Class action: SCEA removed PS3 Other OS to save money

@50, It’s dualboot, honestly Linux did sway my decision when it came to getting a PS3 but I already have 2 full functioning computers so after failing to run it properly I gave up & happily agreed for Sony to remove it, but free online gaming, exclusives & it’s multimedia capabilities is what kept it around.

@49, Well apparently (& I don’t believe this) that’s one of the reasons why Sony removed it, did you read this article? It kind of mentions it. Something about IBM wanting Sony to remove it so IBM can continue shifting more expensive supercomputers.-I don’t believe this because no one mentions how this would affect Sony, unless (as I mentioned earlier) IBM made some sort of deal with Sony.

I would assume that after already manufacturing Other OS on the phat PS3s that it would cost nothing to maintain so the only logical reason for Sony to remove it would be for security, but I’m still waiting for Sony to give us a detailed reason.

@47
“That’s why I say the courts will decide.”
…
“My fear is that big money(Sony) often influence the courts outcome.”

So is the courts decision only going to be valid if it comes out the way you think it should?

My feeling is that EUA is a sneaky place to rely on legal removal of a feature, however I would also argue that if you bought a PS3 with this fairly non-standard console feature high on your list of reasons then you probably should have looked into what and how it would be supported in the future.

I always thought this inclusion was a bit like the PS2 programming you could do. Sony were trying to dodge an extra tax in the EU based around whether it could be classified as a computer or not. I think they were unsuccessful and hence one of the reasons for removal.

#48 “But say you’re an online gamer or want games that force you to have a newer update, you’re forced to choose & that’s unfair, but that’s only an insignificant minority”.

I agree, but i dont think they are a minority, nobody knows how many they are, but the fact is that if it is only one person affected, this person becomes a precedent that will rule all of us, even if we are not been affected at the moment, in the future yes we will.

And based on this maybe there were a minority, but i think right now they are not, because even non owners of a ps3 are angry with sony because of this so, the minority is not such minimal, but thas my humble opinion.

““That’s why I say the courts will decide.”
…
“My fear is that big money(Sony) often influence the courts outcome.”

So is the courts decision only going to be valid if it comes out the way you think it should?”

Well not really Doc, there are people that are far more informed about the ins and outs then any of us posting here. So I am hoping that the facts get presented fairly in a court of law.

As for Sonys big money, they will have the best lawyers(and other things). A court room often becomes a bit of a ballgame, and having the best players can win that thing, more so then the facts themself. Maybe I just watched too much Parry Mason lol. But in a legal battle having top tier lawyers can’t hurt.

I wasn’t suggesting that Sony would pay/buy out the Judge.

@54
Oh no I realise what you meant, it’s just you left a bit of a get-out clause in there. I would expect Sony to win and it may well be because they have the best lawyers than for any other reason.

“Kerplunk, imo your just about griefing.”

IMO I’m siding with the radical view that if one party has to take responsibility for what they’ve agreed to then the other side also has to take responsibility.

If you consider that griefing then you may be an oldergamer but you’re not a very maturegamer. But hey, just my two cents. No hard feelings. Live and let live. Just sayin’. IMHO. (etc etc etc).

“A move to retain control. And one that steps on people’s rights. ”

Stop signing your rights away then. Problem solved.

The developed world is ran by Legal systems NOT Justice systems, the legal way isn’t always the right way.

#54 i agree, iam always been afraid of laws of any kind, because most of the time the people who made them (and those who paid them in the end), create at the same time the tricks and loopholes in order to get away with his actions, in other words avoid the law as they see fit.sad but true.

P.D and is not the song from metallica

Understood Doc, ya know another thing just occured to me. There really are two courts here. The court of law, and the court of public opinion. Sony can easily afford to spend on lawyers and even ultimatly lose ground legaly.

But they can not afford to lose in the eye of the public. Prolly explains there intent on “ruining” GeoHotz. Trying to destroy his credibilty to the public. Esp important to pain him badly in the eyes of loyal Sony suporters.

And man does Hotz make doing that easy.

Just thinking Sony would love to keep the focus on “Hotz is a loser” rather then on things they remove from PS3 or if they have the legal rights to do so.

If this website is any indication, score one for Sony.

“IMO I’m siding with the radical view that if one party has to take responsibility for what they’ve agreed to then the other side also has to take responsibility”

Nagh your twisting. And enjoying it too I might add. We could sit here and go back and forth saying basicly the samethings over and over. But none of it matters. We won’t be the ones deciding anything.

Enjoy your black and white world.

I am gonna go play some actual games.

#59 older gamer i dont think is score one to sony, because if you see other sites you see plenty of people angry with sony by this, and they even not own a ps3, but they are full aware of the implications at stake, and i also believe that sony in the process of trying to make look bad GEO, they are making themselves look bad too. so i think is pretty equally even if this site show otherwise

Why won’t these fool just understand you gave up your right to use OS. You agreed to accept the firmware update and once you did that you signed a contract with SONY saying it was ok. Plain and simple as that. Why don’t the trolls who never turn their PS3′s on stop trying to look like they know anything about what they’re spewing out here.

A guy who never turns his PS3 on is defending a guy who has violated SONY’s EUA. I would love to go back in the years and pull quotes from the people who always said the PS3 having the other OS option was a gimmick and that it was never a good selling point because they have a real PC….For all the smart people here let the dumb (XBOTs) argue with themselves. They just hate SONY period and its nothing you can do to change that. Can’t teach an old dog new tricks

solve this parable, the ones who are are defending sony…aka sony slaves.

“you are in a restaurant and the company granted you free unlimited drinks. You ordered a pizza with 3 toppings. The company found out that the pizza would be too large to serve you and your guest on the table so they removed 1 topping leaving you with 2. You asked why did they do this? they said “we don’t want you to waste our pizza, our chef baked a large pizza for small guest”. And the company told you, if you really want your 3 topplings, your free unlimited drinks will cease. Forcing you to make a decision either pay for limited amounts of drinks and get the 3 toppling pizza you ordered for. OR get unlimited drinks the company guarantee you and get a reduced 2 toppping pizza”

That is the same scenario Sony are doing. And if you think it is not illegal to pull customer in that situation, then you are just a sony slave who loves paying Sony your monthly bill by buying their products and exclusive games.

@60 He’s not twisting anything O.G. I for one completely agree with hik.

You don’t stand up for what you believe to be your rights by signing a contract, just as you dont stand up against a company you support by buying their products and complaining about them later.

You show opposition to something by not supporting it. If you have an issue with Sony’s online practises, don’t use their service. If you don’t agree with paying for Xbox Live Gold, you don’t go out and buy 12 months of the service…

As long as you agree to a contract, you have very little room to argue your rights. Contracts exist for the sole reason of allowing exceptions to standard rules.

The changing of a feature set within a piece of software is entirely legal, and when you update the software, you accept a legally binding agreement wherin the changes that will take place are clearly stated to you.

THAT is the law.

What am I twisting? You comment about this being an issue about rights and I (and others that you don’t agree with) insist on reminding you about how you keep overlooking the bit where you voluntarily signed them away.

All I’m doing is reminding folk to be accountable for their own actions. And many, including you, act like it’s some evil conspiracy to take away your freedom.

#64 “You don’t stand up for what you believe to be your rights by signing a contract, just as you dont stand up against a company you support by buying their products and complaining about them later.

You show opposition to something by not supporting it. If you have an issue with Sony’s online practises, don’t use their service. If you don’t agree with paying for Xbox Live Gold, you don’t go out and buy 12 months of the service”…

With all due respect, what were the three primary reasons for get a playstation3, well one is obviously play games, second play online free PSN, and third running other S, well if i dont agree with sony and show my support to my believe, i will cease to use PSN, therefore reason two is out of the equation, then obviously i will not play any current games that ask for an upload, theres goes number one, and lastly the took it Other S, there went the last one. well not in that order but you got the idea.

Therefore why in the world i paid for a ps3?, as a brick for my future wall, man thats so wrong again, iam the consumer in the end i dont have any choice at all, sony disguise the PSN as a tool to govern everything related with the PS3, in order to proceed with the removal of other s, violating the orginal terms, my own console, that i did paid full price for it since launch day with all three said applications and primary reasons why is that so hard to understand.

P.D Is unaceptable by any views or the way you wanna see it, that the consumer in the end paid the consecuences for sony mistake in the first place. thas wrong from the consumer point of view and very easy to understand too.

You agreed to the legal contract provided to you when you updated. It was your choice. You choose to do it.

And I highly doubt Other OS was even remotely part of the vast majority of people’s primary reasons for buying a PS3.

@63, You’ve become irrelevant, you simply just don’t understand the topic at hand but you keep acting as if you do, these ‘Sony Slaves’ you keep mentioning are the guys smart enough to read a EULA before acting on it, no one here is praising Sony for removing the other OS without a detailed explanation.
Once you learn the difference between a product & a service, then feel free to debate with the grown ups.

@Kerplunk and Ireland
please stop talking shit!

http://blog.eu.playstation.com/2010/03/29/ps3-firmware-3-21-coming-april-1st/

if I don’t upgrade, how the hell would I upgrade my bluray to play new bluray titles?
how would I buy DLC and add-ons?

please stop talking shit as if we have a choice! We didn’t have any choice!

if we had a choice you think developers and third party would support the bullsh* Sony is doing? That would mean that their add ons and DLC will decline in sales.

#67, But it was not a choice, i was force, i deciede which one i prefer to loose, in order to save my console, not theirs, and is true PSN is sonys property, but in this case it was use to downgraded my console, afecting my investment and the money i paid for it, and like myself a bunch of others, thats not choice, sony forced me to do so , becuase i had not choice, the only choice is which application i rather loose over the other, but then again is forcing people , not given you the choice two very diferent words, that is hard to understand too.

I seriously don’t know 1 ps3 owner who got it for other OS… Not fucking one. It’s like buying a whole fitted kitchen, just for the taps o_O

I mean seriously, what’s the beef? Sony took other OS, boo fucking hoo. Sell your now “unusable” ps3 & move on. Sony will listen more to lost business, than to whiney bitches on the net.

@69, Do you really believe in what you’re saying? Decreased sales because of other OS removal… LOL

@71
ok…so you have met 47million ps3 owners right? and you know the reasons why they bought a ps3.

and I thought my brain was wack.

#71 if it was “so irrelevant”, why then sony put it on the first place,and strongly advertised, because it had high attached rates from them, at least thats what they thought.

@69 I guess it wasn’t a rhetorical question after all

If you want to use the product, you agree to the terms of usage. If you don’t agree, you don’t get the perks of usage. And if you don’t agree then don’t push the big button with the words “I AGREE” on it.

@70 You just presented a choice. Just because you don’t like the choice you’re offered doesn’t mean a choice never existed.

#75 when you choose you are given two equally ponderated options, in this case it was not, it was a downgraded, disguase as a choice, but were was the other good option? , the consumers didnt see it, neither a compensation.

@76 No you don’t. Your concept of what a choice is flawed. You’re still working on the logic that the only acceptable actions are ones where you benefit. That’s not how the world works.

Pay the morgtage or lose my home. Shit! I don’t like either choice. Better get a class action lawsuit sent the way of my mortgage lender huh?

I’m a Sony slave now?

Wait, wasn’t I an “Xbot” just last week? A few months ago, I was apparently a Wii fanboy. And late last year, I was supposedly a casual gamer!

Man, it’s so confusing trying to keep track of what I am!

@78

I have one question though, why all the ZX81 bias.

@75
you are just talking shit and not answering my question!
all you ever talk about are people pushing the agree button

@79 Pfft, ZX81 sucks! Amstrad CPC 464 all the way, man!

#77
No iam based on the fact that this is an electronic device, such devices always are bee updated to add or modify a feature, that translates into benefit for consumers, not as a downgraded, based on that premise the chooice given by sony has to be two equal benefits for the consumer, which was not the case in question.

Morgtage has nothing to do with this case,because you lease the house in order to get it, at least you own some quantity of money to some entity in order to get it for future paytmens, that means pay multiple ammounts of money that should be done in a estipulated period of time, once you paid all is then your property, but in this case i paid full price in the first day so it doenst apply.

@80 The user pushing that “I AGREE” button is pretty much the key issue here. That’s the bit where YOU made the choice. Where YOU acted. Where YOU are accountable for what YOU did. Where YOU gave CONSENT.

The fact that you and others are so desperate to overlook it is why you fail to appreciate what’s going on.

@78 I think piece of shit is generally what you are by most of our standards here @ VG247….just wanted to clarify that since you seemed confused what your destiny ultimately is….I would stay away from toilets if I were you. Your whole life could go down the drain in an instant

@73 firstly I don’t believe I said I knew 47 million people. Guess you skim read my post in the rush to say something pithy.
Secondly out of those 47 million people, how many ditched the ps3 after eeevvviiillll Sony took other OS away? I’m betting about 0.001% if that. Guess the rest stayed for the games & stuff huh?
@74 Erm because it was a markrting gimmick? If Sony could have got away with saying the ps3 was reverse engineered from area 51 tec, they would have.

Round and round we go.

What do you want me to say? Or anyone else for that matter. It has all been said, and said by people that don’t know the extent of the case or the facts there in. We don’t know the true intentions of putting other OS in there, or for taking it out. We don’t know a lot of things. We can speculate. We can sit here and throw around insults till the cows come home.

Nothing changes.

I would agrue that a buyer should be made aware of such a EUA BEFORE he/she makes a purchase. Your rights shouldn’t be burried in a massive wall of legal text, only even viewable after the box is open. It would be like telling someone of food ingrediants for possible alergies after they start chewing. And worse telling them in a language they don’t easily understand.

And them blaming them for it being their fault.

I would also agree that the overwhelming majority of PS3 owners don’t/won’t/wouldn’t use it for said other OS. To me that doesn’t mean a thing. There is still going to be a legal hair to be split here.

I think it just part of a larger scope and includes things like digital rights, ownership, jailbreaking, and more. Your sole and only arguement here is that its all stuffed in the EUA, and you agreed when you clicked.

Thats weak.

Because you completly overlook the placment of, tiny fonts of, wall of text of, difcult wording of, or even the flexiblity of(allowing sony to alter it) nature of the thing. You ignore the devient ways EUA are often used. You also overlook the fact that most people came to simply not read and ignore the EUA. Most importanly, as if to back up this paragraph…why people do not read it and why they do ignore it in the first place.

We do it all of the time. Most of us anyways. Do you sit the correct distance away from your TV while gaming? Do you take breaks every 20 mins? Didn’t you read the warnings?

It is one thing to take personal responsibilty for your actions. But I feel that this is something different. I know some of you don’t, I do. That is an opinion it can NOT be agrued. It is an opinion there is no right or wrong. Of course you can have your own.

Thus round and round.

I think we have become desensitized to warnings, labels, and yes EUAs. They are everywhere. Some practical and some not. Some we should head, some we don’t need to.

Smog is bad for your health, you shouldn’t live in a big industrial city. But your job is that city. Should you give up your job and move? Or should you lobby to do something about the smog?

Don’t like the EUA, don’t agree to it. Of course not agreeing means you can’t use your PS3(Other OS or not). You feel wronged but what do you do? Same as above make your voice heard and lobby.

Thats all people are doing.

Sony is absolutly not the only ones in the same boat. It is not legal to jailbreak certian things. Given time I see Consoles being added to that list. That boys and girls is the heart of this whole ball of wax.

Not some EUA. Not some punk kid name GeoHotz. Not me nor you.

What some folks are doing is smoke and mirrors, deverting the attention and focus to something else. That btw, is what I meant by twisting Kerplunk.

This isn’t a black and white issue like eating fench fries makes you fat and you can’t sue McDonalds because of it stuff.

Sometimes laws/rules get bent or even broken before they get changed. Jailbreaking phones comes to mind again.

On a personal pov note, I don’t think gaming has too many more console lifecycles left. I think future consoles will be built into TV, they will be on laptops/netbook/pcs, they will be apps on ipads/cell phones. Game consoles will, imo, die and evolve into game services, ones that stream games to a veriety of devices.

I think that issues like this one are going push that console evolution along a bit. If jailbreaking/moding/and hacking in general become expected and widespread what is a current console will be forced to evolve.

Someday interactive entertainment/gaming will replace(or simply merge with)Cable TV, and 99% of this goes away. Till then the war drums will keep sounding.

@84 So full of needless hate. *shakes head* So sad.

Nobody cares.

‘Hotz’ looks like his face has never felt a fist in his life.

A good beating is what is needed I reckon to straighten out his perspective on things.

*Nods sagely*

@87 And there you go again. Making every possible excuse why you should not be held accountable for your own actions.

I can’t read the agreement! It’s not my fault!
The agreement is too long! It’s not my fault!

Excuse after excuse after excuse.

Yet none of those excuses will ever cover how the user, of their own free will, gives consent to all of it.

You don’t agree to it? Fine. Then don’t agree to it. It’s no more complex than that! If those are the terms of use that you’re disagreeing with then, guess what, you don’t get to use the things those terms cover. You don’t get to have it all your own way like some 5 year old having a tantrum on their birthday.

You talk about twisting stuff? You’re Chubby Checker.

@89 I think you used the wrong number there mate.

@90. It’s not my fault. The text was too long and I had no choice. I’m going to start a class action lawsuit against VG247 and the internet.

RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGEE!!

“your chubby checker…” I think thats the nicest thing anyone has said about Michael on this site… period

I’m siding with OG on this I think. We’re all just pissing in the wind, without the facts & we’ll probably never know them. Tbh I’d be interested in peoples thoughts in what would happen if Sony lost the case? Other OS reinstalled? Refunds

@91 Hahahahaha!

@92 Funny.

That was completely unnecessary.

@OrbitMonkey

I would hedge my bets that Sony would reinstall Other OS option, if they should lose. But I don’t think they will lose tbh.

@85
from your comment, made me believe half of the posters here cannot be taken seriously!

you say I’m jumping numbers because I skim read your post.

“I seriously don’t know 1 ps3 owner who got it for other OS… Not fucking one. It’s like buying a whole fitted kitchen, just for the taps o_O”

so you don’t know anyone and because you don’t know anyone you believe that people don’t want the OS. Making me pull up the numbers that you must knew 47m people and they told you they were not interested in ther Other OS.

Hotz needs to start gathering all the bullsh* lies Sony had been spewing from end of March! He needs to present them to the court.

if sony said they removed the OtherOS to save money, therefore they f**ing lied to their customers saying it’s for security reasons!

we’ve all been blackmailed by sony