Rage runs faster on 360 than PS3 [Update]

LOL:

“The PS3 lags a little bit behind in terms of getting the performance out of it,” John Carmack told Edge. “The rasteriser is just a little bit slower – no two ways about that.

John, 20fps vs 60fps is not a little slower, it’s flat out unacceptable. If that really is the best they can manage on PS3, then they should have confined their tech to 360 and PC.

Given that Crytek’s Cryengine runs identically across both platforms, I’d say this news has pretty much sunk any ambitions iD had for tech 5.

I do love the way it’s just casually mentioned by him though, as if it’s no big thing. I doubt very much I’ll be bothering with Rage now.

I’m guessing the 360 was the lead console on this and the ps3 version is effectively a sloppy port?

This thread will not go well. Jaffa cake, anyone?

That seems like a huge difference in performance. I’m surprised they even admitted to it.

“Given that Crytek’s Cryengine runs identically across both platforms, I’d say this news has pretty much sunk any ambitions iD had for tech 5.”

on what do you base that statement? games yet to be shown and developers will only talk good stuff about their engines wouldnt they, so props to carmack for keep on bashing the ps3 and 360 left and right or admitting that his own game is going to suck on consoles.

Strange news, they were claiming 60fps across all platforms and now 30fps for the PS3. It certainly didn’t sound like a sloppy port they hired one of Naughty Dogs lead engineers to do the PS3 engine for iD Tech 5 (he’s no longer with them – moved on). That 60fps claim may come back to bite them in the ass if someone digs it up.

JC did say this too
“The RSX is slower than what we have in the 360. The CPU is about the same, but the 360 makes it easier to split things off, and that’s what a lot of the work has been, splitting it all into jobs on the PS3,” he said.”

Not really a shock, [RSX] GeForce 7 GPU’s weren’t exactly the greatest against anything from ATI.

Hey Blerk
“This thread will not go well. Jaffa cake, anyone? ”

LOL, I think I’ll camp out here for a bit and watch teh carnage unfold.

@cachucha

The Cryengine stuff comes from developer quotes:

http://www.develop-online.net/news/32077/No-clear-difference-between-360-and-PS3-versions-of-Crysis-2-says-Crytek

Of course we’ll have to wait and see what real world examples throw up, but all the demos they’ve shown have displayed identically across both platforms.

Did Carmack ever make the same claim about 360 and PS3?

I’m sure they originally said the PS3 version of Tech 5 could ‘possibly give them a bit more’ or something along those lines.

In Crytek’s Edge interview the other month they said that there were performance differences between the PS3 and 360 versions of the engine but one platform was better at some things whereas another was better at some other things so in theory it should balance out. We all know what usually happens to theories, though – wait and see seems to be the best policy.

That is really unacceptable, they might as well not release it on the PS3 if thats the best they can do.

I’m sure that everybody knows by now that all they need to do is lower the resolution of the PS3 version to about 800×600 and make it a bit fuzy-blury.

Oooh, this wasnt really on my radar as I’ve never been a huge ID fan apart from original Doom/Doom2 but a 60fps framerate can make a huge difference to a game.

Now officially interested, as long as it isnt 60 silky smooth frames of baboon arse per second, and as long as the 60fps doesnt come at the expense of horrific tearing.

As for the PS3 comment, I’m very surprised. I’d be less shocked if they said it was a rock-solid 30fps compared to a slightly teary 60fps, but saying it’s 20-30fps.. well it just sounds like they did a poor job on the port.

Honestly, why bother with a ps3 version at all if you’re not willing or able to put the work in to produce an acceptable quality version?

Ps3 games tend to be a little bit more expensive too – this one better be budget price or all hell…

Game’s out in 2010. Plenty of time to engineer a solution – fingers crossed.

There is no ‘port’ as such – so far as I know.

id is designing Tech 5 to be multi-platform. However, of course, while Carmack is an amazing engine designer he is also hugely familiar with PC and similar architectures.

To me this sounds like an admission that the current status of Tech 5 is that it is running fine on PC and 360 but requires further work for PS3.

Carmack has always been open in his comments, and factual, so I don’t see any issue with the admission (although I bet the id marketing and PR guys wish he wasn’t so damn open technically).

Given the clear positioning id gave for Tech 5, clearly this isn’t good enough yet, and they’re going to have to put more effort into PS3 code and optimization to get it to where it needs to be.

I do think they should perhaps seek further input from Sony regarding PS3 architecture and techniques, if only to speed their familiarization with the platform.

As for comments on PS3 being better, I think Carmack noted that BR was more suited for their titles as the whole game would fit on 1 disk vs requiring multiple DVDs. I think he also stated that textures might as a result be a little superior on PS3 – but I’m sure it was only a ‘might’.

Pity that console fanboys with no technical knowledge are going to wrangle all over this when I think it’s a pretty clear statement and pretty understandable (if a little disappointing) if you know id background and history.

But with Unreal engine seeming to be fairly stable on PS3 now, and Crytek about to bring an engine to PS3/360 as well, id do need to solve the issues on PS3, get the code optimized specifically for its architecture, and get the frame rate where it should be if they don’t want to miss their own goals for the engine.

Didn’t he say something like teh Boo Rayz pwnz teh DVDz last week?

“I do think they should perhaps seek further input from Sony regarding PS3 architecture and techniques, if only to speed their familiarization with the platform.”

They did actually hire a top guy from Naughty Dog to get their engine up to speed, but as I understand it, he’s no longer with them.

The best theory I’ve read, is that tech 5 is heavily based around harnessing the power of the graphics card, which is where PS3 falls down some, and given the fundamental way tech 5 works, it’s arguable if they can use the extra grunt of Cell to do some of the lifting.

That’s fair enough of course, but if you’re going to build a multi platform engine for PC and current consoles, then this isn’t the way to do it. 360 owners get saddled with a multidisc game, and PS3 gets a compromised frame rate. To be honest, the whole tech seems a generation too early.

The whole project is obviously just a BDH-flavoured “consoles are teh suck, PC ROOOLZ!” exercise!

Updated.

If carmack says he can do it, I believe him. That man builds rockets in his spare time. He knows shit.

Like I said…

Lower the resolution

Make it blury.

Insta-60fps!

Quincunx for the loooooose.

Still, good to read that. Some horribly selective quoting from C&VG there though!

You’ve gotta wonder why devs use QAA, it’s terrible, I’d rather just have the jaggies, unless it’s a quick fix to hide scaling artefacts.

^^ Robo_1

That was a smart move, pity he left. Carmack is a coding genius in my book, but it doesn’t mean it won’t take time to understand PS3 enough to get the design right.

If I was id I’d find someone else who is deeply grounded in PS3 architecture or see if they can get some Sony assist – didn’t Epic get direct Sony assistance to get Unreal engine working properly (or at least much better than it had been) for Unreal Tournament 3 on PS3 and for PS3 in general?

In all fairness, there is two SKU’s using Direct X so I’d wager that they would be ahead as they are A) Familiar ground and B) The main sales focus. The game isn’t even a 2009 game, so it still has at least 6 months easy in the oven.

Basically, chill out fanboys, he’ll deliver it for you

Yeah, I’m inclined to believe they’ll sort this, even if they have to drop the visuals a bit. 60fps seems very important to id.

^^
Hunam

Am I correct in remembering that, ironically, Carmack used to state he preferred OpenGL to DirectX? Or am I remembering wrong.

Agree that is a factor in why you’d expect them to get the tech ready on PC/360 first.

Yeah, he was always an OpenGL evangelist.

Yeah, he is all about the OpenGL, but the PC and 360 are pretty heavily DX based these days.

I think Tech 4/5 are hybrid OpenGL/Direct X engines anyway, but my point being that with the core id crowd being PC based and the core shooter crowd in the US being Xbox based, those would have the most development so far. PS3 is OpenGL though isn’t it?

don’t start anything G1ga

The PS3 has always been very different from other platforms because Sony designed it that way in order to suck the developpers R&D budgets so that the PC and other consoles ports would be bad. Turned out it worked the other way around.

John, 20fps vs 60fps is not a little slower, it’s flat out unacceptable. If that really is the best they can manage on PS3, then they should have confined their tech to 360 and PC.
First, he said that it’s the current state of things and that they were going to get to 60fps. He already said to Game Informer a few weeks ago that the PS3 was a bit lagging behind and that they were going to get to 60fps

By the way, they should have confined their game to the PC as playing a FPS with a pad is like playing chess with your elbows while being drunk, but they must make money and right now, the people who buy games are the console players.

Actually, doesn’t OpenGL on PC pretty much go through DX API’s anyway?

Artheval_Pe said: By the way, they should have confined their game to the PC as playing a FPS with a pad is like playing chess with your elbows while being drunk, but they must make money and right now, the people who buy games are the console players.

lol how is that true? just because you suck doesn’t make console FPS bad.

Well said TEA!

[EDIT @29: Me? I ain't starting anything... honest!]

Certainly M+KB is better for shooters, but by sheer brute force the pad has become acceptable for shooters as designers have mostly figured out how to work the game properly for them.

I say mostly.

/glares at Killzone

You know I never seen so many PC fan boys til I came here.

@30

Did you not read the entire article Carmack says he will have it fixed. Make a comment like that and not read the entire thing for shame

most people only read the headline Phoenix

lol ok g1ga I also subscribed to you yesterday on youtube. I believe I’m your very first. Now what do i win

Given that Crytek’s Cryengine runs identically across both platforms, I’d say this news has pretty much sunk any ambitions iD had for tech 5.

Based on the actual video released at GDC, it clearly doesn’t.

Im pretty sure Crytek also said the PS3 is behind with them too.

Phoenix: We’re not all bad you know!

On the other hand, you PS3 fanboys are all ways making yourselves heard

(just a jibe, you seem like a decent fellow)

Not a fan boy I own all three systems I play games to just play games. All three systems have their pros and cons, I just don’t find a point in having a banner for a system.
All companies are just there to make profits as long as Developers continue to make great games they have my loyalty but as far as the platform companies I don’t swear loyalty to any of them, they all have been making horrible decisions one way or another….

I’m sorry Hunam but even before the PS3 was released 360 fanboys have done everything in their power to shoot down anything PS3 positive. That includes a lot of stuff. Out of all the fanboys the xbox ones are the worst. Have you been to a game stop where a xbox fanboy refused to sell PS3′s to customers because he didn’t want the PS3 catching up to the 360. I have and its just fucking not acceptable that people go to those measures. It’s a piece of plastic FFS.

Yeah, I saw that yesterday TEA.

Errr… you win… uhhh…

You win an honorary place in my 360 clan! Hehe!

“It’s a piece of plastic FFS”

There’s probably some irony in you posting that.

PS3 has chrome.

lol how is that true? just because you suck doesn’t make console FPS bad.
I’ve seen a lot of people play games on the consoles, I have been playing games on other people’s consoles. And clearly it’s not the same thing.

When you see a gameplay video of a FPS, you can tell immediatly if it’s being played on a console or on a PC because of the differences in the way someone play.

Consoles FPS are considerably slower than PC FPS because of the limitations of an analog stick as a targeting interface. Try playing Counter Strike, Quake III, Unreal Tournament or ArmA II with a controller and you’ll see what I mean.

Obviously, a lot of people are fine with that, but for anyone who knows well FPS, it’s obvious that the way FPS are played on the consoles is pretty poor. It’s the same thing as with strategy games, except for the fact that the console crowd being the biggest market, most people have become used to that.

You know I never seen so many PC fan boys til I came here.
If you understand french, just check this out : http://www.wefrag.com/forums/nofrag

“It’s a piece of plastic FFS.”

It’s not the plastic, silicon, steel cages or gold connectors I have a problem with. It’s being lied to, patronised, lied to, let down, lied to, patronised, and most of all, lied to, patronised and let down.

It’s like the decline of Metallica all over again. Equal measures of heartbreak and rage (no pun intended). Either way, they are both dead to me.

No I don’t speak french and I know where to go to see a group of fan boys I don’t need to do such thing its waste of time to see one sided views

I’d like to point out that one sided views are pretty much the norm these days. A lot of people who gave excellent marks to Halo 3 actually know very little about FPS as they didn’t play Wolfenstein 3D, Doom, Quake 3, System Shock, and pretty much all the games that founded then defined that genre. I’d like to see broader views on that matter, and unfortunatly, I can’t find them on most of the big websites.

I know almost nothing about J-RPGs, but I don’t come out to say that The Last Remnant is one of the best J-RPG of all time. Fighting games, racing games, sport games and J-RPGs work great on the consoles, but I’m sorry : Most console FPS are pretty poor, and there’s a good reason why nobody tried cross-platform FPS between consoles and PC, beyond the fact that it’s a technical nightmare.

On a similar note… JRPG reviews in the West are a complete and utter joke. Always have been, always will be.