Hotz on South American “vacation,” lawyer fights back

Who vacations…. to South America?? I mean, about 90% of trips going there are to in order to flee countries

Tons of people vacation in south america. It is a little early in the game to be accusing anyone of fleeing the country. He has nothing to flee from yet… anyway. Maybe someone should just assassinate him so we no longer have to read about this crap.

“You have to remember that Mr. Hotz didn’t choose to fight this battle.”

Nah, but he did choose to hack the PS3, then he did choose to post the root key on the internet and he did choose to break the PS3 end user agreement.

@3 Agreed. There’s a persistent suggestion that GeoHot is somehow unaware of how all of this started and how he’s somehow not responsible for his own actions.

Maybe it’s like involuntary bowel movements but with hacking.

it’s such a shame how Sony are messing around with the courts head into making Hotz provide stuff that is not possible, such as retrieving the release code from the internet back:/

I really hope Sony loses this court!

they are doing all in their power to make Hotz lose the court case, meaning going through illegal extreme length!

And the most interesting part is, the hacked code…as it impact the ps3 game sales?????

it’s just ridiculous!

only 5% out of 100% would pirate games. Real piracy exist with pc gamers!

@6

5% of 1billion is still 50million, not that those are the real figures but acting like 5% is nothing is so naive.

This guy is pathetic.

Sony is a big bully anyway. Hope sony loses this so we get more control on their console.

Who cares, if he loses, this will probably go the way of the iphone if the supreme court gets involved.

@2 Give me five million euros and I’ll travel to South America to find and terminate his life.

j/k

I was actually cheering for this little fuck! I don’t know if he really is on vacation, or if he used donation money for his little runway trip. But the problem here is it doesn’t look good at all. He should have thought what people would think (especially those supporting him) when they saw the pic he took from his vacation. He’s there chillaxing with an LG shirt (yeah…) AND apparently a diamond/platinum/i dunno cross. We don’t know if that’s his or not, but it raises questions. Even if he was allowed to leave the country, still, he should’ve stayed, this doesn’t look like “he’s putting his heart in this case”! Also, why take those components from the HDDs? C’mon, he took them out on purpose! He knows he’s fucked! Who the hell goes on vacation while they’re is a case going on against them?! I invite/dare everyone to look at that photo (it’s everywhere on n4g) and tell me that this stupid fuck is taking this seriously! Geohot….or as his mom calls him, Georgie, may have had honest intentions, but his current actions make him look guilty.

So exactly what part of the EULA did Hotz break?

“Also, why take those components from the HDDs”

Did you read the story? The “component” that was missing was a hard drive controller. If someone asked for my hard drives I wouldn’t provide the controller either… I’m not sure anyone would.

Edit – Actually, scratch that, I’ve just read that he actually removed the onboard controller (i.e. the circuitry screwed into the hard drive itself), which yeah… pretty fucking stupid thing to do.

he’s 21, if messing about with hardware is fun for the guy then it’s a hobby, but it doesn’t stop the fact that programers and Art designers spend months of work for it to be given away for free.
If Sony was smart they’d get him to hack xbox live and shut it down.

@crysis

stfu and don’t reply to me son

@12

so because of this court case scenario, you expect him to dress like a homeless man?

Do you know that there are many Sony slave and sony supporter media out there? And they’ve done nothing but bash Geohot and support Sony. Now you are falling for the trash allegation saying “he’s on vacation”.

If people are not sony fanboys, they would defend him. Because a company as no right to selling a feature to you and later remove that feature you paid for! It is breach of terms and illegal!

But someone hacking his own console he paid for which is rightfully his and he distributed how to hack is now doing something more illegal than Sony?

Same media who praised him and made him famous for breaking the iphone since they all reported on him. Now all are against him.

@13 Presumably this information is available to you by consulting the details of the lawsuit that Sony filed. I’m not sure why you’re asking people who won’t know the answer to your question when you could be asking people that do.

@14 HDD controllers are typically a chip (or chips) embedded onto the circuitry of the HDD. So to provide an HDD without the HDD controller someone would have to forcibly remove it first. Sure, it’s possible to replace them if an HDD is provided without them – but that doesn’t stop the fact that forcibly removing them when instructed to provide your HDD is a dick move.

@16, Grow up you child, if I annoy you that much, you could always y’know-ignore me, but no, that’s too simple for your childish mind to comprehend. Heck, I don’t even know why you hate, did me calling you a child really hurt you that much? What a softy, maybe if you didn’t swear & act like an elitist & a hypocrite so often I wouldn’t have called you one.

Also you only vaguely understand what you’re arguing about, do some research & learn what you’re fighting about before becoming a blind extremist about it.

I am thinking this could be one more reason to push forward with Cloud/Streaming game services.

Lets say this does go the way of iPhone, and the courts rule that you do own the hardware you buy afterall. You can do whatever you like with it. Would seem like while Hotz didn’t directly lead to any actual damage to the PS3 platform software/hardware saleswise, that down the line someone could release publicly stuff that will impact Sonys direct line.

Thats what Sony is affraid of.

I feel that is why Sony is going bullistic over this. They are trying to paint Hotz(and its easy to do) evil and miliscious, then brand all hobby hackers the same, then display the “Need” for stricter controls(and pens) against hardware tampering.

They are trying to make an example out of him, as I have said yesterday.

I really feel that will be hard to convince the courts that consumers don’t own what they buy.

Much of the user end agreements we have are out dated and wrong, imo. I fire up something I buy at the store and I can’t even use it w/o clicking “I agree”. There is no option for “I don’t agree”. And the fine print is often a link to another destination and/or several pages of eye straining fonts sizes.

Just bare with me, lets say you buy a new game. Yoy get home, take the time to read that fine print, find you don’t agree, the store won’t take it back. Your stuck. You can’t read that EUA in the store, its on the game disc, in the game booklet, or a link to a website.

You get your PS3 home, get it out of the box, and as your setting it up, you come across the EUA: “what do you mean I can’t use linix”?, you ponder. “I remember reading that I could”. “No I don’t agree to that!”

Can you return the system to the store? Not where I live.

All of the power and control rests with the coperations, and none of it with you. None.

And other things, dumb things. I have a toaster, does that mean that I can’t cook Ego Waffles in it? My Microwave comes with preset buttons for several foods, but it doesn’t have a button for last nights leftovers, does that mean I shouldn’t be able to warm them up? Is my coat rack only for coats, what about hats?

Here are a couple that hit closer to our video game home: Sony allows you to replace/modify the PS3s HDD space, how is modifying the OS any different? Because it is a PS3 gamepad, does that mean you can’t buy an adapter that allows it work on your xb360?

For me this issue isn’t about some hot head punk kid(and yes from my perspective 22yr old is still a kid), this is about consumer rights. You buy it, you own it. Simple. Its an issue that will prolly get revisited several times going forward. And ultimatly the courts will have the last say.

@17: Yeah, I just read that he’d removed that bit. I’d assumed they were talking about a controller such as this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disk_array_controller

@19: ” You buy it, you own it.”

Agreed. However, it’s important to understand just WHAT it is you’re buying. It’s not always what the consumer assumes it is.

@21, Agreed, there seems to be mass confusion between what you own when you buy something with software, not many people can tell the difference between what you actually own & what you’ve been granted a licensed to use.

#21 no, is pretty clear, sony stated that Other S will be fully supported for the entiry lifecicle of the PS3, so you own the ps3 to play games and to have other S, when sony did took it away, they deceive the consumers and pretty much steal from the consumers, because they do not compesate them for this. plain and simple wrong, what Geo did was foolish, because he did use his name, he should do it anonymously, very foolish and wrong too.

#19 i agree with you very spot on comment, except for the “courts will have the last say” part, again who made the law (and those who paid the law), also made the loopholes and tricks in order to avoid it, so that is not an assuring thing, becuase in the end, most of the time, wins the one that owns most money.sad but true

@17 Because some people here are claiming that he apparently broke the end user license agreement.

I’m asking them to explain to me how exactly, because I’m working on the realistic assumption that they don’t actually know.

@22 There is no confusion here at all. When you own something, it is your property and you can do whatever the hell you want to it.

The law only comes into question if you do something illegal, and even then it’s you that is held accountable, and the law is focused on you, not the object. The object is simply used as a point of evidence.

@23, While it was a jerky move on Sony’s behalf, it’s because of hackers like GeoHot that they removed it & because it’s a service that they provide they are entitled to remove it, it happens everywhere for phones, to games, to even websites.

@24.
“If you accept this Agreement, you are subject to its terms and all other agreements that you have entered into in connection with Sony Online Services. You agree that you will not directly or indirectly use Sony Online Services (i) in any way for any commercial purpose, (ii) in any way that violates the law or the community code of conduct, or (iii) in any way that harms or has the potential to harm SCEA…”
^That’s the PSN license agreement & he did accept one so i would assume that he’s technically liable.

@25 It’s not because of “hackers like Geohot” that the feature was removed. Hotz hacking has always shut out things that might allow piracy. His iOS rooting being a perfect example.

@26 But he didn’t use Sony’s online services in that manner.

@23 Your arguments are still insistent that someone can make a statement on a certain date and that it can never be updated – irrespective of any future developments. Such as someone misusing your functionality in order to compromise your multi-million dollar investment and entire product revenue stream. That’s both unrealistic and inconsistent with counter argument where a user might agree to a term of use on a Monday and then break those terms on a Tuesday. You simply can’t realistically say that one party must never change when you’re giving free reign to the other party to do whatever they like. It’s just not a proper argument in the slightest.

@24 So when they reply will you accept that answer or argue it? If the latter does that mean you’re only asking a question in order to dispute it because you already know? If so – what constructive purpose does that serve?

Let’s be honest here, in all this discussion there’s many folk acting as internet lawyers. Internet law isn’t worth the paper it’s written on.

@27 Hotz knew full well that pandora’s box he was opening. Since *his* actions, the amount of growth in piracy on the platform has far outstripped the growth of homebrew. If his arguments were genuine, why didn’t he just re-instate the OtherOS functionality and leave it at that?

#25, well i do agree, but it is still their fault they should foresee it in the first place, therefore at launch, the ps3 shouldnt had included this option at all, and thas a shame on them, because their are the ones who maded and sold the device, this should be tested to death prior launch window, is and unforgivable thing for a big corporation like sony; This in the end made look sony bad, i mean in the eye of some consumers.

#28, they are pretty consistent on the part that saids “sony stated that Other S will be fully supported for the entiry lifecicle of the PS3″, and yes it can be updated – irrespective of any future developments, like you stated, but updated and improve for the best and to add and/or to make better some aspects, not to take away a feature that the consumers paid for that, and that was included on the device and the price of said device, a one that the consumers pay full price, and they were not compensated by this, it is pretty much and act of steal if you ask me , which is wrong.

I hope i explain myself correctly, because english is not my first language, and i see its hard to make myself understood.

@27 If the excerpt in #26 is accurate then you should note the word “indirectly” in it. In relation to that, consider the flood of hacking and cheating in online games that has followed since this all started.

@30 Sorry, I still don’t agree. You argument now comes across as “Yes, you can change things so long as I see a benefit but you’re not permitted to make a change to protect yourself it means that I don’t see a benefit”. Which still comes over as very one-sided.

Updated.

Blamming the hacking community for piracy is like blamming Ford or Ferrari when you choose to break the speed limit in their cars.

We as the consumer benifit from having our machines jail broken. We can choose what the device does. That can include fuctionality that greatly increases the machine, and unfortunatly that can also mean piracy.
But it isn’t untill you make that choice that you break the law. And that’s on you not the hacking comunity.

Sony would prefer to have total control and eliminate all posible uses they have not build themselfs but that doesn’t make them right or on the side of consumers.
The iPhone jailbreakign has already provided a legal precedent: jailbreaking for purposes other then piracy is fine.

@28 By your logic, the man who discovered the telephone is responsible for every harassment and stalking that has every occurred on the internet.

People are responsible only for themselves. It was the failoverflow group that were responsible for the hacks that allowed piracy. They are the ones who should be in court.

@33 “Blamming the hacking community for piracy is like blamming Ford or Ferrari when you choose to break the speed limit in their cars.”

Your driving conduct isn’t an agreement made with the manufacturer of the car you drive.

@34 That’s not what I said. But don’t let that stop you arguing with it.

And if people are responsible for themselves, then GeoHot needs to take responsibility for publishing information that was not his to publish. Especially if that information can be argued to be a protected business interest. So – we’re right back to square one.

And yet nobody seems willing to find out why he did not see fit to reinstate the functionality that, as he claims, was the primary motive for his actions. I guess talk is cheap, huh?

#31 Sony would be protected if they foresaw this situation before hand in the first place, therefore at launch, the ps3 shouldnt had included this option at all, their are the ones who made and sold the device, thats why is one sided, iam the consumer, i should be protected for things like this, because this device should be tested to death prior launch window, is and unforgivable thing for a big corporation like sony, so the easiest way for them was f*** the consumers, and protect ourselfs, thats pretty much one sided too, why on earth they included it?, why they didnt put much grey matter on this?, they are a big corporation which bast resources, they are not kids, they dont make toys they make electronic devices, that can affect some things and people, if they do not test this, then is not a safe product, therefore should not be sold, because the consumers have rights too, and if this its saw like one sided, well the position that sony took was one sided also.

Fail overflow did no such thing, neither did Hotz.
You can’t pirate games with just the root key. The key allows you to sign code. Wich means you have to program an aplication that allows you to run pirated games.
Such a piece of software was never made by them. It’s questionable if such an app even exists today at all considering the security flaw has since been closed.

@34 & 33, Well that’s why the PS3 is/was a closed system to prevent piracy, but by publishing the root key Hotz indirectly caused all of this damage to Sony in an incident that was easily avoidable.

Are people forgetting that he posted the freaking PS3 “master” key (or whatever it’s called) on his blog?! If he really was fighting for the “Other OS” thing then he would just put it back in (like someone else here already said, props to you man), but no, he didn’t. He just posted the master key up on the net so that anyyone could do anything to their PS3, yes, this includes PIRACY AND CHEATING. So don’t even say that he didn’t know what he was doing from the start OR that his intentions were good, because that’s just bullshit!

@37

Yeah, you can’t pirate games with the root key, BUT with it you can program apps to do so! So don’t go painting fail overflow or Hotz like saints!

@39, His intentions were to program software onto the PS3 that could have easily been done onto any modern/recent PC, all of this game console hacking BS seems like a pointless gesture to me unless the end result is piracy which is unethical.

#39, yes is true, and i agree but is also true that you can install back other S too, and thats the reason why many consumers will took his side, because like i said in this comment section and previous posts, sony took this application without any compesantion whatsoever, a one they say it will be fully supported in all its lifetime cycle, and that was included in the cost of the device without any further compensations to the consumers who paid full price, therefore of course one can do bad things with this piracy and the likes, and maybe that was his primary intention, though no one can know for sure only him and God, but that doesnt mean the people that was affected by the took of other S should not stand by his side on this., becuase what sony did to them was just also wrong.

I just read this funny ass comment on his blog (well, part of it):

“You have the brains of a genius but the class of a douche bag.”

LMAO!!! Funny as helllll!!!!

#42 calling me names doesnt make your argument….ah more valid..

@ 43, dude, that wasn’t for you, that was for Geohot. And I took that from his blog.

#44, ah sorry mate, my mistake, 8D

@44 no worries dude!

guy looks like a curly haired fuck

@47 lol

I say the guys fucked and guilty as hell.

Publishing the master key opens up the homebrew scene, wich is a good thing. Happend to the iPhone aswell, means you can now program what ever you want for the machine without having to go through Apple.
Same would be true of the PS3.
Who knows what interesting stuff would have made, like I’;ve posted in the past XMBC for modded Xboxes was exceptionally good.

A good move. Piracy happens in all media on all consoles, it’s a sperate issue that should not prevent people from jailbreaking their systems. And should not be used as a convenient scapegoat.