Sections

Sony PS division has lost $4.7 billion since launching PS3

Friday, 30th October 2009 11:39 GMT By Patrick Garratt

thisisliving

Sony’s Q2 financials today have taken total PlayStation division losses to $4.7 billion since PS3 launched in November 2006.

The facts:

  • FY 2007: -$1,970,923,859
  • FY 2008: -$1,079,994,103
  • FY 2009: -$577,207,240
  • FY 10Q1: -$413,541,667
  • FY 10Q2: -$653,333,333

Total loss: $4,695,000,202

All figures come from Sony’s investor relations page.

Note that both quarters so far this financial year include losses from Sony’s Vaio business. Figures for the full fiscal years are losses purely from gaming. Prior to Q1 this year, the division was called “Game”: it’s now known as the “Networked Products & Services” division.

It’s also worth noting the following. These are the losses Microsoft’s Xbox division suffered during the first Xbox’s release. As you can see, they’re not as heavy as those currently being incurred by Sony:

  • FY 2002: -$1,135,000,000
  • FY 2003: -$1,191,000,000
  • FY 2004: -$1,337,000,000
  • FY 2005: -$539,000,000

Total loss: $4,202,000,000

Thanks, Psychotext. You can read a full breakdown of where the platform holders stand financially in this NeoGAF post.

Latest

60 Comments

  1. Blerk

    Ouch! That’s gotta hurt.

    #1 5 years ago
  2. Psychotext

    Nintendo were asked to comment… but they couldn’t stop laughing long enough to say anything.

    #2 5 years ago
  3. Blerk

    Perhaps we’ll luck out and they’ll asphyxiate? :-D

    #3 5 years ago
  4. Psychotext

    That’s cold. :P

    #4 5 years ago
  5. Razor

    The merger into NPS makes everything look worse that it might have been had Game still been an individual business.

    You can clearly see that Game losses were halving each year until the merger.

    Still, it’s not great.

    #5 5 years ago
  6. Psychotext

    Worth mentioning that this quarter includes the launch of the Slim… that will have cost them a fair chunk.

    #6 5 years ago
  7. distraet

    If only I had a nickel for every… nickel Sony lost.

    #7 5 years ago
  8. Brol

    To compare Microsoft’s and Sony’s losses, you would need to take inflation into account. Then I think the numbers should be roughly equal.

    Anyway this just shows how unsustainable the console business has become… I’d be really surprised if Sony and MS get their next generation consoles out anytime soon.

    #8 5 years ago
  9. Hero of Canton

    This Is Worrying.

    #9 5 years ago
  10. Psychotext

    Here’s a thought… imagine those numbers without the PS2 propping up the division.

    #10 5 years ago
  11. Blerk

    Wait ’til BDH arrives!

    #11 5 years ago
  12. Razor

    “Anyway this just shows how unsustainable the console business has become… I’d be really surprised if Sony and MS get their next generation consoles out anytime soon.”

    Yep.

    And the days of expecting next generation hardware to be powerful all conquering machines are well and truly over.

    #12 5 years ago
  13. The Hindle

    The ps3 has now sold 27m worldwide its catching the 360 big time plus add ff 13, GT 5 and GOW 3 all massive games and i predict by next summer the PS3 will be in front.

    #13 5 years ago
  14. The Hindle

    I think feed is spamming this website

    #14 5 years ago
  15. Patrick Garratt

    I’ve just global-deleted him. He should vanish in a second.

    #15 5 years ago
  16. Quiiick

    Oh dear, now we have an ad-bot spamming the comments sections … :-(

    #16 5 years ago
  17. Quiiick

    Thanks, Pat!

    #17 5 years ago
  18. JonFE

    Thanks Pat – much appreciate it!

    #18 5 years ago
  19. Psychotext

    “I predict by next summer the PS3 will be in front”

    Sell 7m more than the 360… in 9 months? Given they both generally sell 10m to 13m in a year? Pachter would be proud. :D

    #19 5 years ago
  20. darthmahon

    That is a scary amount of money. I don’t get how much Sony earn elsewhere, that is not sustainable :/

    #20 5 years ago
  21. blackdreamhunk

    yea sony should just give me 4 billion I can use it wisely lol

    #21 5 years ago
  22. blackdreamhunk

    yea sony should just give me 4 billion I can use it wisely lol

    yea so much for your next generation of consoles ahahahaha

    what is sony going to tell their share holders.

    bankuprt console game devs and bankuprt hardware companies.

    any one else want to debate with me?

    my words are solid.

    #22 5 years ago
  23. Blerk

    4 billion, eh? That would probably keep you in hardware upgrades for about six months, BDH!

    #23 5 years ago
  24. ranksshabba

    $
    2001 -1,666,000,000
    2002 - 866,000,000
    2003 - 938,000,000
    2004 -1,011,000,000
    2005 - 464,000,000
    2006 -1,329,000,000
    2007 -2,066,000,000
    2008 + 267,000,000

    Total $8billion dollar loss.

    Don’t Microsoft’s losses in the segement that includes Xbox read something like this? (segement includes Xbox, PC gaming, Zune & etc)

    #24 5 years ago
  25. Komond_Deckard

    Correct me if I’m wrong, but:
    ———
    The facts:

    * FY 2007: -$1,970,923,859
    * FY 2008: -$1,079,994,103
    * FY 2009: -$577,207,240
    * FY 10Q1: -$413,541,667
    * FY 10Q2: -$653,333,333

    Total loss: $4,695,000,202
    ————-

    How can FY 10Q1 and FY 10Q2 be facts? That means 2010 Q1 and Q2 isn’t it? As we are not in 2010, that are estimations, not facts. So the total loss is 1,000,000,000 estimated, and 3,600,000,000 fact.

    #25 5 years ago
  26. BeastModeYMOB

    Who cares? The systems are selling! Gaming has lost its main point. GAMING! All u ppl that is arguing ove #’s need to get some pussy & chill.

    #26 5 years ago
  27. theevilaires

    what goes up must come down. Its the basic principle of karma. Sony did so well in the PS1 and PS2 era that they simply were poised to hit a bad time sooner or later. They’ll bounce back. 2010 is looking to be much more in their favor.

    #27 5 years ago
  28. Psychotext

    “How can FY 10Q1 and FY 10Q2 be facts? That means 2010 Q1 and Q2 isn’t it?”

    Financial year ending 2010. We just finished Q2.

    @ranksshabba: Not sure where you found those figures, but they’re not accurate… look here: http://www.microsoft.com/msft/reports/ar09/10k_fr_dis.html

    #28 5 years ago
  29. Patrick Garratt

    KD – These are results for Sony’s fiscal years, which end in March. Sony’s first quarter runs April-June, and Q2 – which was reported today – ends on September 30. We’re in Q3 now.

    #29 5 years ago
  30. G1GAHURTZ

    I blame Blu-Ray.

    Will HD-DVD get the last laugh after all…?

    #30 5 years ago
  31. Blerk

    No.

    #31 5 years ago
  32. Bojangles

    The dead don’t laugh.

    #32 5 years ago
  33. Psychotext

    They do make odd noises if you poke them though. True story.

    #33 5 years ago
  34. Syrok

    Is dogging not enough for you Psycho? Do you really have to engage in necrophila as well?

    #34 5 years ago
  35. Psychotext

    I put them in cars and watch them… uhh… decompose?

    #35 5 years ago
  36. David Macphail

    For all the idiots in the comments predicting the doom of Sony thanks to the PS3 maybe you should take ALL the facts into account:

    Sony owns exclusive rights to the HD movie market (Blu – Ray) worth over $10,000,000,000.

    Sony has vast amounts of income from PS2/PSP/PS3 software sales as well as making a profit on the sale of PSP and PS2 hardware.

    Sony also has vast amounts of income coming from their TV manufacturing side, standalone Blu – Ray player manufacfturing and a host of other consumer electronics.

    Sony also have a lot of money pouring in from their movie studios such as Columbia Pictures.

    Believe me, Sony can take the loss, if they couldn’t they would have cut the PS3 off like a diseased limb a long time ago, they’re not idiots (Like SEGA were).

    #36 5 years ago
  37. Blerk

    Vast amounts of income don’t mean squat if you’re still making a loss.

    #37 5 years ago
  38. G1GAHURTZ

    Nah, no-one is saying that Sony is doomed.

    The PlayStation brand is way too valuable to them for them to just give up on anyway.

    It’s like the Atari brand. Even after all the years and years of huge losses, it’s still going because it’s one of the most recognisable brands in the world.

    And also like Walkman. Even when the cassette player became obsolete, the brand is still going, even though it’s nowhere near as big as it was.

    I’m sure that Sony and the PlayStation brand will keep going for some time, but the market dominance is clearly totally gone now.

    #38 5 years ago
  39. Psychotext

    “Sony owns exclusive rights to the HD movie market (Blu – Ray) worth over $10,000,000,000.”

    Actually… no. Sony share the rights, and the licensing income for blu-ray with the twenty other companies on the board of the blu-ray disc association.

    Plus, the licensing income is no-where near as lucrative as you seem to be making it out to be. Based on current projections by the BDA you’re looking at about $100 million to $350m per year of licensing revenue over the next 5 years. That figure (dependant on them hitting their targets) then gets split as appropriate between the BDA.

    As for this: “Sony has vast amounts of income from PS2/PSP/PS3 software sales as well as making a profit on the sale of PSP and PS2 hardware.”

    The numbers you see above include all of that. As for the rest of the profits, Sony as a whole made a $227.8 million dollar loss in the last financial year. But it’s all aside from the point, because like GHz said, no-one was talking about Sony being doomed.

    #39 5 years ago
  40. Blerk

    Well, BDH was. But he doesn’t count.

    #40 5 years ago
  41. Psychotext

    My mind automatically filters everything bar the funny stuff about BDH now. ;)

    #41 5 years ago
  42. G1GAHURTZ

    any one else want to debate with me?

    my words are solid.

    LOL!!!!!!!!!

    I did miss this quote the first time around…

    #42 5 years ago
  43. Gregormeister

    1. I think Sony can look positively into the future. Losses due to the PlayStation hardware fall every month. Now, while the slim is out (and sells like glowing shit) the profit WILL come. And it will come soon.

    2. The PS3 is out for three years now and developers mentioned recently, that they didn’t touch the real potential of this black powerbox yet; the climax of PS3 games will come not before late 2010 or 2011. Even Naughty Dog said that are lot possibilities to optimise their U2-engine. (Golden times await us!)

    3. According to Sony the PS3 will get a life cycle about 10 years; so we not even saw one third of these time span! Look at the PS2 – it still generates money; an it started to do that really late – later perhapt than the PS3.

    4. In spring 2010 Sony releases their new motion control system that works similar to the Wii’s, and that should catch some Wii owners, too. Compare ANY Wii game to Uncharted 2 oder something else that releases these days – the graphics (and sounds) are poles apart from each other. Wii owners with a HDTV will have some reason to do the jump next year, especially if they realise the gap between the potential they have with their Wii and the potential the COULD have with a PS3.

    5. Yes, I’m a die-hard PS3 user and I’m VERY happy with it!

    Greetz from germany,
    Gregormeister

    #43 5 years ago
  44. G1GAHURTZ

    Hello Germany

    From London.

    #44 5 years ago
  45. Psychotext

    Just one little point re your post there Gregormeister. The gaming division was back to being profitable the year after the PS2 was released. Between 1998 and 2006 they only had one year of losses, the year the PS2 was launched.

    #45 5 years ago
  46. theevilaires

    wow a hardcore German PS3 lover…fucking cool. Hey maybe we can hang out when I come visit your country on vacation next year. :D add me on PSN the id is the same.

    Wir hoffen, Sie bald in meiner Kontaktliste sehen

    #46 5 years ago
  47. David Macphail

    OK, Sony don’t have the right of Blu – Ray all to themselves but they ARE the leaders of the pack. Blu – Ray was Sony’s invention, the rest of the companies just joined with them rather than risk competing against them.

    Blu – Ray is a Sony product, meaning, for all intents and purposes, they OWN it.

    #47 5 years ago
  48. The Hindle

    Hey Psyco i come to that fact because A FF13 is exclusive in japan so add like 1m to 2m in bundles and sales there. B. GT 5 is coming next March, again world wide system seller as every GT game has sold 10m to 15m plus a lot of consoles.

    C GOW 3 is next March, again worldwide system seller but will move more Ps3s in the Usa. Gran Turismo and Gow are Sonys equivlent to Halo and Gears as in the fact they will shift a lot of consoles.

    Id say they will be pretty much even by next summer anyway if not in front. Also the motion controller will bring a lot of the wii users to the Ps3 in my opinion anyway.

    #48 5 years ago
  49. Psychotext

    @David Macphail: If you go right back to the start, it was actually two companies. Sony and Pioneer. But they needed far more than just the two of them to develop it, and another 7 companies joined in the development.

    @The Hindle: We’ll have a look next summer. ;)

    You’re talking about the PS3 selling somewhere in the order of 2x what the 360 is going to over the same period though… which is just a little unrealistic.

    #49 5 years ago
  50. Talyis

    Don’t listen to Psychotext seriously check out all of his other posts he’s just a MS fanboy, I do agree Sony has lost a ton of money but 4 billion is a little much why would they keep the Playstation division going with that big of a loss! And hey Psychotext I noticed you mentioned of MS losses I’m sure they lost billion on the hardware failures alone but then again they did make some of that back when the gamers had to buy a second or third 360 I honestly think MS has still lost more money this generation!

    #50 5 years ago
  51. Psychotext

    A Microsoft fanboy who specifically mentions MS’s massive losses (and was tracking this data long before the Sony gaming group was in trouble). Impressive. I’m starting to realise that to be a Microsoft fanboy just involves not worshipping at the alter of Sony. Doesn’t really matter how critical you are of Microsoft too… that just gets glossed over.

    As for the gaming division not losing that much money. Why don’t you click that link in the story and take a look through the financial results over the last three and a half years (You can even completely leave off the results since they included the PC division to get a total of roughly $3.6bn losses). Because I take it you wont believe a MS fanboy, but I assume you’ll probably believe Sony themselves.

    But anyway, you point out what I’ve said that’s inaccurate and we can talk more. I assume that as a MS fanboy I must be spreading all sorts of lies here. For now though, this evil MS fanboy is off to play some Valkyria Chronicles.

    #51 5 years ago
  52. Armitage

    Have they checked down the back of the sofa?

    #52 5 years ago
  53. saladino

    ehi mr Garret, what about inflation in seven years?XD

    #53 5 years ago
  54. Psychotext

    That’s quite easy to calculate. Adjusted for inflation figures are…

    Sony
    FY 2007: -$2,103,101,897
    FY 2008: -$1,152,422,827
    FY 2009: -$577,207,240
    FY 10Q1: -$413,541,667
    FY 10Q2: -$653,333,333
    Total: -$4,899,606,964

    Microsoft
    FY 2002: -$1,379,514,758
    FY 2003: -$1,424,782,404
    FY 2004: -$1,563,480,809
    FY 2005: -$613,732,991
    Total: -$4,981,510,962

    So that’s -$4,899,606,964 over 42 months for Sony and -$4,981,510,962 over 48 months for Microsoft. Or -$116,657,309 per month for Sony vs -$103,781,478 for Microsoft.

    For comparison, Nintendo made $317,926,126 per month over the last 42 months (adjusted for inflation)… you can probably see why I said Nintendo are laughing their arses off. :D

    #54 5 years ago
  55. Syrok

    You do have too much time, Psycho. :D

    #55 5 years ago
  56. Psychotext

    /finance geek

    #56 5 years ago
  57. ranksshabba

    Whose inflation rate(s) have you used? Japan’s, USA’S, the UK or another weighted average?

    At what exchange rate, today’s spot-rate only (ignoring the varying valeus across the time span), or an average across the period or another method?

    Fisher might be useful to use here or possibly the Tornqvist index.

    Tell us pyschotext how you did it.

    #57 5 years ago
  58. Psychotext

    US retail price inflation (annual average) for each period as appropriate vs the 2009 baseline. Exchange rates for the actual original figures are done on a quarterly basis (on the day each quarterly reports is released) so as to ensure a more accurate conversion to dollars and avoid the fairly significant currency fluctuations which have occurred over the last few years.

    #58 5 years ago
  59. No_PUDding

    Psychotext is there.

    Michael Pachter should be ashamed.

    #59 5 years ago
  60. ranksshabba

    There is no such index as US retail price inflation (RPI)

    The do publish CPI – Consumer Price Index.

    But I guess that’s what you meant.

    Big losses anyway!

    Sony $4billion loss on ps3. Ouch.

    Microsoft $4billion loss on Xbox and $4billion loss on Xbox360.

    Nintendo printing money with their Wii and Wii Fit.

    Guess this means that us gamers will not be having a new generation of hardware from Microsoft and Sony any time soon!

    #60 5 years ago

Comments are now closed on this article.