Valve says PS3 is too complex for game development

Wednesday, 10 June 2009 19:43 GMT By Stephany Nunneley


Valve says that developing games for PS3 is too complex for the firm, and it wants to focus on experiences instead.

We have all heard this from the firm before, but a recent chat with designer Tom Leonard at E3 pretty much reiterated the fact.

“The PC and the 360 are just more straightforward,” he told Loot Ninja. “We can focus on what we want to do, which is make game experiences, instead of sweating bullets over obscure architectural decisions they make with their platform.

“I didn’t come into this business in the 90s because of some technical fetish. I came in because I wanted to give people experiences that made them have fun.”

There ya have it.

More through the link.


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  1. Suikoden Fan

    its too complex? or they are too lazy?

    #1 6 years ago
  2. lk

    in before shitstorm :/

    #2 6 years ago
  3. anasui

    deja vu

    #3 6 years ago
  4. JesteR

    Valve wheres Episode 3? Too complicated for you too?

    #4 6 years ago
  5. Gekidami

    Dev thats been using the same engine and assets for over 5 years cant handle an architecture that isnt close to the PC, surprise.

    #5 6 years ago
  6. Seraphemz

    Glad they don’t make games I care about.

    #6 6 years ago
  7. SniperWolf

    too lazy

    #7 6 years ago
  8. No_PUDding

    Yeah, if any other developer were as laxadasical when it comes to technology, they’d probably be creating superb experiences too.

    Steam is how old now?

    Although… I do agree with the experience>technology arhument. You’d have thought they’d invested completely into this generation, considering it’s goign to be a lot longer.

    #8 6 years ago
  9. _S_E_R_G_

    ha ha. funny coments.

    #9 6 years ago
  10. DeforMAKulizer

    Shame if Half-Life 2: Episode 3 doesn’t make its way around to PS3 with proper coding, and not porting…
    Guess we have to wait and see!

    #10 6 years ago
  11. Dr.Ghettoblaster

    If Naughty Dog, Konami, Ubisoft, Infinity Ward, Capcom, and so many other companies can do it, then Valve constantly bitching and whining about it being to complex only makes them look THAT MUCH MORE STUPID…idiots.

    #11 6 years ago
  12. Shatner

    Valve in “Get the PC/360 lot back on our side by making a cheap remark at the PS3″ stunt after the L4D2 petition ‘fiasco’.

    For a culture raised on pushing buttons, gamers can be astonishingly easy to manipulate.

    #12 6 years ago
  13. Michael O'Connor

    “its too complex?”

    All games… ALL games, are internally developed on a PC.

    The 360′s architecture is based on that of a PC. The PS3 isn’t. You figure it out.

    Sony have always made hardware that is notoriously tricky to work around, though to major limitations in some specifications, and it’s non PC friendly infrastructure.

    This has been a criticism of Sony’s hardware as far back as the PSone. Lord forbid all the PlayStation fanboys actually admit this *fact* to themselves.

    “Valve in “Get the PC/360 lot back on our side by making a cheap remark at the PS3″ stunt after the L4D2 petition ‘fiasco’.”

    It would be a “cheap remark” if it weren’t actually true. Valve has never had a division focused on PS3 development, so claiming that they’re only trying to “get the PC/360 lot back on their side” is a complete load of bollocks.

    For someone who prides themselves on their knowledge of the industry (and I’ll give you that much at least, you know your stuff), I would have figured you’d know common industry like that.

    #13 6 years ago
  14. Dr.Ghettoblaster

    @Michael O’ Connor…
    Again, If Naughty Dog, Konami, Ubisoft, Infinity Ward, Capcom, and SO MANY OTHER developers can program amazing games for PS3, then Valve constantly bitching and whining about it being too complex only makes them look THAT MUCH MORE STUPID…..idiots. Get it?

    #14 6 years ago
  15. Seraphemz

    Michael has too much

    #15 6 years ago
  16. Mike

    Valve’s end product is usually brilliant. Can’t wait for more Half Life, Portal and L4D, tbh.

    Just buy a 360 or get a PC if you want to play the games. As they’re all really worth playing.

    #16 6 years ago
  17. No_PUDding

    Michael O’Connor, people who don’t avoiding calling people fanboys, or talkign about them, are usually just about as bad as them.

    Don’t gte so high and mighty, becuase we’re all a little impartial. And as a Playstaion fanboy, I completely admit the PS3 and the PS2 before it was an odd device to develop for (or so I’ve read).

    #17 6 years ago
  18. No_PUDding

    I hope Episode 3 comes to PS3 via EA

    (I have a PC, but it’s sad if people who don’t and onyl have a PS3 are missing out.)

    #18 6 years ago
  19. Shatner

    I love it when O’Connor talks as if he has the first clue about grass roots game development. It’s great how he asserts his point by implying that anyone who might refute his authority on the matter is automatically a PlayStation fanboy. :D

    The 360 collective always enjoy theses sorts of comments from Valve and always like to ignore Newell’s “360 makes my life harder” comment from some years back. Still, if you try hard enough you can keep on ignoring all statements that don’t support your predetermined view and carry on beating the “if you don’t agree with me you’re a fanboy” drum. Right? Carefully ignoring criticism of one platform whilst supporting criticism of the other – that’s not fanboyish at all. Right? :D

    All we need now is for some bright spark to chip in and tell us all how taking a PC game and porting it onto the 360 is ‘trivial’ and we’ll truly have the blind leading the blind.

    #19 6 years ago
  20. No_PUDding

    Putting a PC game on a 360 game is trivial!

    #20 6 years ago
  21. Hunam

    Have Valve even offended the 360 guys? It’s only the PC gamers that are pissed at them isn’t it?

    #21 6 years ago
  22. No_PUDding

    That’s true.

    If they are trying to move attention away, they’re doign it wrong. PC gamers are in a little world of their own.

    #22 6 years ago
  23. Dr.Ghettoblaster

    I love all of Valve’s products, but the fact is they’ve really only done a handfull of game series. Half Life, Counter Strike, Day of Defeat, Team Fortress, Left 4 Dead, and Portal. All GREAT games, but who are they too bitch about Sony’s PS3 when they’re not even really doing THAT MUCH development work OUTSIDE of PS3….LMAO?!? HOW LONG has HL2:E3 been in development for now……

    Oh and I’m no “fanboy”. I own a PC, PS3, and X360. I favor triple A quality titles on any platform.

    #23 6 years ago
  24. Shatner

    Now now, Dr.Ghetto. When a PC/360 game takes a long time to produce it’s because it’s all about not making compromises and getting the quality right (according to folks like Remedy).

    When a PS3 game takes its time coming out it’s because it was always going to be a shit game anyway, they just couldn’t make the console work.

    This is usually declared by people that either haven’t played the product in question or haven’t the first genuine clue about day-to-day game development. Or, quite frequently, both.

    (Disagree with me and you’re just a dirty fanboy, y’hear!)

    #24 6 years ago
  25. No_PUDding

    And funnily enough, only two of them are actually developed from the ground up by Valve.

    The rest are mod communities that were taken under Valves wing. Admittedly badass in itself, especially if a mod is far along enoguh to impress you, then you just start fundign them, and make it their job, and suddenly theres another game with the VALVE name on it.

    #25 6 years ago
  26. No_PUDding

    Shatner, I rememeber discussing Team ICo here, and beign told they probably had problems with the PS3.

    And, wait till you see the tech they’ve created for it. They had no problems with it, but they DID, need to take their time.

    #26 6 years ago
  27. MushroomStamp

    This is nothing new.. EVERY developer sans a few have been complaining about the PS3 needless complexity of development. If only Sony would listen to the developers the way Microsoft does.

    #27 6 years ago
  28. Dr.Ghettoblaster

    “When a PS3 game takes its time coming out it’s because it was always going to be a shit game anyway”

    Who you callin’ a fanboy sir?

    #28 6 years ago
  29. No_PUDding


    I can’t tell.

    #29 6 years ago
  30. Shatner

    See, this is where you’re all demonstrating your cluelessness.

    NO PLATFORM is straightforward to develop on. And it’s never a “trivial” task. If any of you so cocksure development experts could even program Battleships in Actionscript you’d have an inkling of that. So the suggestion that one is simple and another is difficult by people that, I wouldn’t trust to plug in a development kit correctly is patently absurd! :D

    Listening to someone that can’t even install a greasemonkey script into Firefox without asking for help preach about the complexities of hardware architecture is really quite hilarious.

    In just the same way that none of you know whether Valve has spent much time developing for PS3 or not. Just because you’ve not seen a finished product from them on the platform doesn’t mean they’ve never touched it. You’ve just never been told anything specific – so you’ll just run off with your assumptions and make judgement calls. After all, if you weren’t told about it then it obviously never happened. Right? :D

    The staggering lack of thought and dependency on superficial remarks taken at face value as ‘experts’ go about telling each other how development does or doesn’t work is hilariously tragic. Just like how you regard a development time of a game since when YOU heard about it first. Odds are you can add two years to that gestation period for any game – if not longer.

    There’s an awful lot of empty posturing going on as you all try to convince each other you’re experts.

    It’s very funny. Please continue. :D

    #30 6 years ago
  31. Michael O'Connor

    “I love it when O’Connor talks as if he has the first clue about grass roots game development.”

    More than you do, apparently. *yawn*

    “@Michael O’ Connor…
    Again, If Naughty Dog, Konami, Ubisoft, Infinity Ward, Capcom, and SO MANY OTHER developers can program amazing games for PS3, then Valve constantly bitching and whining about it being too complex only makes them look THAT MUCH MORE STUPID…..idiots. Get it?”

    The very same thing was pointed out regarding the Dreamcast hardware, which was also heavily based on PC architecture.

    If a console is popular enough, a developer is always going to work around the machine’s problems or complexity to release a game on it. That doesn’t change the fact that the PS3 is an infinitely more complex machine to development than a console that is little more than a PC in a box.

    #31 6 years ago
  32. Dr.Ghettoblaster

    All I’m saying is when people take the time to get it right (ie. MGS4, Uncharted series, etc), the PS3 can produce quality above and beyond that seen on other current platforms. Maybe the complex machine has something to do with this.

    #32 6 years ago
  33. Michael O'Connor

    “All I’m saying is when people take the time to get it right (ie. MGS4, Uncharted series, etc), the PS3 can produce quality above and beyond that seen on other current platforms.”

    This is true, and I never disagreed with that fact. But Valve has chosen not to concentrate on the PS3 for a very specific reason – the PS3′s complexity in porting PC titles – and this is not the first time they have pointed it out.

    Lets not forget that Valve is a PC developer first, and their games have always had a very PC focus to them. The 360 is just convenient due to the simplicity with which they can port their games to it. The PS3 doesn’t have that friendliness for PC ports.

    #33 6 years ago
  34. Dr.Ghettoblaster

    thats great Michael. And i never disagreed with the fact that PS3 is more difficult than PC or X360 to develop. MY POINT was simply this…….if other companies can do it….then Valve can to….if they wanted to…simple as that.

    But they don’t. Big deal. Who gives a fuck? Maybe it’s laziness, maybe they just don’t care for Sony. Maybe they’re idiots. Maybe they’re smart for avoiding Sony. All i know is Naughty Dog and the Uncharted series is some of the best videogaming I have ever experienced IN MY LIFE on ANY platform, and they did it on the “infinitely complex” PS3.

    It’s not like they’re producing tons of great games. Give me the Half-Life and Portal series and I’m a happy man.

    Watch, you’ll probably ARGUE something I just said…

    #34 6 years ago
  35. Shatner

    O’connor, you can’t even identify forum software without bleating for help. You’ve demonstrated just how amazingly out of touch with your subject matter you are – in spite of you assumed tone of authority on it. And the best you can retort with is a more pretentious version of “no u!”.

    Good comeback. Such a well constructed and considered response!

    Why don’t you flounce about for a bit and make a big deal about how you’re going to ignore someone now. And then continue to reply to them, showing just how empty your big, bold gestures are!



    “That doesn’t change the fact that the PS3 is an infinitely more complex machine to development than a console that is little more than a PC in a box.”

    Oh, that’s a beauty.

    A guy who can’t program anything. Who has never programmed any platform he is an lecturing as an ‘expert’ on is now stating something is INFINITELY more complex than something else?

    Michael, go speak to a genuine software developer (instead of pretending to be one). See if they make comparisons to things and use the term “inifinitely” in doing so. And see if they’ll state is as “fact” like you just did.

    You may be surprised at the response you get. :D

    #35 6 years ago
  36. Seraphemz

    So you are saying that the 360 is simple….. Yeah, I agree.

    #36 6 years ago
  37. No_PUDding

    Anyone who was disagreeing with you about a fact is stupid.

    But you qualified your answer by dismissing anyone who disagreed, and labelling them a fanboy.

    #37 6 years ago
  38. Hunam

    To be fair, that have been a fair amount of developers criticise Sony’s decision with the PS3 architecture since even before the console was released. Which to me, would indicate that it’s harder to develop for.

    #38 6 years ago
  39. Shatner

    Infinitely harder?

    Surely, if such a comparison holds ANY weight then the reverse must also be true. That the other platform must be INFINITELY easier.

    So I guess all you need to do is imagine it, and POP!, there it is. Your fully finished game, made with INFINITE ease and simplicity! Do you think Molyneaux in his new role knows these important facts that O’Connor is lecturing us on? Seems like it’ll be a cushy number fo him if O’Connor is right!

    Thanks O’Connor, you’ve just destroyed any shred of credibility on this subject you might have had. “Infinitely” – hahahaha. :D

    #39 6 years ago
  40. Hunam

    Not infinitely harder, but around 1.98 billion times harder.

    #40 6 years ago
  41. Shatner

    But O’Connor said “infinitely”. If you’re rufuting his gospel then it can only mean one thing…


    #41 6 years ago
  42. Dr.Ghettoblaster


    #42 6 years ago
  43. Gekidami

    Theres no question that the PS3 is harder to develop for but as always Valve is blowing it out of proportion instead of just getting over it like every other dev and if they dont want to do that just shut up.
    Every time someone from Valve opens their mouth about the PS3 they just make themselves look like incompetent idiots with a unexplainable grudge.

    #43 6 years ago
  44. Dr.Ghettoblaster

    Dude, GEKIDAMI, you wrapped up this entire article (surprisingly turned argument) P E R F E C T L Y !!!!

    #44 6 years ago
  45. Hunam

    Valve made themselves look like incompetent idiots long before the PS3 and Xbox 360 even existed.

    #45 6 years ago
  46. Shatner

    You guys DO know that Gabe Newell and various Valve cohorts are ex Microsoft employees, right?

    As Peter Moore with his pro-Natal comments showed last week. You can take the man out of Microsoft, but you can’t take the Microsoft out of the man.


    #46 6 years ago
  47. Hunam

    Aren’t Microsoft frequently voted one of the best employers around? I guess that could have something to do with it :P

    #47 6 years ago
  48. Dr.Ghettoblaster

    LMAO…..why do we waste our time posting on these things…….who really reads them and in the grand scheme of things who really cares…lol

    #48 6 years ago
  49. Gekidami

    I didnt know that Shatner, though it dosnt really surprise me; Some of Gabe *Boomer* Newell’s past quotes have left the realms of development and went straight into fanboy name calling.

    #49 6 years ago
  50. Hunam

    Does it matter really? Were just trying to entertain ourselves.

    #50 6 years ago
  51. Mike

    “The staggering lack of thought and dependency on superficial remarks taken at face value as ‘experts’ go about telling each other how development does or doesn’t work is hilariously tragic.”

    I smell irony.

    #51 6 years ago
  52. Shatner

    @47 Are they?

    #52 6 years ago
  53. Dannybuoy

    Tell that to Naughty Dog!!

    #53 6 years ago
  54. Shatner

    Oh Mike. I love it when you stroll into a topic and think that vacuously challenging what someone else has said is the same as making a counterpoint. That you ALWAYS do it to the same person.. ..well, that just goes back to what I said to you about your fondness for discrimination doesn’t it? Don’t worry, I’m sure you ignored all that and will just do your highly effective internet shrug.

    Remember Mike, your actions speak for more loudly then your, mostly empty, words.

    Still. Go check out some of O’Connor’s INFINITE FACTS. I think you’ll see they substantiate my views more than adequately.

    (Or you can just ignore all the stuff that supports my views and giggle around pretending that I’m making it all up – your selective reasoning is always fun to watch!).

    Off you scamper. There’s a good boy!

    Or, tell you what, why don’t you give us some of YOUR insights into day-to-day software development Mike? You’re obviously far more experienced that those you dscriminately seek to dismiss. Why don’t you enlighten us all with your bountiful expertise instead of empty statements that amount to nothing other than a childish effort to look big on the internet. Let’s hear it Mikey boy? Come on old bean.

    Sheesh, I bet you wouldn’t even be able to quote me the most recent XDK release without getting help from some 360 crony!

    Come on big guy. Let’s see you say something with a bit of substance instead of your blatant empty posturing!

    #54 6 years ago
  55. Dr.Ghettoblaster

    55 comments and climbing…………i love it.

    #55 6 years ago
  56. Psychotext

    Hahaha… I only had to look at the title to know this thread would be golden.

    #56 6 years ago
  57. Hunam

    @52: One incident among dozens of Best Employer awards still equals a great employer. Everyone I have met who is not on an agency contract with them loves them dearly.

    #57 6 years ago
  58. Shatner

    Well Psycho, it seems a lot of people are intent of filling the topic out with empty posturing or mocking from the sidelines (sound familiar?). Not that you ever check your own behaviour when you’re so busy judging others huh?

    Still, I’m bookmarking this thread for INFINITE lols coming from O’Connor’s ‘facts’ about game development.

    Any of you experts want to quote me the most recent XDKs and firmware releases to show me just how awesomely in touch with your subject you are, I’m all ears.

    Man up, boys and girls. No cheating now!

    #58 6 years ago
  59. Shatner

    @57 – So you’re basically agreeing with my jokey implication that you can’t assume anyone that’s ever worked for Microsoft, past or present, can be trusted to express a truly impartial view on their output.

    Thanks. I knew you’d see it my way.

    #59 6 years ago
  60. Dr.Ghettoblaster

    this convo’s taken a turn for the worse…i’m audi-5000!

    #60 6 years ago
  61. scuz

    gabe newell was a microsoft big hat.

    they are a microsoft company.

    its not a big shock.

    its old news.

    #61 6 years ago
  62. Psychotext

    In this case Shatner, I’m quite happy to stand on the sidelines and laugh. I’m content doing that whilst judging others too.

    Enjoy another 100+ post argument over nothing. You’re not going to draw me into it. :)

    #62 6 years ago
  63. Hunam

    @59: Actually, yes, I am saying that, oddly enough. :)

    @61: They aren’t a Microsoft company if you mean they are owned in anyway by them.

    I’d actually forgotten they were all Microsoft. I can still remember the whole September 30th 2003 shit storm though :)

    #63 6 years ago
  64. Shatner

    That’s 2 posts you’ve contributed whilst trying to assert your indifference and disinterest, Psycho.

    You seem to share Mike’s amusingly insular lack of comprehension that your actions often betray your clever-sounding words.

    C’mon bigboy, make another reply telling me how you’re not making replies – it’ll be as much fun as when O’Connor repeatedly quotes me and tells me he’s ignoring me!

    #64 6 years ago
  65. Johnny Cullen

    *insert michael jackson popcorn gif here*

    #65 6 years ago
  66. Shatner


    #66 6 years ago
  67. Dr.Ghettoblaster

    do i hear…..68……….68……can we make it to 69………69……?

    #67 6 years ago
  68. Suikoden Fan

    This thread is full of laughs

    #68 6 years ago
  69. Cort

    Sixty-ninth! Woohoo.

    #69 6 years ago
  70. Cort

    PS Valve complaining about PlayStation is like the Anti-Nazi League complaining about the recent BNP election success. Automatic and predictable.

    Move on.

    #70 6 years ago
  71. Mike

    “Or, tell you what, why don’t you give us some of YOUR insights into day-to-day software development Mike? You’re obviously far more experienced that those you dscriminately seek to dismiss. Why don’t you enlighten us all with your bountiful expertise instead of empty statements that amount to nothing other than a childish effort to look big on the internet. Let’s hear it Mikey boy? Come on old bean.”

    That’s the whole point of the post I made: You never back uo anything you say. It’s always along the lines of “you lot don’t know anything, I do” but you offer no proof. You then criticise people for listening to so-called internet experts but you fail to see that’s exactly what you are, or at least how you come across. Which is funny.

    I’m not telling anyone I know better or their ideas are off-base. As if I did, I’d back it up, innit. :)

    I’m also not implying you don’t know anything, but until I see otherwise, I’m going to assume it’s the case. Not that you care what I assume, of course. :)

    #71 6 years ago
  72. deanimate

    No one’s dragging me into this banter.
    I’m going to sleep with a kittun :D

    #72 6 years ago
  73. anasui

    these articles are like voodoo talismans. You get one of em online and Shatner arises writing essays on essays. Worst thing is that someone actually replies

    #73 6 years ago
  74. Monk

    “Tell that to Naughty Dog!!”
    and Full STOP.

    #74 6 years ago
  75. David

    Valve just don’t want to put in the time to learn how to program games on the PS3. Big deal there are plenty of PS3 developers that don’t care to develop anything on the 360.

    Developers do draw lines in the sand they do pick sides. Maybe not in the same context as fan-boys do but they do. You know what who cares I enjoy games I leave the line in the sand bullshit to the teenagers.

    #75 6 years ago
  76. theevilaires

    lets break the record for 500 dammit, i’ll gas it up. fuck valve, gabe newell you fat fuck burn in hell

    #76 6 years ago
  77. frostquake

    I love you all..”Waving” OMG I just had a wardrobe malfunction, My pasty fell off, oh wait I am a dood…Now I must walk around showing my nipple proudly…and also wonder why I was Wearing a Pasty???

    #77 6 years ago
  78. Blerk

    I can understand why Valve say they don’t want to do PS3 stuff. That’s their decision.

    What I can’t understand is why they don’t just farm the PS3 ports off to a third party, like everyone else does.

    #78 6 years ago
  79. Michael O'Connor

    “Well Psycho, it seems a lot of people are intent of filling the topic out with empty posturing or mocking from the sidelines (sound familiar?).”

    The irony of this remark is lost on no-one. =)

    “The 360 collective always enjoy theses sorts of comments from Valve and always like to ignore Newell’s “360 makes my life harder” comment from some years back.”

    How does one comment by one person many years back equate to the same as *many* developers saying something on a regular, monthly basis? It doesn’t. <3 And I’m far from a 360 faithful, my dear child. *smiles* My favourite games of the current generation are all PS3 exclusives, including LittleBigPlanet.

    “Michael, go speak to a genuine software developer (instead of pretending to be one).”

    I have. Regularly. And I *am* one, noob. <3

    Sorry Shat, not going to bite to the rest of your flame baiting. =)

    “Watch, you’ll probably ARGUE something I just said…”

    “MY POINT was simply this…….if other companies can do it….then Valve can to….if they wanted to…simple as that.”

    You’re trying to compare applies to oranges here. You’re trying to compare a carpenter to a mechanic.

    Naughty Dog (just to use one example) is a consoles games producer, and a first party producer at that. Their staff is made up people hired to focus on Sony’s format *only*. Valve is a third party PC developer, who port to the 360 because it’s piss-easy to port PC games onto it.

    “But they don’t. Big deal. Who gives a fuck?”

    20,000+ people, apparently. *laughs*

    “Maybe it’s laziness, maybe they just don’t care for Sony. Maybe they’re idiots. Maybe they’re smart for avoiding Sony.”

    Maybe they just don’t care to create a new division in their company and hire 50 more staff just to port games to the PS3. This is something they’ve pointed out *numerous* times. And considering we’re in the middle of a recession, risks like that aren’t worth the cash.

    “All i know is Naughty Dog and the Uncharted series is some of the best videogaming I have ever experienced IN MY LIFE on ANY platform, and they did it on the “infinitely complex” PS3.”

    Because they’re a wholly owned subsidiary of Sony, who exist purely to do just that. And I do agree, Uncharted *is* one of the best gaming experiences I’ve had either. It’s a beautiful game and a true merit to technical prowess and smart design.

    And okay, I’ll bite. Using the words “infinitely complex” was an overblown statement. I was being flashy with my words. Would “fairly more complex” be better? =P

    “It’s not like they’re producing tons of great games. Give me the Half-Life and Portal series and I’m a happy man.”

    They might not make loads of games, but every single one Valve *does* make always ends up oozing quality and refinement. I’d rather have those great games on the PC and 360, instead of wasting time on a weak PS3 port, time that could be invested into creating more new titles.

    If people don’t own all the formats, its their own fault if they don’t get to play a certain game.

    “What I can’t understand is why they don’t just farm the PS3 ports off to a third party, like everyone else does.”

    Because that costs money, and right now, money is a hard thing to come by for any business.

    Lets not forget that E.A. did do a PS3 port of The Orange Box, but we all know how well that turned out…

    #79 6 years ago

Comments are now closed on this article.

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