole megatexture aspect, and a hard drive has better access times than a DVD.

    Naturally you don’t have to install all the disks if you aren’t up to that part of the game, either. When Carmack references the lack of a “partial install” he’s talking about the method they’re using on the PS3, where some amount of data will be installed to the HDD with the game streaming the rest off disk. Similarly they can use the PS3′s hard drive to temporarily cache data as they can be sure everyone has the hardware.

    That’s not to say it’ll necessarily lead to better streaming performance than an installed 360 version — that really depends on the specifics of their implementation — but it will mean a smaller install, unless you intend to forego installing on the 360 altogether; I wouldn’t recommend it.

    #13 3 years ago
  14. StolenGlory

    @13

    Yes! Precisely!

    #14 3 years ago
  15. OrbitMonkey

    So I can assume a similar mega-install for the ps3? That’s gonna sting if your running a old 40-80 gb fatty o_O

    Can we expect the same from Skyrim?

    #15 3 years ago
  16. Blerk

    That’s much clearer now, Aimless – good show.

    #16 3 years ago
  17. ManuOtaku

    Now i have quite a conumdrum with this issue, basecally my 120 gb ps3 is getting closer to 111 gb, and my 360 has almost 69 gb free space, but i dont want to put 22 gb on it only for this, what to do??, arghhhhhhhh

    #17 3 years ago
  18. Blerk

    Wait and see which version is ‘best’? Or if it’s any good, even. :-D

    #18 3 years ago
  19. G1GAHURTZ

    TWENTY TWO GIGS!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

    THIS IS AN OUTRAGE!!!!

    #19 3 years ago
  20. noherczeg

    #19

    I’d call it “content” and not outrage.

    #20 3 years ago
  21. Aimless

    @15 By the sounds of it the install will be as big as id can get away with. Probably somewhere in the 4-8GB range.

    @17 You could always buy a 500GB HDD for your PS3; it’ll run you about £50, less if you shop around. I imagine there’s a decent wedge of stuff you could delete off your current drive, though. And you wouldn’t need to do a full-fat install on 360, unless you were jumping back and forth between the first and second halves of the game for some reason.

    #21 3 years ago
  22. Christopher Jack

    I believe that the PS3 disk drive reads blu rays faster than the 360 reads dual layer DVDs. Curious to know how fast the PS3 reads dual layer DVDs & if it could have been a viable alternative to single layer blu rays for smaller games.

    #22 3 years ago
  23. deathgaze

    Dat’sa spicy meataball!

    #23 3 years ago
  24. Dralen

    WO! That is one big game.

    #24 3 years ago
  25. Lloytron

    “On the 360 we don’t have a partial install option; it’s all or nothing, which is kind of unfortunate,”

    Unfortunate, and also not true. L.A. Noire allows you to individually install and uninstall each disk.

    #25 3 years ago
  26. OrbitMonkey

    @21 Well isn’t Rage open world? What If you need to change disc’s to travel to end of the map to another? Unless you install of course… Face it your just better off installing this, sounds like a bit of a beast o_O

    #26 3 years ago
  27. M. K.

    I’m fine with my 60GB HDD and I wouldn’t have any problems installing it. But I have problems making me buy it, because it looks boring :F

    #27 3 years ago
  28. NeoSquall

    in b4 broken/overheated consoles by the game being run from the disc.

    #28 3 years ago
  29. someguy2

    @26 LA Noire was open world, not once did I have to change my disc because I wanted to go to the other side of the map.

    #29 3 years ago
  30. Erthazus

    I’m still curious to see, if they are really implemented 60 frames per second for PS3 and 360 (if i’m not mistaken… Someone said about it). If i remember, Xbox 360 when tried to run RAGE… suddenly it crashed. It was last year presentation.
    My PS3? Oh jesus… I remember playing Heavy Rain on my PS3… it barely runs 30 frames per second and i had 2 system shut downs.

    anyway, thank god that i’m going to play this on PC. At least there won’t be mambo jambo about it and i really hope that ID will make a system update for ULTRA pack which Carmack promised. Textures are scaled down because of the consoles and it’s very sad. very, very sad to see a developer that pushed the PC hardware to it’s limits.

    I wish that ID software next time will develop DOOM 4 specifically for PC and port it to consoles because… I hate it when ID develop for each console and PC… Basically PC recieves a huge amount of work and optimizations because consoles can’t do that… or that… or this. So you get a 50% cut content.

    @Stolenglory, “Don’t insult Blerk Erth”

    No, i don’t insult Blerk. He is a good guy, i’m just joking and he know it.

    @CJ,
    “I believe that the PS3 disk drive reads blu rays faster than the 360 reads dual layer DVDs.”

    Playstation fanboy believes again. Make. Believe. Sony.

    Ahaha… Jesus christ *washing his hands from this filth*. You crack me up CJ, your fanboyism sometimes even worse than TEA’s. He just saying that “because of the games blah blah blah”.

    for your information, blu ray and DVD driver on the PS3 is much slower than on the 360.
    Blu-ray – 2x, DVD – 8x on the PS3.
    DVD – 12x DVD with nice (65.6–132 Mbit/s) – XBOX 360.

    Keep dreaming Sony fanboy. I hope that Kaz Hirai is not your GF… XD

    #30 3 years ago
  31. KrazyKraut

    arcade owner r fuqed

    @Erth
    dont act like this. Or should I find your gametrailers “xbox360 vs. ps3″ article again?

    #31 3 years ago
  32. Christopher Jack

    @30, Clearly you’re unaware of the slow down on dual layer disks, the rest of your comment aimed at me is just pointless trolling.

    #32 3 years ago
  33. YoungZer0

    @31: You mean this one: http://www.gametrailers.com/users/Erthazus/gamepad/ ?

    @32: Best just to ignore his stupid comments all together, i mean he actually just said that the Blu-Ray Player on the 360 is faster than on PS3.

    I don’t even think he’s a PC Fanboy anymore, i actually think he’s a fanboy of stupidity, arrogance and ignorance.

    #33 3 years ago
  34. Erthazus

    @31, so how i act here? Did i said something about Xbox 360 vs PS3? I just speculate on the HDD space capacity and how it will work.
    Also, that article is fantastic. :D

    @CJ, it’s you who don’t know about Dual Layer.

    The Blu-ray drive itself isn’t faster, there is just more data in BD disk to read.

    #34 3 years ago
  35. Christopher Jack

    @34, Wasn’t talking about the drive being faster, I was talking about read speeds.

    #35 3 years ago
  36. Telepathic.Geometry

    As far as I know there are still some 20GB PS3s out in the wild, so 22GB is surely off the table, as is (presumably) 20 or 19, or anywhere near that theoretical limit of just under 20, considering downloads and patches and whatnot.

    #36 3 years ago
  37. Joe_Gamer

    Thank god I’m getting it for PC, my xbox HDD is only 20gb, lol. If only I could replace it with a normal HDD instead of a “MS certified, marked up 150% for no good god damn reason HDD” Serves me right for being a loyal early adopter, won’t make that mistake again.

    #37 3 years ago
  38. Aimless

    @34 Christopher Jack is referring to the differences between Constant Angular Velocity (DVD) and Constant Linear Velocity (Blu-ray).

    When reading contiguous data the PS3 theoretically has an advantage, however the 360′s DVD drive has better seek speeds which tends to be better when it comes to games as a lot of the time they aren’t accessing data in a linear fashion.

    The actual structure of data on the disk is a large factor in whether the PS3′s disk drive is an impediment or an advantage, but that’s an area of optimisation that tends to get overlooked or simply isn’t deemed worthwhile, especially when dealing with multi-format games.

    #38 3 years ago
  39. Christopher Jack

    @37, You can, since that’s essentially what they use in an ugly grey casing. But it requires hacking-& you wonder why some people are dedicated to the modding community. There’s no reason why MS hands us a 200% mark up, they’re making chumps out of us.

    #39 3 years ago
  40. stretch215

    This game us a definite pass for me (at least at launch). It just doesn’t excite me at all. The videos really don’t impress me at all.

    #40 3 years ago
  41. Joe_Gamer

    For the fanboys arguing about which disc drive is faster, A)who gives a shit. B)there are two factors at play with physical media, disc speed(rpm’s, X2, X4, X8, etc) and data density. Blu-ray has a much, much higher data density than the dvd based xbox format this means that if speed is equal blu-ray is faster. 360 reads at 12X(2,400–6,000RPM’s) and the PS3 does only read at 2X(400-1,000RPM’s) which would put the xbox ahead except for the fact that the Xbox drive is a “constant angular velocity” which means it only runs at one speed so the outside of the disc can be read at 120 some Mbps(360discs are not optimized well and the very outside, fastest edge is unusable) but the closer you get to the middle the slower the data reads will get, down to around 44 Mbps in the very center, The PS3 has a variable velocity drive which will speed up as you get closer to the inside maintaining the desired read speed of a constant 72Mbps. This brings the “average” read speeds of both devices so close together as to be fundamentally indistinguishable from one another so again I say, who gives a shit? The HDD on a PC blows them both out of existence.

    #41 3 years ago
  42. Fin

    @41

    Definitely A)

    #42 3 years ago
  43. Christopher Jack

    @41, You can install a 7200rpm HDD to the PS3 too (& the 360 as well but via hack). A solid state drive is really the only thing to beat that as far as I know.

    #43 3 years ago
  44. mtmind2

    @22 & @32, no that’s a myth, one which is opposite to what the game developers say. The DVD drive in the 360 is faster than the Blu-ray drive in the PS3 (that’s why many PS3 games use the option of a compulsory HDD install to improve load times).

    It’s true DVD reads dual layer discs slower than single layer discs, and it’s a fact that all 360 games come on dual layer discs, but 360′s DVD drives are “12x dual layer” (see the specs), not 12x as rated on PCs, which would be for single layer discs. As a result, 360′s DVD drives are rated as 16x when used as PC drives, which is also confirmed when searching the internet for replacement drives (eg. google: ‘xbox 360 ms28 16x’).

    Therefore for DVD, that’s 12x dual layer for 360 vs 8x for PS3′s Blu-ray drive (not sure if that’s 8x SL or DL, I suspect it’s the former).

    DVDs are also fastest on the outer track and slowest on the inner track, where DVD on the 360 offers about 16MBps on the outer track and 8MBps on the inner track. Blu-ray on the PS3 is a constant 9MBps throughout the disc. Hence as with previous gens, devs will organise the disc so that data they need to read fastest is on the outermost part of the disc, with the innermost areas reserved for data where speed isn’t important, such as music, voice, menus etc.

    Therefore on average, 360′s DVD drive is about 12MBps, or about 1/3rd faster than PS3′s Blu-ray drive (and more if the data is organised efficiently), the downside is that the DVDs are spun significantly faster than Blu-ray discs, resulting in a lot more noise and the possibility of scratches.

    #44 3 years ago
  45. Joe_Gamer

    @44 Xbox is probably slightly faster on average but I doubt it’s noticeable in any way, though I wonder if there is just less information being loaded for xbox games than for PS3 games? I suppose none of us are elecrical engineers/game developers so who knows for sure, the fact that neither console is beating the other over the head with it’s “superior load times” tells me that they are close enough not to matter.

    edit: I just realized you were using Megabytes per second and I was using Megabits per second, sooooo I’ll just take out this shit here about you being wrong, lol, in fact you are absolutely right.

    #45 3 years ago
  46. OrbitMonkey

    Ooh tech spec arguments! *FAP FAP FAP*

    #46 3 years ago
  47. manamana

    And whats the big deal about the gamesize? I wouldn’t mind the install, if the game is any good. Btw: The bunch of nextgen consoles should play in the same league with more detailed textures as a standard……..thinking of that, which kind of discformat will the nextgen be?

    #47 3 years ago
  48. Joe_Gamer

    Everything old will become new again, in 2007 Bethesda’s Todd Howard told EGM that “Drive speed matters more to me [than capacity], and Blu-ray is slower,” straight from the developers mouth, I guess the 360 drive is quicker.

    http://www.joystiq.com/2007/01/17/ps3s-blu-ray-drive-speed-could-be-reason-for-oblivion-delay/

    #48 3 years ago
  49. viralshag

    @47, Who knows, right? I really hope it’s MiniDisc though… they were cool, right? Right? o.O

    #49 3 years ago
  50. DSB

    All your HDD are belong to us.

    Really though, for that ammount of space, you can install both Borderlands and Fallout 3. Blatant trolling? Yes I do.

    @46 U-seddit.

    #50 3 years ago
  51. Maximum Payne

    I just comment now to be on next page :)

    #51 3 years ago
  52. manamana

    @viralshag no way – its got to be the iomega Zip-drive!

    #52 3 years ago
  53. N2O1990

    >“On the 360 we don’t have a partial install option; it’s all or nothing, which is kind of unfortunate,”

    is that mean this game will be like Forza 3/4(you don’t need to change disc if you fully installed)

    #53 3 years ago
  54. ManuOtaku

    Guys speaking of which, and it is somewhat related, like i mentioned before, thanks for the member that responded me, i have a 500 gb external Hard Drive for my ps3, but i cannot put in it the games that i did download, and /or the DLC for the games, and/or the needed instalations, i think it is in the gaming folder, but the external hard drive only lets me save on it the gaming saving data, therefore i check the ps3 and theres is one option back up, therefore the question is i can back up everthing on the hard drive and then erase it on the ps3?, it can be accesed when i do start some old game from the back up or i need to installed again?, again this is related because i think i will need all the space available just for this game, i didnt decide yet which console i will be picking it up.

    #54 3 years ago
  55. Christopher Jack

    @54, Sorry man, I believe your only option is to upgrade, if you use a huge amount of data, I’d recommend looking at getting a 1tb hdd. Remember, any 2.5″ SATA hdd will run in the PS3, the same HDD you would shove into a laptop.

    #55 3 years ago
  56. ManuOtaku

    Thanks Christopher, but the thing is iam not savy on this thing and to tell you the truth iam petrified to open my console and put an internal hard drive, i know there is a high chance for me to screw things up, so i go the safest way external, well i think i will be picking it up on the 360 then, hey by the way do you did a back up operation do you know how it goes, maybe i can do that on the external hard drive?

    #56 3 years ago
  57. Phoenixblight

    @56

    http://www.gamespot.com/features/6176090/how-to-upgrade-your-playstation-3-hard-drive

    #57 3 years ago
  58. ManuOtaku

    #57 thanks i will check that at my home.

    #58 3 years ago
  59. Christopher Jack

    I’m not a tech savvy person myself, but I managed to upgrade with ease. That guide seems to completely skip the part where you need to install the latest firmware update onto some form of external storage, better off watching this guide, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2d3JCMHL4o

    it too doesn’t mention it since the requirement is newish, just download it from here http://au.playstation.com/ps3/support/system-software/detail/item384081/Update-features-%28ver-3-66%29/
    you will have to put the file into a folder named “UPDATE” & put that folder into another one called “PS3″ which I would leave at the top of the external storage directory if I were you, it has to be in caps in the exact way I’ve written it, to make it simpler, follow ‘method 2′ on this guys post http://www.absolute-playstation.com/playstation-network/expert-playstation-3-hardware-accessory-help-playstation3-ps3-console/6709-how-update-playstation-3-firmware.html.

    #59 3 years ago
  60. Mike W

    @ManuOtaku

    It’s really easy bro, the hardest part is that damn blue screw.

    #60 3 years ago
  61. Mike W

    As for this article, it’s unfortunate for the players that have a 20gb 360 they either have to buy MS’s hard drive or buy a whole new system all together. Sucks for the player, great for MS.

    #61 3 years ago
  62. ultramega

    It makes perfect sense, and is completely understandable, if you watch his keynote. The whole thing is a very interesting listen anyways.

    #62 3 years ago
  63. minxamo

    Welp, i suppose it’s about time i get rid of this 20gb HDD and buy a decent one.
    I only wish Microsoft didn’t charge so much for so little.

    #63 3 years ago
  64. Mike W

    I was just over at Eurogamer and boy oh boy the comment section for this same article is beyond words. The inbreeds over at Digital Foundry are going to have a field day when they get the chance to put this title under their microscope. I can see it now, their “precious” 360 is going to get a pass on the title seeing how big the install is and they’re going to rag on the PS3 for the littlest thing and praise the PC version of game. Mark my words, this is the power of the internet. When a bunch of fanboy fucks make up some mysterious device that counts pixels and frames (that is only approve by them and no one else) and make 1000s of people believe their bullshit.

    #64 3 years ago
  65. Christopher Jack

    @61, Or melt their 360 by trying to run it from the disk :P
    Unlikely unless you already have poor ventilation but running a powerful game on top of it like Rage or L.A. Noire won’t help any.

    #65 3 years ago
  66. strikkebil

    gamesradar said it ran alot better on 360 than ps3. so i dont care about this. i can understand ppl who have old xboxes dont like it. but i dont see what the big deal is really. isnt it optional?

    #66 3 years ago
  67. daytripper

    some of you have to be trolling and not serious.

    #67 3 years ago
  68. DaMan

    #64 Cool story, brah.

    #68 3 years ago
  69. Henry

    360′s install is optional. (except Forza3)

    So, if you don’t have 22GB of space, just don’t install and play by discs. That’s all.

    And even if you choose to install, you can install only the disc you are playing. That’s only 6-7GB.

    btw, if the game comes on 2 discs, how can it store 22GB data?

    #69 3 years ago
  70. Christopher Jack

    @69, Compression? Haven’t you ever installed a PC game?

    #70 3 years ago