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Molyneux: “Gaming is being reborn on the PC”

Saturday, 20th March 2010 21:15 GMT By Stephany Nunneley

petermolyneux2

Peter Molyneux has told Switched that when he first started creating games for consoles, he compared it to being imprisoned in a box.

Speaking with the site at SXSW in Austin, Molyneux said that over time his view of consoles changed, and lately he’s noticed that games are being reborn on PC.

“It’s like I was born on PC. I felt it was this thing that was completely open ended, and that felt great,” he said. “When I skipped over to the console, it felt like being slightly imprisoned by this box. But know I have realized that it is set in stone – like, ‘this is the box, that’s it, you don’t get any more or any less’ – it was a nice experience.

“But now they keep on giving us this new hardware stuff. Natals, Moves, and input controllers – they kind of feel a bit more PC-ish.

“The surprising thing about the PC that’s just starting to happen now, is that gaming is being reborn on the PC. You’ve got Facebook, everybody’s talking about Facebook games and there’s this company called Zynga and they make games with 88 million people [Farmville].

“It feels like the whole thing with gaming is changing radically… and I don’t see why all those others like AAA blockbusters can’t incorporate that sort of level of interaction.”

Molyneux then goes on to chat a bit about the new touch mechanic in Fable III, how the decisions you make as the ruler of the country fall onto the populous, and how the future of gaming will change our idea of what a “game” encompasses

“I think in the next two to three years we are going to start seeing stuff, not just from Microsoft, but from everybody, that just changes our whole thought of what a game is and that is part of the problem, ” he said. “The problem is that the word ‘game’ just sounds so trivial compared to what we are trying to do.

“We are just now at the point to where were are smart enough to create a character that can meet you. Just imagine, a character on that screen who can meet you, engage with you, and see you, and has empathy with you.

“That changes everything because there is no narrative art or character development that is being defined in the movie industry – we will be something new and totally different. I truly believe that when we get these experiences, that when you feel noticed as a player, then we’ll get stuff that we’ve never even dreamed about.”

Heavy stuff there.

Fable III is slated for later in the year.

Breaking news

55 Comments

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  1. Peetry

    Seriously VG, every word out off Molyneux’s mouth is not news worthy. Its getting to the point that every day there a similar story … sorry I’m just frustrated

    #1 4 years ago
  2. Peetry

    ** soz double post **

    #2 4 years ago
  3. Gekidami

    I’d say its worth reporting, but “Hot”? Nah…
    The Hot tag gets used so often on this site it dosnt really have any meaning anymore.

    #3 4 years ago
  4. Michael O’Connor

    “Seriously VG, every word out off Molyneux’s mouth is not news worthy.”

    I disagree. This sort of industry evaluation is essential to the continued growth and prosperity of the industry, and like it or not, Molyneux is very much at the forefront of that advancement.

    I am very much looking forward to see what goes out of his studio in the next couple of years.

    #4 4 years ago
  5. Bulk Slash

    I don’t think this should have been posted either, but only because BDH will see this as an opportunity to post lots of random YouTube clips.

    #5 4 years ago
  6. Peetry

    Michael, I agree totally with your sentiment however IMO the coverage that he recieves here is perhaps excessive. For example in the last 10 days there have been 10 posts with his name in the title.
    Personally I’d like to hear more from other developers, however maybe they are not as keen to share. Regardless I love you VG247

    #6 4 years ago
  7. xino

    this guy is full of bullsh*!

    #7 4 years ago
  8. Sini

    This guy speaks too much for a guy that has yet to make a triple A game.

    #8 4 years ago
  9. itsucks

    Fanboys are too much buthurt, when their console has yet to make a Triple AAA exclusive game that sells more than a 3rd party casual game.

    lol

    #9 4 years ago
  10. Scyrenn

    “yet to make a triple A game.”

    lolwut?

    godawful noob

    i hope your mommy dies screaming in agony :)

    and the guy above you too

    #10 4 years ago
  11. Scyrenn

    “We are just now at the point to where were are smart enough to create a character that can meet you. Just imagine, a character on that screen who can meet you, engage with you, and see you, and has empathy with you.

    EPIC. :D

    #11 4 years ago
  12. Filofax

    @Michael O’Connor
    “Molyneux is very much at the forefront of that advancement”
    that may have been true in the early days, but not now.
    And as far as looking at the output from Lionhead Studios in the next few years, you can bet its going to start with the letter F and will shock gamers everywhere.

    #12 4 years ago
  13. 13years

    Loved the Games BullFrog stuido put out. Have not like a single one form Lionhead

    It would be something if he put the Word FUN in the scope of his next project.

    #13 4 years ago
  14. Michael O’Connor

    Oh look, the uneducated trolls have invaded.

    #14 4 years ago
  15. scuz

    switched is apt. for a guy i respect as a lead developer, he switches his views quite a lot.

    #15 4 years ago
  16. TheWulf

    He’s right, you know.

    Why am I a PC gamer over a console gamer? The answer is simple: If I buy a console game then I’m just buying a plastic disc that’ll give me some level of entertainment. If I’m buying a PC game then I’m often buying a game which will be greatly modifiable and extendible due to the open nature of the PC.

    Look at the differences between the PC and console versions of Fallout 3. The PC version is multitudes better, because of fan made content and fixes, and so much more. There’s even some quirky stuff out there. Also? Motorbikes. Yes, PC Fallout 3 has motorbikes.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKxmjOTaEO0

    PC gaming has always been like that and the mods are the same quality as DLC, sometimes even better. This is what a console gamer misses out on.

    Where am I going with this?

    Indie developers are doing their best to make PC games, a lot of modders are turning their mods into commercial efforts with extra content, but they want their standalones to be as modifiable as the games they modded were. Then you have stuff built from the ground up like Overgrowth and Natural Selection 2, both built around the ideals of community and open-ended games.

    In fact, if you preorder Overgrowth you can even become involved in the development. You gain access to alpha builds and you can freely talk with the developers, as they’re very open and very awesome.

    Not only that, but the IGF and the news in general shows a lot of innovation coming to the PC, because the PC is a very experimental platform. The consoles usually get the prettier versions of tried & tested methods of gameplay, not always but usually. Flower is one fine exception to the rule. But whereas an intriguing game with experimental gameplay, something that has the potential to be so new it’s exquisite, has the potential to show up on the consoles rarely we’re seeing stuff like that on the PC all the time, these days.

    And that’s what he’s talking about. The consoles are all about triple-A titles because that’s what sells to those audiences, but on the PC you have modding communities and indie development groups who aren’t afraid to try things which are perhaps a bit crazy.

    PC gaming is indeed being reborn again, we’re seeing less triple-A titles of interest, sure, but we’re also seeing more games which are truly PC games, and more games with experimental concepts. It’s like the early days of the home computer again, the Amiga especially, where people felt free to experiment because they didn’t need a multi-billion development fund, they didn’t need to make a triple-A game because those just didn’t exist at the time.

    I’ve watched PC gaming supposedly ‘die’ many times now, but every time that’s said it’s not actually the case. What’s happening is that those who aren’t regular PC gamers are thinking in a static way and looking for what the consoles do on the PC, or what the PC was doing years ago. But year by year the PC continues to evolve and become something greater for it.

    There are so many reasons to like PC gaming. And no, I’m not an elitist, because my PC is kind of outdated. Valve stopped updating the Source engine a bit ago and do you realise why? They get it. A great game isn’t about pushing polygons or just that extra shader, that’s a race they’re not interested in, they just make great games regardless of those concepts, and can anyone tell me that any Valve game hasn’t been a total hit? You can buy a fairly low to mid-range PC at the moment and enjoy almost everything the PC has to offer.

    Polygon-pushing and shaders aren’t going to make a great game, and let’s face it, they never did. Each generation brought new amounts of polygons but you have to look at games and wonder if they could’ve been done on the PS2 or the original XBox, and may of them could have been, many of them are just graphical updates of those games. And when anyone gets tired of the continued graphical updates of consoles… well, the PC is waiting, it’s flourishing, and it’s got a LOT of fascinating experimental gameplay ideas which you’ll be surprised by, in the best possible way.

    #16 4 years ago
  17. Aperson

    Great post TheWulf!

    #17 4 years ago
  18. Herlock

    “I think in the next two to three years we are going to start seeing stuff, not just from Microsoft…”

    Not from MS, that for sure, PC is dead for yu.

    “PC gaming is indeed being reborn again”
    …is never was dead at the first time and is never will.

    #18 4 years ago
  19. Grimrita

    @ 13
    The Movies was a good game. The only reason why PC gaming is seen as dead, is down to lazy developers and PR clowns who want an easy ride for their buck.

    Without PC development, they dont need to run compatibilty testing, offer any form of tech support and gives developers an excuse to churn out lots of tat.

    Until the big M actually releases a proper PC game, I will reverse judgment on his comments because if the next outing from his studio is a shoddy port, he can shove it up his rear!

    Hail the king! Long live PC Gaming!!

    #19 4 years ago
  20. Gekidami

    “You’ve got Facebook, everybody’s talking about Facebook games and there’s this company called Zynga and they make games with 88 million people [Farmville].”

    What a rebirth! Unfortunately i consider myself a hardcore gamer so i’d rather avoid this flow of stunning casual, skinner box games which makes the PC gaming scene these days.

    #20 4 years ago
  21. blackdreamhunk

    we just love microsoft and bill gates one of the must evil companies in the world

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tayLr4mQE7I&feature=sub

    gaming media like gamespot supports these kind of people and junk!

    Oh one more thing pc gaming was never dead in the first retard!!”Molyneux”

    http://adrianwerner.wordpress.com/games-of-2010/

    #21 4 years ago
  22. blackdreamhunk

    pc gaming is soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo dead right!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=seOJpCcY-4w

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYzYbWfXRew

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2B7OBJ-XQY

    what joker this guy is and the gaming industry is!!!

    pc gaming was never dead!!! goes to show how delusional the some game devs are in the industry

    #22 4 years ago
  23. itsucks

    shut up and sober a bit, blackdrunk.

    #23 4 years ago
  24. blackdreamhunk

    @itsucks
    how about no! if you don’t like what I have to say bring some facts to the table instead spewing air and garbage!

    your beloved “Molyneux” is a leir……spewing hot air! Just like the gaming Industry is full of them liers!

    oh wait he is right about one thing pc gaming does kick the snot out of consoles

    pc gaming hardware 101 for all noobs

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-j69RnEBAc
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GPI9xDmRjk
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Y2nJmKzOVY

    by the way the hardware is very old!

    #24 4 years ago
  25. Michael O’Connor

    Uuuuh… BDH… I’m pretty sure most people in this thread were agreeing that PC gaming *isn’t* dead…

    #25 4 years ago
  26. blackdreamhunk

    @Michael O’Connor

    So why did vg247 post a dumb game devs statments like Peter Molyneux as great news.

    You only need to read between the lines when says pc gaming reborn…….was pc gaming ever dead.

    the wores part the mass market eats up this kind of garbage!

    don’t talk garbage and you wouldn’t get garbage!

    #26 4 years ago
  27. El_MUERkO

    Molyneux has been talking shite for years, he had credibility once but he burned it by constantly waffling about how revolutionary his mediocre games were.

    #27 4 years ago
  28. Michael O’Connor

    Man… so many people out of touch with modern gaming…

    Sorry kids, but this stuff is the future, whether you like it or not. I’d suggest either accepting it or finding a new hobby.

    #28 4 years ago
  29. blackdreamhunk

    you have 11 000 consoles game devs out of a job and counting. a gaming media that is full of lies what next.

    #29 4 years ago
  30. Bringit

    PC gaming as a financial mediums is pretty much dead. That’s why so many developers and publishers now focus on consoles.

    PC is now the home of the casual and MMO arenas. Molyneux is saying here that PC is giving birth to the next generation of games. He is not saying PC games are dead.

    Believe it or not, Peter Molyneux is brilliant. He will say he isn’t, but he is. This is a man that revitalised the RPG genre with Fable, create many unique and very British titles during the ’90s and is now pioneering a new form of entertainment with Natal.

    He is head of Microsoft’s European games studios for crying out loud. That is why he is quoted so much.

    Great story VG247.

    #30 4 years ago
  31. Gekidami

    “Sorry kids, but this stuff is the future, whether you like it or not. I’d suggest either accepting it or finding a new hobby.”

    I’ll believe that when its the only type of games going. In the mean time i’ll be enjoying my hefty selection of core games offered on console, thank you very much.

    #31 4 years ago
  32. blackdreamhunk

    pc gamins soooo dead right that is why it made 13 billion right!

    how are them 11 000 bankuprt game devs doing these days?

    how is Midway,ubisoft,EA theses days so meny bankuprt companies and big bright red numbers…….they must love the high productions costs!

    http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2009/05/e3-predictions/

    if consoles are soooo popular can you tell me when and why there is no more sega consoles or how about this no now new xbox720 and ps4?

    what about a new wii?

    what a joke, don’t make me start to laugh!

    yea consoles sure has alot more games than pc what a real joke the gaming media and some game devs are

    http://adrianwerner.wordpress.com/previous-years/games-of-2009/

    I wonder what about 2010 for pc

    http://adrianwerner.wordpress.com/games-of-2010/

    wow game devs and the gaming media must be really out of touch

    #32 4 years ago
  33. Retroid

    I wish I could have what BDH is on. That’s some good shit right there.

    /Sips

    I heard 11 billion PC devs have switched to iPhone 99c game development.

    @_@

    #33 4 years ago
  34. blackdreamhunk

    iphone and pc gaming rocks but too bad cell phones are linked to brain cancer they are next best thing to the pc…….oh really last time i checked pc gaming is getting alot more games made for it than consoles.

    http://public-healthcare-issues.suite101.com/article.cfm/cell-phone-radiation-potentially-harm-teen-brain

    In fact them consoles are so great they put good income companies in the birght red or bankuprt…..just like
    playloic….

    http://www.edge-online.com/news/playlogic-reports-loss-of-33-million

    http://www.next-gen.biz/news/playlogic-reports-increased-losses

    #34 4 years ago
  35. Anders

    BDH never ceases to amaze me. Does anyone know what his profession is?

    #35 4 years ago
  36. DeSpiritusBellum

    @1 I don’t think it’s VG247′s job to be cutting edge journalists. They just pick up whatever they can find that people might want to read, which is pretty great. As long as the website is as simple as it is, you can easily pick and choose.

    And while I think Molyneux is very often a big bag of nonsense, and I haven’t been amazed at anything he did since the last Populous (with a nod to the first Fable) I actually like what he’s saying for once.

    I hope the future isn’t all browser MMO and other mundane timewasters, but I’ve considered myself a pc gamer since the 386, and that doesn’t really die just because new fancy consoles get thrown out there.

    #36 4 years ago
  37. Gekidami

    @35
    Hatter, specialized with tin foil.

    #37 4 years ago
  38. Bringit

    There are more PC games made, but mostly in European territories where it is the dominant platform. Very few big budget PC games are still produced

    Playlogic were shit. That’s why they collapsed.

    #38 4 years ago
  39. blackdreamhunk

    No it is fact the world does not play on consoles they play on the pc. In fact places like china consoles are baned. Also if a small company like playlogic can get destory by consoles how much more a big company like EA.

    I can name you a few publisher gone from gaminh because of consoles like interplay sebbia and midway.

    In fact pc gaming is so big and power that the media needs lie about pc gaming dying every year!

    http://news.bigdownload.com/2009/07/12/has-microsoft-killed-pc-gaming-in-retail-stores-one-site-says/

    http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/53403

    http://downloadablesuicide.com/2009/07/16/pc-gaming-its-problems-stem-from-mistreatment/

    #39 4 years ago
  40. Monk

    WoW , really wow at BDH, a lot of links to prove his point.
    Just WoW again :) .

    #40 4 years ago
  41. TheWulf

    @18

    I think you totally misunderstood the part you quoted, but I was mildly ambiguous with my phrasing so I’ll explain.

    Something doesn’t specifically need to be dead in order to be borne again, what I’m getting at is that if someone has a complete makeover, leaving their old self behind, then that can be considered a rebirth. It’s simply realising that the beast is evolving and one part of the gestalt is no longer required because new, better parts have slipped into its place and made it obsolete.

    So as one element of PC gaming becomes less of a draw for many a PC gamer — such as badly ported AAA titles — other things will slip in to provide competition and take up a slice of the market, and that’s inevitable because the PC is an open platform. If you can’t keep your lead then someone will take it away from you.

    An example of one way in which the PC has been reborn is, for example, modders and triple-A titles. Modders used to use triple-A titles as their base of modding, but now they have engines like the Unreal Development Kit, and Unity3D, both of which are fantastic, and Source is pretty accessible too. So what we’re seeing is that PC modders are creating their own games, and those games are modifiable.

    It’s funny to watch, really. The once heirs of the PC’s future have been overtaken, because they’re now considered unfit for the role, and others are stepping into that role, others who were talented PC gamers and modders, who’re now creating games which are perfectly targeted at the PC gaming demographic. That’s quite different to how things were five years ago, it’s a complete reimagining of how things can work. And that’s how the PC works, it evolves in this way.

    This is where the PC has reimagined itself. The consoles have taken up the AAA titles, but it’s not so easy for an indie to publish themselves on the consoles, there are checks and systems to go through, restrictions, regulations, and at the end of the day they still can’t charge exactly what they want for their game, they can’t make it as accessible as they want, they can’t make it modifiable, they can’t so easily include a community, they can’t bring in the community on alpha-level development, they can’t easily market the game as they want (as much or little as they want), and so on.

    Whereas the PC offers all of those things, and many developers take the PC up on that offer of total freedom. Look at Overgrowth, wherein if you preorder you can get alpha builds and actually talk with the developers, you can suggest things, help with bugs, and have complete access to the editing suite. In fact, people have already built entire cities and the like for Overgrowth and it’s not even out yet!

    Earlier on the iPhone was brought up, and many developers migrated to it. That’s old news. The news is that many developers are finding that the iPhone is suffocating, if you keep up with the news then you’ll already know that there are PC versions of a great number of successful iPhone games, either released or on the horizon. GalCon Fusion is a fine example of this, but there are others.

    Now to wrap all this up and explain the reason behind this extrapolation!

    Look at the PC five years ago, and look at consoles as they are now, then consider what the PC has become, and then tell me that many of the old elements of PC gaming have died, and that PC gaming in general hasn’t been borne again in a new image! Because it has, you know? The PC is no longer dominated by AAA titles, it’s an open market where anyone can put out a game with the chance of strong sales and a great community.

    To drop another title: Minecraft. Minecraft is something that just couldn’t have happened five years ago because the audience wasn’t open-minded enough to accept it. The market was dominated by AAA titles and there was the graphics arms race with graphics cards that we’re seeing with consoles now. But that’s all changed.

    The PC evolves, and sometimes it evolves so radically it’s a bloody revolution, and the old tenets of PC gaming can be considered dead. And frankly? Good riddance.

    #41 4 years ago
  42. TheWulf

    @38

    So a big budget is necessary for a good game? I strongly disagree with that. If a game has a big budget then there will be massive expectations surrounding it, expectations which are detrimental to the overall game. If it’s an original then it has to be graphically superior and more streamlined and easy to play than any of the games it’s competing with. If it’s a sequel then it’s especially damned because it has to compete with previous games in that franchise.

    Whereas with a small budget, something as amazingly innovative ad clever as Minecraft can be created, something which can, and does, take the concepts of gameplay forward in many ways. Minecraft has both a Creative mode and a Survival mode, the Creative mode allows one to build whatever they like in a Lego-like environment. The Survival mode is very much like Ultima Online but the friendly (even low-res) visuals make it feel much more approachable. It’s the evolution of the realistic MMORPG concept, and considering that the guy behind it was the lead coder of Wurm Online, that’s hardly surprising.

    What’s even better is that the Creative mode has about every configuration of singleplayer, coop, multiplayer, and massively multiplayer that you could imagine, and soon that’ll be true of the Survival mode, too.

    Given how incredibly clever and fresh Minecraft is, I’d take it over a BioShock 2 or a FarCry 2 any day of the week.

    #42 4 years ago
  43. TheWulf

    @20

    “What a rebirth! Unfortunately i consider myself a hardcore gamer so i’d rather avoid this flow of stunning casual, skinner box games which makes the PC gaming scene these days.”

    Natural Selection is a ‘casual, skinner box’ game?

    Lead & Gold is a ‘casual, skinner box’ game?

    Call of Pripyat is a ‘casual, skinner box’ game?

    Really? Gosh! You must be the super-hardcore! That or you’re quite witless, and therefore talking out of your arse. Please, please get your facts straight before you go spurting utter nonsense like this. All it shows is that you don’t have a clue.

    I like arguing with people who’re clued in and informed, this isn’t even a challenge. :/

    #43 4 years ago
  44. TheWulf

    *pants.*

    I think that’s enough misinformation fighting for one day.

    Oh, I meant Natural Selection 2 there, of course. I really don’t get where some of these cads are getting their myths about PC gaming from, I really don’t. *shakes head.*

    Regardless, that should have set a few things straight. But ultimately it all boils down to this: You don’t need a huge budget for a great game or a hardcore game, and hardcore games most certainly aren’t absent on the PC, in fact they tend to be moreso than than the consoles. I’d love to know of one console game that’s more hardcore than Pripyat.

    Hogwash, really is.

    I remember the headline saying that Metro 2033 was bringing new things to the 360, things that PC gamers are used to seeing as a commonality of late, simply because the kind of truly hardcore European games that PC gamers enjoy aren’t seen on the consoles.

    I imagine that Metro 2033 will probably be a little too hardcore for console gamers too, and it’ll see better sales on the PC. So I suspect that after dipping their toes in, they’ll realise this and keep their sequels to the PC.

    Console games these days are like candy, hardly hardcore. They’ve got pretty graphics, to be sure, very pretty graphics, and lots of shaders, but they’re also all ludicrously easy.

    #44 4 years ago
  45. Gekidami

    ^4 posts showing just how far PC gamers are up their own arses.

    @43
    Notice how i quoted something? The games which Molyneux was referring to as being ‘the rebirth of PC gaming’? You probably didnt with, well you know; You head you know where.
    Funnily enought, casual, skinner box games (do you even know what a skinner box is?) are the only games that really make money on PC these days. Think that one over why dont you.

    “I remember the headline saying that Metro 2033 was bringing new things to the 360, things that PC gamers are used to seeing as a commonality of late, simply because the kind of truly hardcore European games that PC gamers enjoy aren’t seen on the consoles.”

    Was it shoddy animation and terrible gameplay by any chance?

    “Console games these days are like candy, hardly hardcore. They’ve got pretty graphics, to be sure, very pretty graphics, and lots of shaders, but they’re also all ludicrously easy.”

    lol

    #45 4 years ago
  46. DaMan

    TheWulf iPhone/other smartphones might be suffocating in terms of game design, but other than that it’s the only option if you want to have fun developing games independently with a small number of people , like in the early-mid 90s.

    and it’s awesome.

    #46 4 years ago
  47. DaMan

    also yeah, console games aren’t easy :o

    #47 4 years ago
  48. Kalain

    @45

    Thats funny, I thought BCBF2 sold more on PC than the consoles? At least thats why the guys at my local Game and HMV store told me, since they had to order in extra copies of the PC version whilst they shifted a little over 70% of the console versions. Thats good amount of profit for a retail game on a PC. Just one example of a PC game making a healthy profit.

    As for the ‘Skinner games’, of which I@m not sure you know what it is actually derivitive from but I could be wrong, the consoles have just as many ‘Skinner games’ as the PC.

    Metro 2033 didn’t bring much into the gaming arena, if I’m to be honest, but at least they tried something unlike a lot of Devs nowadays. UNcharted 2 brought nothing to the table, neither did God of War3 or Halo 3.. and I’m sure Alan wake won’t either since its such a long way from what it’s meant to be, from what I’ve gathered anyway.

    I do agree with DaWulf on Console games being easy. I played MW2 recently on my sons’ XBox for something do, and I must admit, the Auto-Aim made it so much easier, as does the snap shooting when looking down the sight. That, to me, makes a game easy and almost worthless to play. No skill at all when you auto-focus on a target.

    There are some console games which bought some nice ideas, but, in general they haven’t. The innovation still sits on the PC, those small developers making games on the PC are the next future of gaming, in my opinion anyway. Those innovations will make it, in some form, to the consoles eventually.

    Also, define a ‘Casual game’? Don’t the consoles have Casual games that sell more than AAA titles as well? I don’t have any specifics, but didn’t the Xbox live game Castle Crashers sell exceptionally well and made the developers and M$ a nice profit? So, in that respect, we could say that casual games are helping to keep consoles afloat.

    #48 4 years ago
  49. DaMan

    ..lolwut. console games being easy or console fps games being dumbed down?

    also, Uc and GoW are some of the worst examples. this gen Crackdown was quite innovative, and it was a console game. as well as several other ones like Bayonetta, Mirror’s Edge, LBP and etc.

    #49 4 years ago
  50. Kalain

    Both. No skill in pressing a button to auto-zoom/lock onto a target. This, in turn, dumbs down the ability to aim, which is one of the points of an FPS game.

    I’ve not played Crackdown so I can’t comment on it and probably won’t since its a game my son won’t play.

    Also, you didn’t get what I was saying. Console games, in general, do not innovate as much PC games. Sure, in the past they did, I mean DMC 1 was completley different to any other game that came out and it was console only, but the succession of games that came after it, GoW series/Bayonetta etc, brought nothing to the gaming table.

    ME was the PC also, don’t forget that (something which a lot of console gamers seem to forget) and was originally shown at E3 on the PC, if I remember rightly. Yes, it brought free running as a game style and was, to some extents, innovative, but it had been done before. Prince of Persia springs to mind, although that was in alimited capacity.

    LBP brought nothing new to the gaming table either. Sure, it allowed you to create levels thanks to the toolkit, but thats something which has been happening on the PC for ages. And don’t go saying about how it was done, PC has had similar, if not better, more advanced tools, for a lot longer, Neverwinter nights being the most obvious one.

    PC is the hot-bed of innovation for games, especially amongst the indie crowds. Go look at Experimental Gameplay, some fantastic ideas there. I’m not saying there is no innovation on console games, there is from some of the smaller developers, but there is no where near as much as the PC. After all, all games start their life as prototype on a PC before going to their respective platforms.

    #50 4 years ago
  51. Gekidami

    “Thats funny, I thought BCBF2 sold more on PC than the consoles? At least thats why the guys at my local Game and HMV store told me, since they had to order in extra copies of the PC version whilst they shifted a little over 70% of the console versions.”

    Sales figures for each platform havnt been released, but according to EA whilst there are alot of people playing the PC version, theres still more people playing both console versions combined.

    “Thats good amount of profit for a retail game on a PC. Just one example of a PC game making a healthy profit.”

    It probably is “a healthy profit”, alot more then most PC games. But more profit from the PC version then the console versions though? Nope.

    “I do agree with DaWulf on Console games being easy. I played MW2 recently on my sons’ XBox for something do, and I must admit, the Auto-Aim made it so much easier, as does the snap shooting when looking down the sight. That, to me, makes a game easy and almost worthless to play. No skill at all when you auto-focus on a target.”

    Purely depends on the game obviously, just like on PC; some games are hard, others arent. To declare that a whole platforms line up is “easy” because its on that platform is totally retarded.

    “There are some console games which bought some nice ideas, but, in general they haven’t. The innovation still sits on the PC, those small developers making games on the PC are the next future of gaming, in my opinion anyway. Those innovations will make it, in some form, to the consoles eventually.”

    Oh dear, you need to review your video games history. More genres and innovations have came from console games. Look at the effect a little game called ‘Halo’ had on the whole FPS genre as reference.

    “Also, define a ‘Casual game’? Don’t the consoles have Casual games that sell more than AAA titles as well?”

    Maybe on Wii, not really on any other system.

    “But didn’t the Xbox live game Castle Crashers sell exceptionally well and made the developers and M$ a nice profit? So, in that respect, we could say that casual games are helping to keep consoles afloat.”

    So according to you, Castle Crashers (which isnt really much of a casual game in the end) is ‘keeping the 360 afloat’? Really? No. Its actually core games that keeps the PS3 and 360 afloat. Infact its not even casual game sales that keeps the Wii afloat, thats pretty much the consoles own sales.

    In contrast on PC, most of the growth in 09 was thanks to casual games (and that famous “$13.1 billion” also counted Facebook revenue and advertising. Also worth pointing out that in 09 console revenue was higher then 13 billion, you can thank Nintendo alone for most of that).

    #51 4 years ago
  52. DaMan

    yes I did misunderstand what you were saying, albeit putting GoW alongside LBP and Bayo is a bit embarassing.

    anyway Kalain, I don’t understand is there no skill involved in other genres besides fps?

    and “all games start their life as prototype on a PC before going to their respective platforms.”
    sorry, you’re being sarcastic here or something? yes, most of the console devs do it that way, it has everything to do with the dev process and nothing to do with innovation.

    #52 4 years ago
  53. Kalain

    Wow.. how to take my comments completely out of context.

    Why do you combine consoles together and the PC seperate? aren’t they all dfferent platforms? That skewers any result.

    BFBC2: I’m going on what the local stores by me have said. Not a good way, I know, but shows that some PC games do sell better than their console counterparts.

    As for profit, are you saying Consoles combined or each console seperately? This is the problem with people, you choose what you want to declare it as to show how good your point it.

    “Purely depends on the game obviously, just like on PC; some games are hard, other arent. To declare that a whole platforms line up is “easy” because its on that platform is totally retarded.”

    I never declared that all, go back and read again. Because of the controller new ‘Helpers’ we given to console games to make them playable, to a PC gamer they make the game easy. We never had Auto-Zoom/Target Lock before FPS’ went to consoles, now we do. There are some games on the consoles which are brutally hard, but some genres have become easier.

    “Oh dear, you need to review your video games history. More genres and innovations have came from console games. Look at the effect a little game called ‘Halo’ had on the whole FPS genre as reference.”

    Would that be Halo that was developed by Bungie as a PC game, then got turned into an XBox launch title as MS bought them up? OH yeah, that Halo. Halo bought a decent FPS to the consoles, thats it. It showed people that it can be done. PLus it bought regenerating health which is now a staple in FPS’s, sad really.

    Aside from Combat Action games, DMC/GoW etc etc, what else did console give us as a new Genre? RPGs? nope. Action Adventure? nope, FPS, nope, RTS, nope.

    I think you need to have a look at your own history on gaming as it appears to be just as incomplete as mine. :D

    We’ll probably never know the amount of casual games released on consoles since those numbers aren’t released, or if they are my google-fu isn’t working correctly.

    “So according to you, Castle Crashers (which isnt really much of a casual game in the end) is ‘keeping the 360 afloat’? Really? No. Its actually core games that keeps the PS3 and 360 afloat. Infact its not even casual game sales that keeps the Wii afloat, thats pretty much the consoles own sales.”

    And here’s me thinking that any cash coming in keeps something afloat? Anyway, I suggested that the console casual games market helps the consoles just as much as it helps the PC market.

    So, what is the console revenue of each individual console? Console isn’t a platform. This is what irks me the most about most modern games journalists and console gamers, you pan all consoles sales into one and go ‘Look, more than PC gaming’, but when you break it down on a platform by platform basis the PC is the clear leader.

    So, what is it to be? you going to plumb all the consoles into one or use each one as an individual platform for any argument on revenue? After all, any revenue from a game, no matter where it’s from, is good right?

    #53 4 years ago
  54. Kalain

    DaMan..

    There is, but people always go down the FPS is “Skillz” route, so I did for change. I wouldn’t dare say that no other genre needs any form of skill, because I know that to be untrue, but, as I said, the masses normally see FPS’s as skill only games, so I used that as an example.

    I was being sarcastic on that remarke, some people on here seem to think that you program on a console and a PC has nothing to do with it. :D

    #54 4 years ago
  55. Gekidami

    “Why do you combine consoles together and the PC seperate? aren’t they all dfferent platforms? That skewers any result.”

    Odd, you seemed perfectly happy in doing the same, from the start you and Wulf have clearly pinned this as “PC Vs. ConsoleS”.

    Examples:

    “Thats funny, I thought BCBF2 sold more on PC than the consoles?”

    “My local Game and HMV store told me, since they had to order in extra copies of the PC version whilst they shifted a little over 70% of the console versions.”

    “There are some console games which bought some nice ideas, but, in general they haven’t.”

    “Also, you didn’t get what I was saying. Console games, in general, do not innovate as much PC games.”

    Yeah. But whats really funny is that you seem to be considering everything the PC has done since its gained the ability to play games Vs. 7th generation consoles. In which case you should probably add PC install base into the mix. Now how many PC’s do you think can play, say BFBC2 are out there (on a side note, if a PC cant play it, is it counted as another platform?)? Probably a load, yet according to EA there are more PS3 and 360 players combined?

    Buy anyway. At the end of the day its the PC crowd thats pinned this solely as PC Vs. Consoles as a whole rather then considering the PC as a games platform amongst console platforms.

    #55 4 years ago