Heavy Rain still needs loads of work, says Cage

so around april-may 2010 then.

That’s good then, because a lot of the facial animation in the E3 video’s looked abit.. wacky. Looking forward to this.

If you drew a graph of my interest levels in this game over time it would look something like this : /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/

I’d really like to get a go at the E3 demo.

THIS is awesome news. I only wish more developers took this approach. I’m REALLY looking forward to this intriguing game. Indigo Prophecy was very different and enjoyable.

I’m saving the lols for when it comes out and gets 6.5ed

yeah, that would be pretty LOL worth, anasui, but let’s hope that won’t happen, since this seems to be one of the most ambitious and original games on the horizon.

I note how the article title doesn’t quote Cage and therefore allows exaggeration at VG247′s discretion.

Really, you cowboys are a bit obvious. Try harder next time.

VG247: “Heavy Rain still needs loads of work”

Cage: “We’re still at the alpha stage and there’s a whole lot of work to be done”

Discuss.

Difference in tone. Plus we all know how VG247 love to put “quotes” in their titles. It’s notable when they suddenly decide not to. The omission of “alpha stage” in the headline is also misleading. We all know how far people read beyond the headline.

Just like certain ‘car bribe’ stories that resolutely fail to appear on the site are also noticeable by their absence.

Yet some other stories warrant multiple articles on the same subject. Even if they’re just puff-opinion-pieces.

Why deliberately misquote when you have a quote???

Their isn’t any point discussing it. We don’t run the site and those that do very rarely give a convincing response (the media seems willing to give themselves infinitely more slack than any of their targets). But, compared to other sites, the editorial control is very inconsistent.

I’m not sure what wider circumstances/hypothetical conspiracies you’re alluding to but as far as this headline goes, I don’t agree that Steph has exaggerated Cage’s remarks. The difference in tone between “loads of work” and “a whole lot of work” is negligible.

Well, that’s your opinion.

If I were interested in conveying information instead of opinion I’d be sure to keep things accurate instead of allowing interpretations to be presented as factual statements.

Again, why misquote when you have a quote?

Perhaps Steph was simply in a rush, and decided to shave a second off by skipping the inverted apostrophes. Perhaps, like me, she simply didn’t consider the difference between “loads” and “a whole lot” worth bothering her head about. All of these seem far more likely to me than your rather sinister interpretation of events.

If “loads” has connotations “a whole lot” does not, the article is right there with the quote itself and a link to the complete interview.

Perhaps. Perhaps. Perhaps.

I don’t see why excuses should be made for inaccurate work. And, ironically, one of the few instances where are copy+paste would have been the better option to go with.

If a game gets released with a huge bug on the title screen I doubt anyone would make excuses saying “Perhaps they just had to hit a deadline, you can still play the game fine”. There’d be rage all over the internet. So why accept poor standards elsewhere? Either in the article or in editorial control? And if there’s no difference in the wording then why introduce a different wording??

Why misquote when you have a quote?

I see you’ve edited your old posts.

I would guess “alpha stage” was omitted from the headline for brevity’s sake. That’s the point of a headline – a bite-sized introduction, not a comprehensive copy-paste of the article itself.

I edit my posts at the time of writing them. I don’t retro-actively go back and edit a post to add something in order to make a follow-up comment carry less weight.

That’d be like slyly fixing an article with simple errors littering it after someone has pointed those errors out so as to make it look like they’re pointing out non-existent errors.

Not that VG247 would ever be as puerile as that.

And I’ve seen lots of lengthy headlines on this site. So why sacrifice important accuracy for convenient brevity when it’s not consistent behaviour?

Why keep making excuses for sub-standard work?

“If a game gets released with a huge bug on the title screen I doubt anyone would make excuses saying “Perhaps they just had to hit a deadline, you can still play the game fine”.”

You’re comparing a product sold for £40/50 to a wodge of text freely available over the internet?

No, I’m comparing work intended for public consumption with work intended for public consumption.

The level of quality on something isn’t determined by the price someone labels it with.

Could you detail the thought processes of the people you think will be mislead by the article as it stands?

Freely available for public consumption and not freely available for public consumption are rather different ballgames, and I think you know this :p

Christ, does absolutely everything have to descend into super-anal nitpicking?

I think that logo’s a pixel out, btw. And the red is a little too red.

#18 Not really, no. I wouldn’t ever presume to suggest I know how anybody’s thought process works beyond my own. That’d be presumptuous in the extreme.

I just don’t have any regard for any misquoting and mistrust it in a site that has repeatedly used their headlines to distort information as they see fit. Fabricating game titles from thin air, exaggerating one side of a story over another or telling people what they should be thinking rather than allowing them to simply read the information and think for themselves.

Why misquote when you have a quote?

#20 No, it doesn’t. Sometimes people could allow someone to express an opinion without taking him to task over it and cross examining everything he says. But you know how people are Blerk, unwilling to let others freely express their views if it conflicts with their own.

Hey, I’m not a number! I’m a free man!

What’s wrong Jeff, your last game sell like shit again? =P

“Christ, does absolutely everything have to descend into super-anal nitpicking?”

This is Shatner. Of course it does. =P

Do you think Pat might actually ban him if people bitched enough?

“Why misquote when you have a quote?”

Perhaps to differentiate one headline from another when they are viewed together in a news aggregator?

I really don’t see the conspiracy here. “Loads” vs “A whole lot”? How does one imply something different from the other?

I don’t see any quote marks around ‘loads’ so as far as I’m concerned, there’s no reason to assume that’s a direct quote from Mr. Cage, if you want to be really pedantic.

More to the point though, if the editorial policy of the site is not to your liking Shatner why do you read it?

So it’s not on for me to “cross-examine” some questionable opinions, but somehow absolutely fine for you to call Steph a “cowboy” on the strength of those opinions? Much as it’s OK for you to declare “we all know how far people read beyond the headline”, but then refuse to go into specifics when I press you on this?

I’d like you to put together a list of these distortions, fabrications and dictatorial tactics on VG247′s part, if you have the time, and post it in the forum. I’m asking this because I’m interested in hearing you support a strongly-worded view, not because I want to exclude it from consideration.

PS. Popping out now but will be back later on.

Shatner trolling again?

Tut tut.

Ok someone needs to point out that the comments on this site, with respect to Shatner, are REEEEEEEEDICKULESS (spelled wrong intentionally). EVERY SINGLE ARTICLE i see you in turns into a nit picking argument about how somebody is wrong and you’re right. FOR THE LORD GODS SAKE MAN please disucss the topic of the aritcle or don’t bother contributing.

Respecfully.

Ban Shatner, and they’d pretty much disappear.

I.E. “Loads of work” vs “whole lot of work”…..discussion/argument? Are you kidding me Shatner?

I’m a commenter just like you DB. I’m not writing for the site. If I were I would concern myself with a standard level of professionalism. That’s the joy of the difference between being a consumer and the person that is responsible for the product.

Just like how gamers can bitch about games without ever having to appreciate how they’re made. One party is expected to be a professional, the other is free of any such expectations. That’s about standards, by the way, not about any fictional retail price you wish to apply to a fictional game when it suits you to introduce a disparity for the sake of it.

Furthermore, as a buffer to this, is a basic level of expectation of editorial control. From what I’ve seen, it’s very inconsistent – sometimes favouring accuracy, sometimes favouring exaggeration and distortion. And, sometimes, favouring omission.

If you want a list, go make one yourself. I comment on things when I see them. You should be aware of this as you’ve seen fit to challenge my opnions in other topics. I don’t go around harvesting information that only serves to act as a display of pettiness and infantile, reactionary behaviour.

And, of course it’s fine for me to declare whatever the hell I want DB, it’s my opinion. If you or anyone have a problem with that notion then it’s your problem, not mine.

If people might allow others to express an opinion once in a while then you’d be amazed at how different things might be. But, that’s not up to me. I’m not the one who consistently seeks to challenge every comment one person happens to make.

Statler and Waldorf were funny at least.

Dearest Shatner,
What I’m trying to say to you is GET A LIFE. Your 6+ paragraph rants are tiring and childish (as mature as you attempt to make them sound). I’ve gotta get back to work…no time for your silly lists…

Oh, and what are your thougts on Heavy Rain? Nobody knows cause your too busy critisizing the article’s formatting…

Dr G.

If I was allowed to express and opinion you’d have simply had two lines from me in #7 and that would be that.

If I answer people’s questions I’m “making a big deal out of it”. If I don’t I’m “cowardly and evasive”.

Whatever I choose to do, people are going to complain. That’s what they enjoy doing.

Shatty,

I enjoy reading, discussing, and hearing peoples comments on the articles subject matter. Including yours believe it or not.

Let me politely suggest that you try and focus on the subject matter at hand rather than falling into the typical forum cliche of insulting peoples inteligence (the classic “you don’t know what you’re talking about and I know more than you do”) and I think you’d get less “complaining” directed towards you.

Peace.

well I still like you shatner

I’m not here to fit my opinions into forms that other people find palatable. Nor do I acknowledge anyone’s right to tell me (politely or otherwise) how I should or shouldn’t express myself. The exceptions being the site administrators (who have made it very clear to me where the line is – in spite of others trying to suggest I should be removed so that they can feel happier). If others are incapable of tolerating a view that is expressed that conflicts with their own then they need to learn how to cope with it. If people were half as keen to moderate their own behaviour as they were to moderate mine we’d see far fewer disruptions.

Note that this recent example is all because my views aren’t allowed to go without multiple people leaping on them to dismiss, ridicule or challenge them.

Given the lack of consideration of so many others I don’t really feel compelled to dance to their tune or express my views in a format people feel more comfortable with. If they don’t like what is said they’re welcome to ignore it. If they wish to attack and fuel the situation then it is they, that are making a big deal out of it and fuelling the off-topic behaviour. Some folk even make a big deal of saying how much they will ignore something before doing exactly the opposite and prolonging the issue. Others are perfectly happy to boldy state their sole purpose is to be antagonistic and disruptive.

If they expect to bully someone into saying things they’d prefer to hear then they will get nothing but disappointment. Mob rule doesn’t work on me. Not that the mob has enough wits to have realised that yet.

“If you want a list, go make one yourself. I comment on things when I see them.”

If you are going to make sweeping statements on (rather than entirely ad hoc or local criticisms of) the way this site is run and the *moral character* of its writers, then you should be prepared to provide evidence to that effect. I promise you that I, at least, will not consider this “a display of pettiness and infantile, reactionary behaviour.”

I don’t visit this site too often and comment even less, but when I *have* seen you challenge what you consider irresponsible behaviour on the writer’s part I’ve found your arguments at most unconvincing and, in today’s case, pretty much intolerable. If you’re going to throw insults on shaky grounds, don’t be surprised if others pick you up on it.

“That’s about standards, by the way, not about any fictional retail price you wish to apply to a fictional game when it suits you to introduce a disparity for the sake of it.”

If I pay for something, I have more of a right to criticise it (by my standards at least) than if I receive it for free. That said, I accept that there is a basic level of editorial consistency a self-professed pro-news site such as this one is bound to maintain. So I’d reiterate – please provide examples of distortion, fabrication, omission and so forth. You mentioned a “car bribe” story, for instance?

In that case Shatner, why are you here? It’s certainly not to discuss the articles…..

Literally your PARAGRAPHS AND PARAGRAPHS AND PARAGRAPHS of postings/ramblings in this ONE SINGLE TOPIC ALONE as an example CLEARLY demonstrate this fact…no mention of Heavy Rain at all……what odd behavior…

The main consideration here is that the article title omits ‘alpha’, I think. To say a piece of software is in the alpha stage of development gives a very clear idea of how much work needs to be done (at least to clued in gamers). Whereas ‘a lot’ is very subjective, it can mean ‘loads’.

I think that if the article title had had alpha in it, there wouldn’t be a problem, really. It just makes it sound like Heavy Rain is further away from release than it actually is.

I don’t care so much anyway, as I haven’t been interested in Cage ever since he devolved from being avant-garde into a mouthpiece that talks the talk the masses want to hear. “I’m making adult games for adults now, smart adults. Hey you, yes you, hey! You’re a smart adult, BUY MY GAME!”

It really quite saddens me what’s happening to some of the developers out there, as even Tim Schafer’s gone from making clever, thinky games to rather dull-looking medieval action fests (with metal awkwardly tacked on).

The thing is, if a developer is really great at what they do, they don’t need a mouthpiece, because the fans will know about them anyway. All they need to do is talk to their fanbase, treat them as people, and respect those who buy their games by simply making the games they make best, regardless of whether it’s what the majority want or not.

Of course, this is why I know the names of everyone at Telltale, and I’ve bought all their games thus far … but I won’t be touching Heavy Rain with a very long pole.

I may have it in my heart to forgive Cage, but only if he forsakes the mainstream, sets aside this amenable mouthpiece bit, and creates genuinely interesting games again instead, even if they’re a bit too much for the lowest common denominator to comprehend.

In other words: Nomad Soul 2.

Nomad Soul 2 would heal wounds.

“I think that if the article title had had alpha in it, there wouldn’t be a problem, really. It just makes it sound like Heavy Rain is further away from release than it actually is.”

“Alpha” implies a good 6-12 months work at least to me, though I’ll admit I’m hazy on the definition (it seems to vary from dev to dev).

“I don’t care so much anyway, as I haven’t been interested in Cage ever since he devolved from being avant-garde into a mouthpiece that talks the talk the masses want to hear.”

I didn’t play Nomad Soul 2 and didn’t follow its development, but if the modern-day Cage is “mainstream” by comparison I shudder to think what levels of pretension he once aspired to…

What don’t you like about Heavy Rain, then?