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Sony – Levels of PSP piracy are “sickening”

Wednesday, 22nd April 2009 11:20 GMT By Patrick Garratt

psp3000a2

SCEA’s Peter Dille has told Gamasutra the PSP’s got a big piracy problem. Like you didn’t know.

“I’m convinced and we’re convinced that piracy has taken out a big chunk of our software sales on PSP,” Dille told Gamasutra.

“It’s been a problem that the industry has to address together; it’s one that I think the industry takes very seriously, but we need to do something to address this because it’s criminal what’s going on, quite frankly.

“It’s not good for us, but it’s not good for the development community,” he added. “We can look at data from BitTorrent sites from the day Resistance: Retribution goes on sale and see how many copies are being downloaded illegally, and it’s frankly sickening.”

Full interview through there. Thanks, Eurogamer.

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518 Comments

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  1. G1GAHURTZ

    It’s messed up.

    #1 5 years ago
  2. Gekidami

    From what i understand it isnt that easy to pirate PSP games, i think you need a PSP thats never had its firmware updated or something, unlike the DS that all it needs is a blank game card.

    #2 5 years ago
  3. anasui

    I dont remember any PR statements about the PS2. I bet they were happy with that, actually

    #3 5 years ago
  4. Cort

    Gek, pretty sure you can download something which removes FW updates.

    #4 5 years ago
  5. Blerk

    If it wasn’t for the piracy they probably wouldn’t have sold any hardware either.

    #5 5 years ago
  6. Cort

    Yes, but major piracy has cost the PSP games because developers largely abandoned the system. If there was lower piracy, we would have had more and better games which would no doubt have sold more PSPs.

    #6 5 years ago
  7. theevilaires

    its sad really, but sony just wont listen to their consumers.

    #7 5 years ago
  8. Cort

    TEA, I don’t understand:

    “sony just wont listen to their consumers”

    How so?

    #8 5 years ago
  9. SticKboy

    I think TEA means consumers resent having to pay for stuff and would much rather have it for free; thus if they can rip of the original content creator, they do so.

    #9 5 years ago
  10. Cort

    But if consumers want everything for free, why should anyone listen to them?

    #10 5 years ago
  11. SticKboy

    EXACTLY.

    #11 5 years ago
  12. DaMan

    Lmao, in the case of PSP piracy actually helped their hardware sales.

    I even remember it clear as day how someone from Sony said it himself before. Dille is a joke, they really should swap that dumbass for someone plausible.

    #12 5 years ago
  13. Gekidami

    Cort: “Gek, pretty sure you can download something which removes FW updates.”

    Yeah though i heard that the chances of bricking your PSP are high and that even then, you still have to have an earlyer firmware verison to downgrade even further.

    #13 5 years ago
  14. Cort

    “Lmao, in the case of PSP piracy actually helped their hardware sales.”

    As I’ve said elsewhere, this is very misleading. The PSP has suffered hugely from a lack of support from developers. If piracy wasn’t such a masiive problem on PSP, it would have more good games, which would have sold more hardware. So piracy has not “helped” hardware sales at all.

    #14 5 years ago
  15. DaMan

    Cort, that’s nonsense. sorry, but that’s just naive.

    like I said, they even agreed with this themselves. the quote was like “piracy is driving PSP sales”.

    #15 5 years ago
  16. Michael O'Connor

    “Lmao, in the case of PSP piracy actually helped their hardware sales. ”

    It might help hardware sales (though I’d take that belief with a pinch of salt), but it completely kills software sales. Without any software sales, developers won’t back it. Without any backing, the format won’t get many games.

    It’s amazing how so many people complain about the handheld having a lack of titles, and then they turn around and justify pirating on it.

    Hypocrites.

    And you know what? It’s nice to see Sony being upfront and honest about this. It’s a side of the company I like seeing, on the rare occasion they show that face, and it’s a refreshing change from the usual PR bullshit.

    #16 5 years ago
  17. phatb0y

    If something is worth buying – you buy it. If it isn’t – you don’t. Now whether that means just not bothering or obtaining a pirate copy is down to the individual. How can Sony be so sure this is down to piracy and not people just giving up on the machine?

    The vast majority of the PSP’s software library is pure bilge, or at the very least not very good value for money. It probably has about half-a-dozen titles that are genuinely worth shelling money out for.

    Figure into that a really shitty format which nobody is interested in and arguably makes the machine worse from a hardware perspective (that big clunky drive mechanism that adds extra size/weight and sucks life out of the battery) and a complete lack of backing from the manufacturer in terms of marketing and first party software …And you’ve got a console thats not destined for greatness.

    If it weren’t for that you could run pirated software so easily then it would probably have died on it’s arse. The fact you can have a software library (both native software and emulated stuff) that is virtually free has probably saved the PSP from achieving Virtual Boy status.

    #17 5 years ago
  18. Psychotext

    “If something is worth buying – you buy it. If it isn’t – you don’t.”

    Plus… if you’re too poor to buy it, tough. :)

    #18 5 years ago
  19. Michael O'Connor

    “It probably has about half-a-dozen titles that are genuinely worth shelling money out for.”

    That’s a matter of opinion, not a fact. As it stands, I own over two dozen games that are exclusive to the format, all of which I consider high quality titles.

    My PS3 collection, on the other hand, is only a quarter of size, barely half a dozen games.

    “The fact you can have a software library (both native software and emulated stuff) that is virtually free has probably saved the PSP from achieving Virtual Boy status.”

    I call uneducated bullshit on that remark. The PSP was selling very well right from its inception, before all the piracy and cracking even became a problem. Comparing it to possible Virtual Boy status is more than a bit of an over-exaggeration.

    #19 5 years ago
  20. G1GAHURTZ

    This is why people buy PSP’s but don’t buy the games.

    #20 5 years ago
  21. DaMan

    ” It’s amazing how so many people complain about the handheld having a lack of titles, and then they turn around and justify pirating on it. ”

    was that referring to me, Michael? I sold my PSP long ago, after comparing it to DS and mobile games. my choice was based entirely on the PSP itself, on Sony’s idea of a handheld device.

    #21 5 years ago
  22. Cort

    DaMan, nonsense how? Are you saying a software library has no effect on hardware sales? If the PSP had a much bigger and better game library – which it would if developers thought they could make money on it – the PSP would not sell any more units? Of course it would.

    Again, it is largely because of piracy that developers have ignored the system. So saying that without piracy the PSP would have flopped is fallacious. Without piracy we’d have many more games.

    Stories about how pirates are not to blame remind me of the story about the man who broke his leg falling down the stairs:

    Visitor in hospital: “How did you fall down the stairs?”
    Man with broken leg: “I stumbled because I had a broken leg.”
    Visitor: “Er, wasn’t the broken leg *caused* by the fall?”

    Piracy is the cause (the fall), not the symptom (the broken leg).

    Oh, and to finish with my normal statement on this subject: pirates are common thieves.

    #22 5 years ago
  23. Michael O'Connor

    “was that referring to me, Michael? ”

    It was referring to anyone trying to justify pirating on the machine to the level that it currently exists. Hey, I download a movie or an old game off the internet every now and then… but sabotaging an entire format? No.

    It’s stuff like that which kills companies.

    I might consider buying a second PSP in the future purely for modding purposes such as stuff like in that video above, but I’d still support the format with a proper PSP and buying the games.

    #23 5 years ago
  24. Cort

    Perhaps Sony should open up the PSP fully, offering the opportunity for owners to do with it what they want. And anyone who connects a hacked unit to the software can have it bricked!

    That will sort the “homebrewers” from the “pirates”. (Of course, I’ll skirt round the fact that 99.5% of people who refer to themselves as the former are actually the latter………)

    #24 5 years ago
  25. theevilaires

    Thats not what i meant dickboy. Im just saying they should have taken better strides in the psp’s overall development that would have prevented less piracy on the platform.

    The people I know who have downloaded pirated games onto their psp’s have told me they would have never done it if Sony would have released the types of firmware they wanted.
    Now that might seem like a stupid reason but once these guys hacked their systems, playing pirated games was just a bonus to them. If the PS3 wasn’t so expenisive (to the average consumer)more people would hack it also. In my opinion its not for piracy, just for homebrew development.

    Also the price structure of the downloadable games is a bit unfair and stupid and lame and dumb and a turnoff and,and,and…. Its a great handheld but damn I would love to know the reason(s) why they aren’t really pushing it to its full potential. Maybe they don’t want the psp(1) to be around to overshadow the psp(2).

    Please leave your feed back because this is a topic that needs a resolution as to why Sony is really dropping the ball with the psp. If you have a psp please comment.

    #25 5 years ago
  26. DaMan

    Cort – I didn’t say software has no impact on the platform’s sales. I called nonsense the part where you’ve said piracy didn’t help PSP at all. because it did, not everyone lives in USA or UK, not everyone gets all the games at the same time as gringos. and in some countries it’s very expensive to play on say, PS3 instead of PC because of the cost of games. people there can get a PS3 but what costs them a lot is the software. and hence they pirate it. why the fuck should say, aussies pay that much because of where they live? pirates aren’t the problem, the problem is taxes ( and the such ).

    #26 5 years ago
  27. Michael O'Connor

    Ignoring that rather childish “dickboy” remark, I actually agree with what TEA just said. I don’t condone the piracy, but Sony really could have taken more steps when developing the format to ensure such blatant loopholes weren’t available to abuse.

    It’s a level of incompetence that ranks up there with the quality of the 360′s internal hardware back during its launch. I’m sure you all know what I’m referring to.

    #27 5 years ago
  28. Cort

    Eh? I didn’t say piracy didn’t help the PSP, I said that without piracy the PSP would have *still* done well or maybe even better – consequently it is no excuse for piracy itself or a justification for the handheld’s hardware success!! So, IN EFFECT piracy hasn’t helped.

    You said that piracy has sold PSPs. Yes, indeed it has. But as I said, without piracy it would *still* have sold units because it would have had a bigger and better library!

    “pirates aren’t the problem, the problem is taxes”

    The argument that stealing something is okay if you cannot afford is fucking bullshit. Not got enough money for a game? Work harder for it. Can’t? Tough. I want an Aston Martin V8 Vantage, but no matter how hard I work I can never afford one.

    #28 5 years ago
  29. phatb0y

    Mike, I probably own about the same. Mostly RPGs, which arguably I’ve got no reason to hang onto any longer as they’ve been played to death and they only sit on my shelf for OCD reasons. Stuff like Wipeout Pure/Pulse, Tekken (the flagship title imho), the Monster Hunters and the Ridge Racers still get played regularly. Everything else I’ve owned has been traded within 1-2 weeks. Throwing good money after bad? Probably. My point still stands; most PSP games are shit.

    Okay, this might turn into ‘Our Tune’, but long-winded anecdote to illustrate a point and all that…

    Among friends and family I’ve known about 16 PSP owners off the top of my head. Out of that number maybe 4-5 were owners from launch (friends). My three nephews had one each for Xmas ’05 (I think). The rest I’m unsure of. Anyway, my nephews sold theirs not a year later. Various friends sold theirs or gave them to siblings etc. Now out of that 16, 4 people still own one, myself included. As I said, purely anecdotal, and probably not the best cross-section of PSP owners out there (mainly kids with parents that have more money than sense and geeks) but this isn’t a good sign. Most people I know of will hang onto a console even if they don’t play it regularly. After all, the resale value isn’t mega and there might be something coming out in the future that tickles your fancy, or it may get dusted off at Xmas to get relatives flustered with new fangled controllers. To cut a long story short – based on the people I know the PSP didn’t get a good reception. Among the ones still owning PSPs they do so because of the ‘free’ software (mostly emu stuff, it has to be said).

    I honestly think that the ease of which PSPs can be dicked around with has had an impact on hardware sales. There are a lot of modded PSPs out there and a not insignificant community behind them. Anecdotal again, but all of the people I know who own one have a modded PSP.

    #29 5 years ago
  30. Shatner

    For those that like to present the notion that the PSP only sells due to piracy they should have a look at Japanese software sales charts and also remember that, in the UK, the PSP had the strongest launch of any console – beating both the DS and Wii. So everyone was pirating from day one then? Sure.

    Piracy is not a response to cost or quality. If it was then crappy freeware PC games wouldn’t be pirated. Piracy is a response to greed and the likelihood that you’ll get away with committing a crime. Piracy is about getting something for nothing and getting away with it. What that something is is largely unimportant.

    And given that we keep on being told of new games such as Dante’s Inferno or Ys or many others show that developers are NOT giving up on the machine. Reports of its death have been greatly exaggerated. Usually by people that declare nothing is coming out when they never look at what forthcoming releases are and who then repeat the mantra that “there’s no good games to play on PSP” or one of its variants – like our friend Mr. Microsoft in #20.

    Furthermore, an absence of a proliferation of shovelware is hardly a point against the machine.

    Sure, piracy is an issue. It will be for quite some time (again, cutting retailers and then physical product out of the loop will stem piracy). Looking at the newsgroups you’ll find every single release for EVERY console dumped on or before day of release.

    #30 5 years ago
  31. DaMan

    ” Eh? I didn’t say piracy didn’t help the PSP ”

    Cort says: ” piracy has not “helped” hardware sales at all. ”

    ” The argument that stealing something is okay if you cannot afford is fucking bullshit. Not got enough money for a game? Work harder for it. Can’t? Tough. I want an Aston Martin V8 Vantage, but no matter how hard I work I can never afford one. ”
    anyone who thinks like that can go fuck himself actually. that’s like saying “want to be a coder?” “don’t have a pc?” “well, that’s too bad, work harder or fuck off”. by your logic this person must first get money by sucking dicks? or perhaps become a politician?

    and anyway piracy isn’t even remotely close to stealing someone’s stuff.

    if I would be an aussie, I’d pirate every single game.

    #31 5 years ago
  32. Shatner

    “and anyway piracy isn’t even remotely close to stealing someone’s stuff.”

    That’s exactly what it is. With the added harm that one act of piracy affects nearly everyone associated with the production of the product being stolen.

    Piracy is greed without accountability. I’ve never heard a pirate make any succesful excuse as to why they should pirate. The same goes for those that approve the practice.

    Cheap thieving scumbags believe they are entitled to whatever they take a fancy too and obtaining it legitimately is merely an option. The real options are: if you’re not prepared to pay for it you go without.

    I’ve never ever seen a pirate acknowledge the option of doing without. It simply doesn’t occur to them.

    #32 5 years ago
  33. phatb0y

    There are good titles in the pipeline Shatner. I know I’ll be getting Disgaea 2, Ys and whatever the next flavour of Monster Hunter is. You have to admit that the PSP is right up there with the Wii in the signal to noise ratio stakes. The ease of piracy just compounds the problem.

    #33 5 years ago
  34. DaMan

    well, I see that as sharing, Shatner. like if I’ve bought some chocolate I can give some of it to my friend. :)

    what you’re saying would be true if my government wouldn’t be what it is.

    #34 5 years ago
  35. Michael O'Connor

    I’ll apologise for the blatant self promotion later (not really, of course), but this news story inspired me to start a debate on this subject.

    If you’re interested, its here: http://www.thegamingvault.com/2009/04/evening-topic-justify-piracy/

    #35 5 years ago
  36. Shatner

    And, DaMan, instantly demonstrates what I just said about supposed entitlement and not ever contemplating the option of ‘doing without’.

    There are no copyright laws governing the right to redistribute a piece of chocolate. It holds no intellectual properties and is a consumable – so it’s a wildly different product. Your comparison fails. Totally.

    Check your copyright. Most parts of the civilised world (which I’ll assume fairly closely matches the parts of the world where videogaming is regarded as an affordable hobby) acknowledge copyright law which forbids lending and unauthorised reproduction. In many cases, because of crybabies moping about DRM a copy is allowed to be made only for backup purposes. “Lending to my mate” is still prohibited.

    I maintain I’ve NEVER seen anyone present an argument FOR piracy that is not some sort of excuse for greed at the expense of many working individuals. DaMan is just another example of this behaviour.

    Theft is theft. Regardless of which government you live under. So stop making excuses and grinning as you steal from people.

    #36 5 years ago
  37. Mike

    @O’Conner: It seems we’re having that conversation now though…

    #37 5 years ago
  38. DaMan

    Shatner.. a smiley was there for a reason.

    and you’re entitled to your view on this, but like I said, I see nothing wrong with people pirating games if they don’t want to spend a shitload of money on them, let alone those who would otherwise never get their hands on them no matter what.

    #38 5 years ago
  39. Shatner

    Then I sincerely hope you have your property stolen and keep smiling when those stealing from you smile as they explain it’s ok because they’re going give your stuff to their mates because their mates aren’t prepared to pay money for them or accept that they should do without.

    If you’re not prepared to pay the asking price for something you are not entitled to it. You do without it.

    Can’t afford a luxury product like a videogame? Tough shit. Stealing from people is not acceptable under any context.

    It’s really that simple.

    #39 5 years ago
  40. Psychotext

    I find myself agreeing with Shatner. A dark day indeed.

    /adds an entry to spreadsheet

    #40 5 years ago
  41. phatb0y

    Shatner, you’re answering your own question here though. If there is no accountability then no justification is required.

    Greed requires no justification. You can fly into nerdrage and say you hate them for it, but its like arguing with a dog after it bites you.

    Pirates may be scum in your eyes, but they’ll continue to be pirates until the risk outweighs the reward. Simple as that.

    I’ve ripped off my fair share of software in the past, but the older I got the more I realised that I got arguably less enjoyment out of it. I guess you could call it a case of ’2,000,000 channels and nothing on’. I used to have literally hundreds of copied Amiga games. Boxes full of the fuckers. The local Amiga ‘club’ (BO, beer, cheap disks and a venue with plenty of plug sockets) was nothing short of a hundred or so people with X-Copy running for an hour or two every week. I’d have all this software for fuck all, cracked, usually with a cheat menu on boot-up, and I’d race through them in a few hours then never play them again. It took a while to realise that wasn’t gaming. It was just avarice and a pissing competition among friends as to who had the most games.

    Nowadays I’ll buy something and actually play it. Savour it I suppose, if that doesn’t sound too melodramatic. Basically get my moneys worth out of it. In fact I’ve gone full circle. Even if I could be bothered to download everything that looked half-interesting I’d feel the need to go out and buy a copy if I actually liked it.

    Sure, I’ve got memory cards full of emulated stuff, and thats no better or worse than ripping off a recent title, but hey, if a publisher decided to bring out, say, a decent compilation of Neo Geo games for the PSP I’d have that fucker on pre-order in a heart beat.

    #41 5 years ago
  42. DaMan

    Shatner.. you go and tell that to kids on N4G . being a coder that makes games myself, I’ve seen countless times how the stuff that I ‘ve made was being shared on the internet. still, my view remains the same.

    #42 5 years ago
  43. Neolucifer

    It helped hardware but not software . Frankly piracy isnt the plague they say and possibly a blessing when it’s on a massively popular already console , such as ps1 , ps2 , maybe 360 and definitely the DS .

    However the psp often and still struggle in the software department . And with struggling consoles piracy is indeed a finishing blow .

    When for the first year all you offer and weaker ps2 port , of course , piracy is going to kill you .

    What i dont get is why those comments now by Sony ? Even since a particular model of psp 2004 slim , there console hasnt been hacked , and sales have been better , in part because of this , but also far better game that in the early years

    #43 5 years ago
  44. theevilaires

    Man i’m sick of this bullshit. I’ve always supported the games industry with combating piracy (unlike the movie and music industry). If stealing is stealing then do you think devs steal from us. Have you ever bought a game for MSRP and got home and played it,and said to yourself this isn’t worth the price you paid?

    These damn devs are taking us for granted by producing shit titles and trying to sell it at a premium price. Some $60 dollar games just aren’t worth $60. Plain and simple. They know it and they still set the price at $60. Vampire Rain wasn’t a $60 game DAMMIT!!!!!,SFHDremix wasn’t worth $15, most of these damn titles on psn/xbla aren’t worth $15. You all know they would sell much better at $9.99 each. Its the nickel and dime shit that causes piracy. Its these greedy mother fuckers who think they deserve $2-5-10-20 million dollar bonuses that cause piracy.

    These business structures have to change in order to create a better balance and it must be done in the consumers advantage.

    AS i’ve said before FUCK the Movie and Music industries.
    I just hope I don’t start feeling the same way about video games.

    #44 5 years ago
  45. Shatner

    I have a pretty reasonable attitude to piracy. I know why it occurs and I understand the mentality behind it.

    What is totally unnecessary, however, is those who approve of the behaviour and do so by winking, nodding and using such fractured logic as DaMan has demonstrated to make their own actions seem better than what it is: theft. The moral pirate and his cousin, the victim pirate are fooling nobody and only demonstrate how little they understand their own actions because their refusal to deny themselves things they’re not entitled to seems abhorrent to them – when it even crosses their mind.

    The logic that “I pirate as a service to my mates because game prices are too high” is so broken on so many levels that it’s laughable. I wonder what sort of behaviour could keep driving prices up?!

    Why do we see LOWER prices on services such as DLC or digital delivery? Could it be the anything to do with the limited piracy on these platforms?!?

    Yes, I know the futility of all of this. But if thieves are going to continue to steal then I’ll continue to call them thieves.

    Consider it cause and effect – something else pirates don’t seem to understand.

    I’m all in favour of people voting with their wallets. If a product is poor quality and overpriced then don’t buy it. But don’t argue that it’s not worth the asking price and then slyly treat yourself to it anyway. That’s a major reason why things are priced the way they are. Such behaviour is only going to ADD to the problem, not the solution.

    #45 5 years ago
  46. DaMan

    Shatner, you’ve made your point already.. do you want to win this comment section or something?

    ” I’ll continue to call them thieves”. well, that’s great, that’s still your opinion though. you shouldn’t be forcing it on others.

    #46 5 years ago
  47. SticKboy

    Shatner’s not forcing his opinion in anybody – on this matter he’s 100% right. His viewpoint is the *only* morally justifiable one.

    Shatner, how do you feel about stealing abandonware? I’m of the “live and let live” opinion when it comes to games that nobody is making money off of any more.

    #47 5 years ago
  48. DaMan

    and anyway, a simple question: say I wouldn’t buy a game, never. but I got it from my friend. how does that harm the publisher if I wouldn’t get it anyway? actions such as this are completely understandable and plausible, but say, people who simply don’t want to spend $30 on game is a different thing.

    #48 5 years ago
  49. Mike

    Nothing’s black and white. Nothing.

    #49 5 years ago
  50. Shatner

    No, it’s a fact, not an opinion. You’re a thief because you steal.

    You’re not performing some noble service. Your taking something for nothing.

    And now you’re trying to make it sound like your better than a thief. You’re not. And you won’t be until you stop stealing from people.

    It’s really that simple.

    But thieves like to try and obfuscate the issue to make your very clear shitty behaviour seem a little more acceptable by introducing shades of grey.

    We’ve all seen it before. You’re just a thief in (smiling) denial and one of the reasons why games are priced at the level they are.

    DaMan, you have absolutely no moral leg to stand on. The more “justification” you try to present the worse you’ll make it for yourself.

    If you wish to stop being branded a thief then you should stop acting like one.

    Simple.

    #50 5 years ago
  51. DaMan

    please, answer the question I ‘ve posted.

    #51 5 years ago
  52. freedoms_stain

    Lower prices for digital content and delivery are generally down to lower overheads rather much to do with piracy.

    #52 5 years ago
  53. DaMan

    and anyway, Shatner. I see no point in such ‘morals’, don’t blame the people, blame the society that was built and they’re living in.

    a huge chunk of money for the game goes to the publisher, not to mention taxes.

    #53 5 years ago
  54. Shatner

    Stickboy,

    I’m fairly cool with piracy. It’s these ‘moral pirates’ who try to disguise their shameless greed as something noble that I’ve zero tolerance for.

    Abandonware is a fuzzy area. I think it’s most legitimate definition is to make available software that the original publishers/authors have, effectively, abandoned.

    I’m all for it. Home of the Underdogs is (was) an amazing resource and actually led me to one of my all time favourite games (DRoD – which is under active development). In a lot of cases, actually, abandonware is more trouble than it can be worth – trying to get ancient software running on new operating systems can be tricky. For those reasons alone it’s not quite as subject to opportunistic greed as conventional piracy. I suspect there’s a percentage of abandonware users that may have bought the original game back in the day that are now re-acquiring it.

    DaMan, accepting stolen goods doesn’t grant you rights to them or get you off the hook. It seems as if the logic that a 9 year old is capable of grasping is beyond you: if you haven’t paid for it, you don’t have the right to it.

    Again, and just as I said you would, you’re seeking to obfuscate the very simple concept of stealing by wriggling around and presenting different scenarios.

    Theft is still theft.

    It’s that simple.

    #54 5 years ago
  55. SticKboy

    Shatner, you should go on GamePolitics.com and chat with ZippyDSMlee. Well… that is if you like to give yourself the occasional brain embolism.

    #55 5 years ago
  56. Shatner

    FreedomsStain – can you prove that?
    Look at full games distributed on Steam – they’re the same games but cheaper. How were the overheads any different? The cost of manufacturing 10,000 boxes won’t be worlds apart from the costs of hosting and transferring 10,000 DVD’s worth of data on the internet.

    And what about the overheads of The Lost and The Damned?

    DaMan, unfortunately for you, you don’t rule the world. So just because YOU don’t see the need for morals doesn’t excuse you from your actions. I suspect you’re more than happy to benefit from society’s morals when it works in your favour. You don’t run society. You don’t rule capitalism. The rules are not yours to make, judge or break.

    You’re not above the law.

    Your excuses will ALWAYS fail. You have no justification for you behaviour.

    #56 5 years ago
  57. DaMan

    what? I said I’m not saying it is “fair”. nor did I obfuscate anything. this is bullshit, Shatner. the fact is that in most countries people aren’t in the same position as in say, US. simple as that. and I couldn’t give less of a shit if you call that a ‘criminal’. am I a ‘criminal ‘if I buy something that’s banned in my area as well, like some book or a movie?

    #57 5 years ago
  58. Shatner

    I love brain embolisms. Thanks SticKboy, I’ll do it straight away!

    <3

    DaMan, stop throwing different scenarios and, for god’s sake, don’t even think about following through with any sort of ‘victim’ rhetoric.

    You steal. You steal knowingly. You know what you’re doing is wrong. Smiling as you do it doesn’t make your actions any less wrong.

    As I said before, the best thing that can happen to you is a very heavy dose of karma. That’d certainly put a smile on my face.

    Now, if I were you I’d stop making this situation worse for yourself and stop making increasingly silly excuses for your actions.

    Have a nice day.

    #58 5 years ago
  59. DaMan

    ” I suspect you’re more than happy to benefit from society’s morals when it works in your favour. ”

    and how is that? I do that by saying my view on piracy didn’t change after I’ve seen a copy of the game I developed on a torrent?

    Shatner, you’re the ‘law’? who are you to say what’s wrong and what’s right? just because you quote something that was approved by the government?

    jeesus.. you jump to stupid conclusions just because I have another view on society. that’s pathetic.

    go and make a game that will sell good even with all those torrents around, Shatner..

    #59 5 years ago
  60. freedoms_stain

    @ Shatner

    bandwidth is far cheaper than manufacturing costs + shipping costs + the cost of renting your shop (+ utilities) + the cost of your staff. All those things go into the cost of a game at a retail outlet without even a hint of the word “profit”.

    #60 5 years ago
  61. Shatner

    I’m not the law and never claimed I was. But I know your actions, as you’ve described them, are unlawful.

    Now, if you’re some new-age tree-hugging hippie that wants anarchy and to crash the governemt be my guest.

    But you’re sitting there typing on your computer, using the internet and stealing videogames. So your vague references to living outside of society aren’t very convincing.

    If I were you I’d stop commenting. Seriously.

    #61 5 years ago
  62. DaMan

    Shatner, I would be very interested in seeing you saying that in my face, my man.. you know, like are you simply a 25 yo prick from UK who worked on one project or actually someone who knows his stuff? I wonder..

    I’m making videogames and that brings me money, Shatner.
    I described piracy as it is. and my view on it is based on seeing people in countries outside of the nicest ones, like the one you’re living in. not on bullshit papers approved by some officials. simple as that.

    besides, I don’t remember me starting all this. if I were you I’d probably go back to lulwut style of typing.

    #62 5 years ago
  63. Shatner

    Freedom’s – the overheads of the shop are not the overheads of the software maker. Retailers have many ways to counter their unique overheads such as the second hand market where they pocket the entire profit rather than taking a smaller margin.

    And when you’re manufacturing in the sort of quantities are mentioned then your unit costs go down. By contrast when your data transfers rates don’t get discounted the more data you transfer. It’s the opposite, if anything.

    #63 5 years ago
  64. SticKboy

    HAHAHA! Shatner’s worked on FAR bigger games than you, DaMan!

    #64 5 years ago
  65. Mike

    Bigger /= better.

    #65 5 years ago
  66. SticKboy

    I know… I actually deleted my comment questioning whether they were any good or not (old jokes die hard), as I didn’t feel it was relevant. I understand Shatner’s position, becuase I’d wager that we’ve both seen people lose jobs (i.e. get made redundant) due to rampant piracy. Once it hits so close to home (i.e. *your* home), opinions tend to clarify very quickly.

    #66 5 years ago
  67. Shatner

    DaMan, I’d be more than happy to call you a thief to your face. As I said earlier, if you dislike being branded a thief then stop behaving like one.

    It’s very simple, isn’t it? I’m pretty certain everyone else can grasp it.

    And, again, trying to let your theft off the hook and obfuscate matters by suggesting different parts of the world have different standards of living isn’t going to work.

    Theft is theft. It’s that simple. Even though you’ve repeatedly tried to complicate it.

    You’re not some anti-social hippie that’s speaking out against capitalism (apparently you make videogames and earn money from them – I’m not sure I believe that based on your behaviour and other comments but it certainly destroys any ‘I live outside of society and capitalism’ angle you want to use doesn’t it? :D ). You’re not stealing food to live. You’re stealing VIDEOGAMES. Luxury products. You won’t (you won’t even suffer) if you don’t have them. So stop with suggestion that you’re a victim of your environment.

    You’re nothing more than a greedy thief. If you don’t like that label then you know what to do.

    #67 5 years ago
  68. Mike

    Stickboy: Yeah, doesn’t make them any more valid, however. In fact, a decision/viewpoint that carries subjective emotion becomes weakened and clouded, imo.

    #68 5 years ago
  69. DaMan

    fyi I live in a country where being a game dev is far harder than in UK, Stickboy. I actually don’t see how your last remark makes any sense.

    #69 5 years ago
  70. Mike

    Theft isn’t just theft either, Shatner. But you know that.

    #70 5 years ago
  71. Shatner

    StickBoy, just to be clear, I’m pretty tolerant of piracy. I’m also tolerant of DRM. And of retail prices of videogames.

    I’m not tolerant of crybaby thieves that think their greed and sense of entitlement gives them right to steal from whoever they choose and then talk about it as though they’re in the right.

    Also, I know which games I’ve worked on. Which is more than can be said for anyone else in this topic. No matter how smart they think they are.

    Guesswork /= fact

    You’d have thought certain people would have learned this from their shitty journalistic antics of yesterday. :D

    #71 5 years ago
  72. Mike

    The truth /= your opinion, Shatner my old son.

    #72 5 years ago
  73. theevilaires

    stickboy aren’t you in love or something? go chase after the one (and only) girl who would give you the time of any day and stop starting shit

    #73 5 years ago
  74. SticKboy

    Take it from all of us, especially those of us who only have a passing fondness for Shatner – he isn’t “a 25 y/o prick from the UK”. He knows his stuff and can speak about the industry from a position of greater authority than many.

    That’s all I meant, I certainly don’t mean to cause offence, I’m, not about conflict in the slightest*.

    (*Well, apart from this *one* time on the old forums… but I was having a slow day that day ;) )

    #74 5 years ago
  75. theevilaires

    Shatner i was offended by your last comment, I’ve worked on many games in my time

    #75 5 years ago
  76. freedoms_stain

    What kind of logic is that Shatner? The overheads of a digital distribution platform aren’t the overheads of a software maker either, they still contribute to the cost of the game to the end user.

    Or are we talking about something else now?

    I was responding to your comment about how reduced piracy was responsible for lower costs of digital distribution methods. That’s the costs to us, not the software maker, right?

    Running a retail store costs more than any other platform, because of the reasoning I gave above, why can Amazon sell a CD at 6.99 while the retailer charges 12.99? Because it costs less to rent a couple of storage buildings and a couple of dozen guys to pack orders than it does to rent dozens of stores and hundreds of shop staff.

    Why are drm-free music downloads (including flac) cheaper than retail (at RRP)? because bandwidth and hosting is cheaper than the store, and guess what? drm-free music downloads are damned easy to pirate.

    And how about this: go to any torrent site you fancy and search for a game you KNOW requires Steam registration to work and see if you can’t find it uploaded and cracked. I bet you can, cus I just did the very thing for HL2 and The Last Remnant, and they’re both there.

    I don’t think your point about digital distribution costs and piracy holds any water. Sorry.

    Piracy is stealing, but digital distribution doesn’t stop it.

    #76 5 years ago
  77. Mike

    @Stickboy: So everyone who works in the games industry is an authority on it?

    #77 5 years ago
  78. SticKboy

    Oh, I *love* you TEA – you’re awesome! *kisses*

    #78 5 years ago
  79. Shatner

    “@Stickboy: So everyone who works in the games industry is an authority on it?”

    Uh oh. Mike’s defensive instincts have fired up!

    I think it’s fair to say that anyone who works in the games industry is a damn sight more informed than someone who doesn’t.

    A decent games journalist already understands that disparity.

    Observing /= doing

    #79 5 years ago
  80. Mike

    I know infinitely more than you. I’ve got papers to prove it. Where are yours? :)

    #80 5 years ago
  81. theevilaires

    Shatner said: Also, I know which games I’ve worked on. Which is more than can be said for anyone else in this topic. No matter how smart they think they are.

    Guesswork /= fact

    ….oh you mean pyschotext :P

    (trying to reach for 100, I know he’s reading this)

    #81 5 years ago
  82. Monk

    it`s like the PS3 problem, have a big price, with amazing properties, but now after DS, it`s being shit !!
    look at deferance between the two console, all of them
    ( piracy ), the psp have amazing graphics but more
    pricey.

    that`s all what i see!

    #82 5 years ago
  83. theevilaires

    yea congrats on the masters Mike

    #83 5 years ago
  84. Mike

    Thanks, TEA. I’d like to add, I got my Masters in a foreign language too: i.e. I’m English but live in Denmark which really does emphasise what an amazing achievement it is. :)

    Seriously though, cheers.

    #84 5 years ago
  85. theevilaires

    doesn’t DS have those R4 cartridge things that have cause a lot of piracy problems for Nintendon’t

    #85 5 years ago
  86. theevilaires

    yea getting a masters is no easy task. my hat goes off to that one congrats :-)

    #86 5 years ago
  87. DaMan

    Shatner, when do you have time for coding your stuff, hmm?

    you’re a strange guy. you’re arguing with a point I ‘ve never made. okay, it IS morally wrong, okay, you could say they’re “thieves”. and? I will sit here, with my morals, trying to make myself believe that hurting a publisher is wrong, while someone else will spend my taxes on entertainment.. what’s the point of that?

    oh dear, and I of course believe you’re John Carmack, I bet that guy spends as much time as you do on a board arguing with everyone at least every week. do you know how many times I’ve seen you talking to others like you do atm? please, you can look up an article about second hand games,or something else. jeesus.. at least stick to the topic, my man. in fact it’s a pity I’m not from UK, would be easy chatting with you irl.

    #87 5 years ago
  88. Shatner

    Respec’ to Mike for his Masters.

    What’s next on your education/career agenda then?

    “Shatner, when do you have time for coding your stuff, hmm?”

    Easy with those assumptions boyo!

    Why don’t you ask Mike? He knows EVERYTHING about me. Hell, he can probably tell you how many fingers I’m holding up right now!

    #88 5 years ago
  89. SticKboy

    @ Mike – not now, pal. This is a piracy conversation. Suffice to say that I’m more of an authority than your Mum, who I’ve reason to believe is gay. Are these two facts interlinked? WHO CAN SAY???

    (PS: ‘grats on the MA, buddy :) )

    #89 5 years ago
  90. Mike

    @Stickboy: :D

    #90 5 years ago
  91. theevilaires

    you know who shatner reminds me of?……L from death note. I get the impression he’s sitting in a dark room with only a mac book and a microphone.

    #91 5 years ago
  92. theevilaires

    I wonder who would win a chess match between Shatner and Mike?

    #92 5 years ago
  93. dirigiblebill

    Shatner yesterday.

    Mike this morning.

    #93 5 years ago
  94. Shatner

    I’d let Mike win. Just to soften him up for future confrontations. :D

    DaMan, I believe the topic we were discussing was you being a thief whichever way you try to dress it up. We’ve established that pretty clearly and, now that Mike has done his drive-by change-the-topic stuff again, we’ve moved on. A bit.

    ;)

    #94 5 years ago
  95. Seraphemz

    ok…im going to take a shot at 100..

    #95 5 years ago
  96. Seraphemz

    You think that they will be more pirating now that the PSP wont have UMD ??

    If you all discussed this before i was to lazy to read all the way back and through all of Shatners posts…

    #96 5 years ago
  97. theevilaires

    Nice pic of “shatner yesterday” DB, I think i’m going to watch the (1st)Matrix later on :P …in High Def that I pirated :P

    Just joking Shat :P

    #97 5 years ago
  98. DaMan

    Shatner – will it help you sleep at night calling pirates that word? good then, now point being (and it was my point from the start) – why start with these guys who want games when the actual problem isn’t them? let’s say they’re cut off the internet and can’t get the stuff. will that help anyone? and – *I mean the guys who would never buy the stuff otherwise*.

    first, localize games with reasonable prices in my area, and don’t release them a year after gringos. then I will never type a word ‘torrent’ again.

    #98 5 years ago
  99. theevilaires

    you’re my Robin Hood DaMan….that sounds a bit strange

    #99 5 years ago
  100. Seraphemz

    100 !!! HA HA !!! Finally… booyah !

    Daman – If people couldnt pirate, they would go out and buy… at least i think so.

    #100 5 years ago
  101. DaMan

    duh, where there’s Shatner – there’s 100+ comments.

    #101 5 years ago
  102. theevilaires

    No if people couldn’t pirate they would shop lift. Anyway pirating is like the A.I.D.S virus,its already out there and there’s no way to stop it.

    #102 5 years ago
  103. Gekidami

    Seraphemz: “If people couldnt pirate, they would go out and buy… at least i think so.”

    I seriously doubt that, in most cases the people who pirate games would simpley have never played them if they couldnt download i’m sure.

    #103 5 years ago
  104. theevilaires

    Shatner you’re telling me you never pirated a piece of software before? Come on Shat,come on. Who here has never pirated anything in their life. Who?….

    #104 5 years ago
  105. Seraphemz

    ..not me. I download movies all the time.

    But games I dont like to pirate, i feel like i lose quality when its been pirated, so I prefer to get the game.

    I guess im in the minority..

    #105 5 years ago
  106. theevilaires

    thank you for coming out of the closet Seraphemz,anyone else. Come on don’t be shy big brother doesn’t care about video game websites.

    #106 5 years ago
  107. DaMan

    Seraphemz, thanks to the cost of console games’ copies where I live devs practically don’t make games for consoles. even if they do, the’re not being released here. it’s either PC or handheld gaming. I said I’m not talking about areas where the prices are reasonable.

    #107 5 years ago
  108. Seraphemz

    ‘thank you for coming out of the closet Seraphemz’ – maybe you could have put it an other way…

    Where do you live DaMan? Maybe…you should move.

    #108 5 years ago
  109. DaMan

    haha, it’s not China or Saudi Arabia or something like that. well, it’s not that bad in other ways, but it’s a bad place to play console games. at least “legally” =P.

    #109 5 years ago
  110. theevilaires

    he must live in CUBA

    #110 5 years ago
  111. Seraphemz

    Well you know what, to tell you the truth, if I was in your situation, and i had a chance to get a game for free.. or pay a lot for it. I would get it free.

    Can you at least say what continent you are in?

    #111 5 years ago
  112. DaMan

    no. Cuba is way worse actually.

    but, I don’t want to disclose it like this.

    #112 5 years ago
  113. Gekidami

    It bet he lives in… Indonesia! Am i right or am i right?

    #113 5 years ago
  114. DaMan

    no, I’m not asian.

    it’s on Eurasia.

    #114 5 years ago
  115. Gekidami

    Romania then.

    #115 5 years ago
  116. theevilaires

    You know what it doesn’t matter what you do and how you do it.Trust me DaMan you’re not taking food out of these devs mouths (look at gabe newell).Just make sure that when you get to those “PEARLY GATES” you have a damn good reason :-)

    I salute you for being brave and coming out despite the so called “backlash” you got or may still get.

    #116 5 years ago
  117. theevilaires

    Hes Turkish :P

    #117 5 years ago
  118. Seraphemz

    TEA for President.

    #118 5 years ago
  119. Michael O'Connor

    So Shatner’s a big important game developing guy?

    Hmmm… who might that be?

    #119 5 years ago
  120. DaMan

    not Romania, Geki. not Turkish either.

    forget it, I’m not saying.

    #120 5 years ago
  121. Gekidami

    Shatner = Hideo Kojima, its true.

    Ah! You didnt say no to Turkey DaMan, much be Turkey then.

    #121 5 years ago
  122. Seraphemz

    The word “Eurasia” is often used in Kazakhstan as the name of the continent or region in which that country is located

    ( i like this game.. ‘Guess where DaMan is DaFrom’)

    #122 5 years ago
  123. theevilaires

    Shatner is a C.I.A. agent

    #123 5 years ago
  124. DaMan

    no lmao, not Kazakhstan.

    I said, I don’t won’t to post it with guys like Shatner around =P.

    #124 5 years ago
  125. theevilaires

    Shatner is Jesus….not christ, but the puerto rican dude who owns the corner store in downtown Bronx :P

    #125 5 years ago
  126. Seraphemz

    You mean like ‘Hey-Zeus’ ?

    #126 5 years ago
  127. theevilaires

    yea Jesus thats how its pronounced in spanish

    #127 5 years ago
  128. theevilaires

    Shatner is Chuck Norris,Pikachu,Kaz Hari,Steven Segal,and Patrick Garratt rolled into one.

    Shanters just one bad MoFo

    #128 5 years ago
  129. Shatner

    This notion of “Well, bring the price down and I’ll stop pirating” is rubbish.

    Pirates are in no position to dictate actions. They’re in the wrong by thieving in the first place.

    If you disagree with the price then don’t pay it. But if you’re not prepared to pay for something then you’re NOT ENTITLED to it either. Again, there is no MORAL ground for this. The theft isn’t food, warmth, shelter or any sort of necessity. It’s videogames, music, movies and so on. LUXURIES.

    The only price a pirate wants anything to be is FREE. And all that will do is give them reason to question what theft is if the cost of the product being stolen is free. And, as such, they’ll just continue their behaviour anyway.

    Piracy ISN’T a result of costs, it’s a result of GREED. Costs are a (partly) a result of piracy.

    The pirate has no bargaining power and no rights. He’s a thief and a lawbreaker.

    To put this in terms DaMan can appreciate: when a thief comes into your home and steals your goods you can listen to him explain that he’s only stealing from you because he likes your brand of TV and HiFi but can’t pay for it himself. You can listen as the thief ransacks your place and tells you how hard his life is that he can’t afford the luxuries he’s stealing from you and that he’d like you to petition to have thoses same good made cheaper because that’d be really nice. Oh, and could you hold the front door open as he hauls out your TV stand? It’s a bit heavy.

    Poor ickle thieves. Life is so hard when you’re a victim.

    #129 5 years ago
  130. Seraphemz

    But its not like he is going into a store and holding up a gun to the local game store clerk and taking it..

    Hes getting a copy that is out there, that people are “sharing” with others. Its it illegal. Yeah. But is it armed robbery…no.

    #130 5 years ago
  131. theevilaires

    Shatner you are really breaking my heart and for the record I have never pirated a video game

    #131 5 years ago
  132. Mike

    I wonder how value is dictated? Anyone with an ounce of knowledge about microeconomics would know that things are worth the price that people are willing to pay for them. So people, the masses, the majority, constantly dictate price.

    #132 5 years ago
  133. Gekidami

    Morriss already putting his Masters degree to work there :p

    #133 5 years ago
  134. theevilaires

    So Game Stop Pirates games? If devs don’t see money back from the used gaming market then its ok for Big Corporations like Game Stop to sell copies of the devs games over and over again while making tremendous profits. No thats not piracy thats just a big fuck you devs.

    If devs want to stop online priracy why don’t they let you buy their games to order from their website at a much cheaper price. I’m sure that could reduce priracy by 5 to 10%

    I thought you were the peoples champ Shatner, you’re more like the corporate hound dog :-(

    #134 5 years ago
  135. Gekidami

    Thats why alot of devs what to see the second hand trade die.

    #135 5 years ago
  136. Shatner

    Bless you Mike. I see your diversion but here’s the underlying logic as it works in the civilised world:

    If you’re not prepared to pay the asking price then you’re not entitled to the goods.

    It is that simple.

    Now, you can fluff around and pretend to be a victim, argue that games are the same as chocolate, bring ambiguities such as ‘value’ in to cloud the very simple concept that children can grasp but pirates and their supporters can’t:

    If you don’t think it’s worth the asking price then don’t pay it.

    If you don’t pay the asking price you are not entitled to the product.

    If you are not prepared to pay the asking price that doesn’t mean you can break the law and steal it.

    However hard DaMan and however many fluffy distractions Mike will enjoy throwing into the mix without ever following up (because Mike isn’t actually willing to participate in the conversation as much as he is to disrupt it) doesn’t change the underlying behaviour: whatever the asking price is and whatever the value is percieved – taking the goods without paying for them is stealing.

    And the consumer has NO RIGHTS to the product until AFTER they have acquired them legitimately. One person deciding to steal a luxury product is doing so for GREED. They’re not making some big noble statement about the state of capitalism.

    They’re simply a selfish fucker that likes to get their fun for free but dislikes being called a thief and will wriggle around trying to excuse their law-breaking and greedy actions to make themselves feel better. And, through their greed they help raise prices for everyone else.

    By all means don’t pay the price. But then don’t act like you should still have the product.

    People’s sense of entitlement is quite out of proportion. Pirate are even more out of touch.

    The simple litmus test is: are you happy to have your stuff stolen? If not then why should it be okay to steal from others?

    And if you’re not paying for it then you are stealing it.

    #136 5 years ago
  137. DaMan

    what a twat! gawd, Shitner. and after all that you say Michael is the hitler of internet gen?

    you’re in no position to dictate what’s ‘luxury’ and what’s not, my man. people like playing games, and they shouldn’t learn to live without them just because they’re from a different country. in your pointless theory of out of the world morals, yes they’re ‘thieves’, but in reality the biggest part of a copy’s price doesn’t go to the devs anyway.

    I think we should end this btw.

    #137 5 years ago
  138. Seraphemz

    Caps make it true…

    #138 5 years ago
  139. Shatner

    I’m not ‘dictating’ what a luxury product is, I’m stating a fact.

    WATER is not a luxury product.

    VIDEOGAMES are luxury products
    MOVIES are luxury products
    MUSIC is a luxury product

    If you’re going to try a new angle of justifying you being a thief by suggesting you NEED videogames and have no choice but to steal them to meet such needs then you’re way, way, waaaaaaaay out of touch with some of the most basic parts of real life. Hell, even chocolate is a luxury product.

    And I don’t see why you need to bring the issue of what proportion of revenue goes to developers. YOUR NOT PAYING ANY MONEY so whatever they’re ENTITLED to for the work they have done, your actions are ensuring the DON’T get it.

    You just don’t get it. Every angle and diversion you take to justify your lawbreaking behaviour is going to fail.

    I advised you to end this quite some time back because I knew you’d present all the usual pirate excuses that I always see and that always fail. I said that in my earliest comment and you’ve proved me 100% correct.

    #139 5 years ago
  140. theevilaires

    ok ok everyone back off shatner we’ve beaten this stick with a dead horse

    #140 5 years ago
  141. Lutz

    TEA: I’ve pirated sweet FA in my life. Nothing.

    #141 5 years ago
  142. Seraphemz

    “ok ok everyone back off shatner we’ve beaten this stick with a dead horse” LMFAO !!!

    #142 5 years ago
  143. DaMan

    Shatner, I can’t bring myself to believe you’re older than 23.. just can’t. okay, so you’re just anal then, sorry.

    I do “get” everything.. it’s you who ‘s looking at this through some glasses.

    once again, I agree with that if a person can easily buy a copy like in US, otherwise if the person is NOT getting the game if he won’t pirate it – not pirating stuff because it’s just wrong “anyway” is ludicrous. and “not paying” any money? are you saying you’re just pissed by the fact that I will play your game for free, right? oh, so, that’s it! our morals is just about that..

    and besides, how about you just shut up, Shutner? eh? you said “o’conner is a hitler and always wants to make the latest comment” didn’t you? now how about just ending this, I don’t need your shitty high and mighty final word. you’ve made your point, I’ve made mine. end of.

    #143 5 years ago
  144. Seraphemz

    200 here we come !!!

    ( would that be a record? )

    #144 5 years ago
  145. Shatner

    DaMan, just like every single pirate, you fail to grasp the logic of:

    If you don’t pay for it you’re not entitled to it.

    All your responses, all your diversions, all your excuses – you’ve not once acknowledged that simple fact of modern life.

    Now you’re trying to distract with name-calling and irrelevant comments (inaccurate ones too, but hey, for someone who can’t grasp simple logic I can’t say I’m surprised – we’ll just add “liar” to your list of flaws).

    I’m not being a dictator. I’m branding someone who steals as being a thief – whilst he’s trying to suggest that stealing is ok and doesn’t make you a thief.

    I look forward to shooting down your next pathetic attempt at justifying your behaviour.

    #145 5 years ago
  146. DaMan

    okay, how’s this irrelevant:

    once again, I agree with that if a person can easily buy a copy like in US, otherwise if the person is NOT getting the game if he won’t pirate it – not pirating stuff because it’s just wrong “anyway” is ludicrous. and “not paying” any money? are you saying you’re just pissed by the fact that I will play your game for free, right? oh, so, that’s it! our morals is just about that..

    ?

    but, you see, still by your logic it is morally wrong to run from a jail even if you were sent there as a public enemy or something in the times of USSR and Stalin, because you were sent there by the law, isn’t it? please don’t dismiss this as irrelevant stuff, my man. because if it is, then your “breaking into someone’s house” is as well..

    and , “liar”? how? you did say exactly that, look it up on the board.

    #146 5 years ago
  147. Mike

    Of course, there’s literally no difference between you wallet getting stolen and downloading a copy of a game on the internet, none at all – they’re exactly the same thing.

    *sighs*

    #147 5 years ago
  148. DaMan

    and Shatner – I’m not “justifying my behaviour”, you simply turned my comment about the fact that piracy is driving PSP sales into this, like you did with many people before.

    disagree with what I’m saying? okay, don’t pirate games like those “thieves”. what’s the point of your internet justice?

    #148 5 years ago
  149. Seraphemz

    Half way there… keep it up guys !!

    I can hear Shatner typing away…

    #149 5 years ago
  150. theevilaires

    Seraphemz said: “ok ok everyone back off shatner we’ve beaten this stick with a dead horse” LMFAO !!!

    yea i was trying to inject some humor in here, glad it touched someone

    #150 5 years ago
  151. theevilaires

    Lutz said: TEA: I’ve pirated sweet FA in my life. Nothing.

    whats sweet FA?

    #151 5 years ago
  152. Seraphemz

    Evil – you touched me and id like for you to do it again….

    ( better ??? )

    #152 5 years ago
  153. theevilaires

    hold on there Seraphemz, people might get the wrong idea. Come on man edit your comment a little better :P

    #153 5 years ago
  154. dirigiblebill

    Good article here from Rob Fahey on the subject – probably a little out-dated now though.

    http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/pirate-station

    A couple of contrasting points, part-derived from the article:

    (1) Taking and duplicating somebody’s product and thus preventing them from making enough profit to live on is wrong, no matter how you style it. It’s ridiculous to suggest that retail mark-ups can be attributed purely to the greed of six-figure-salaried execs – hard-working Joes like you and me (well, you anyway) live off this stuff too. And the big publishers aren’t the only ones affected – how do we expect this industry to support independent developers with limited marketing penetration if online piracy deprives them of their earnings? EA and co may have enough brand presence at retail to keep afloat, but what happens to a company like Stardock, whose products are relatively unknown beyond the confines of the internet, if 5/6 of Demigod’s player base log onto its servers with pirated copies of the game?

    HOWEVER -

    (2) Piracy doesn’t necessarily equal point (1) – there isn’t much evidence (at the time of the GI article’s writing, and that I’m aware of today) to the effect that everybody who downloads a copy of a pirated game would infallibly have gone out and bought it otherwise. So Demigod might have attracted 18,000 legal users on day one regardless of pirate activity (though this may not be much consolation to Stardock, as the company still has to shoulder the cost of keeping all those pirate players online).

    Just my ten cents, as they say.

    #154 5 years ago
  155. Seraphemz

    “everybody who downloads a copy of a pirated game would infallibly have gone out and bought it otherwise”

    But I can see Shatners point that those people, whether they would have bought it or not, are not entitled to play it. They did steal it.

    Hey, i download movies, I know im doing something wrong. I just dont care that I am. :)

    #155 5 years ago
  156. theevilaires

    No matter what I always support indy devs who try. I highly praised Jonathan Mak creator of everyday shooter and bought it day one to support him. Now the Big Hollywood fucks, they can go fuck themselves. Those fat blubber neck pieces of shits can kiss my ass. They are also the ones who try and buy up peoples creations like J.M. and say its their own. I’m not talking about Sony in this case. I’m talking about those cigar smoking lazy fat fucks who “STEAL” everyday despite their multi million dollar accounts/assets and their gold digger wives from exotic locations from around the world in Hollywood.

    #156 5 years ago
  157. theevilaires

    Listen to me whether you want to believe it or not the people who are at the top in wealth have stolen. They are guilty of the same crimes that you and I have committed in our lives.

    The only difference now is they made “LAWS” to protect themselves so no one else can become wealthy like they have.
    Its a corrupt world we live in and if the person who got to the top by not playing fair gets to live the best life. Then I rather die trying to kick that mother fucker off that hill than sitting on my ass not enjoying life the best way i can.

    You only get one life and not to many other people give a shit about yours. They’re to busy trying to find their own short cuts.

    #157 5 years ago
  158. DaMan

    funny, but basically, you actually hit the nail on the head, theevil. it’s simple as that.

    #158 5 years ago
  159. dirigiblebill

    “But I can see Shatners point that those people, whether they would have bought it or not, are not entitled to play it. They did steal it.”

    I agree absolutely – but that’s purely a question of ethics, whereas I’m talking about whether piracy has a negative impact in practice. If it does, it’s contemptible both on this and the more abstract count that stealing is wrong regardless of circumstance.

    We’d better hope Stuart Campbell doesn’t find this thread – he makes a valid but pretty violent case that piracy and theft aren’t in fact synonymous as legally defined.

    #159 5 years ago
  160. Seraphemz

    I dont know if im going around in circles, but I do believe that Piracy has a negative impact. Sure it does.

    Why go and pay for something that you have already gotten free?

    If i wasnt able to, or didnt know how to download movies, then i would be forced to rent them or buy them, because the point is that I WANT to watch the movie. But i know how to do it for free, and I know that im taking money that should be going to either the rental or movie company.

    Piracy does have an impact, but i dont see any of those businesses going out of business because of it.

    #160 5 years ago
  161. theevilaires

    you will never stop piracy so please lets close this case.

    Sony if you want to stop piracy on the psp start listening to your consumers and not your investors. plain and simple.

    #161 5 years ago
  162. theevilaires

    I think we hit a new record guys :P Congrats!

    #162 5 years ago
  163. Seraphemz

    YES !! thats really what i was going for…

    #163 5 years ago
  164. dirigiblebill

    “Piracy does have an impact, but i dont see any of those businesses going out of business because of it.”

    This may possibly be a self-contradictory statement, for the reasons I gave above :) Until we have representative figures it’s impossible to be sure, but I think it’s fair to suggest that not everybody who pirates a game – or indeed any other product – would have purchased it anyway.

    Can you honestly say you’d have bought a copy of every single movie you’ve ever downloaded if pirated versions weren’t readily available? Ease of acquisition (direct to your desktop from the internet, rather than from the retail outlet down the street), flexibility of usage (you can put a pirated movie file onto any number of players, including portable ones, using simple conversion software) and the sheer thrill of getting something for free lend the product an attractiveness it might not otherwise possess.

    Another point: comments have been made in this thread about a “culture of entitlement” or something in that vein, whereby pirates think they have a right to free games. I think there’s some truth to this. The internet gives us a vast amount of material gratis, both items that are also available on the shelves and those exclusive to your browser, from films to music to software to books to articles to whatever. Doesn’t it seem only natural, given such riches, that basic moral principles will get a little warped?

    #164 5 years ago
  165. SticKboy

    ‘Spurious late night comment.’

    #165 5 years ago
  166. dirigiblebill

    You tell ‘em, sister.

    #166 5 years ago
  167. theevilaires

    Seraphemz said: Evil – you touched me and id like for you to do it again….

    ( better ??? )

    Hell no that isn’t better

    #167 5 years ago
  168. BC

    > “I think it’s fair to suggest that not everybody who pirates a game – or indeed any other product – would have purchased it anyway….”

    That’s true, but it doesn’t tell you very much about the impact piracy has on games. For example, if you’ve got 10,000 buyers, and 100,000 pirates, and only 10% of those pirates decided to pirate instead of buying the game, then piracy has halved your sales from 20,000 down to 10,000. That’s a pretty big hit – and it only requires that 10% of pirates “would’ve bought the game”.

    I have to wonder what percentage of each pirate’s downloads are “lost sales”. Even if a pirate truthfully says, “I wouldn’t have bought 90% of the stuff I download” can lead to this exact situation, because that 10% can add up to this situation: 100,000 pirates = 10,000 lost sales = halving of a company’s sales.

    > “there isn’t much evidence to the effect that everybody who downloads a copy of a pirated game would infallibly have gone out and bought it otherwise”

    For the reasons I listed here, that’s an irrelevant point.

    #168 5 years ago
  169. Shatner

    Mike, again, you’re just attempting to disrupt without actually contributing – it’s become another one of your transparent stunts.

    I won’t deny that there are different types of theft – but they’re still theft. What if I acquired your thesis and submitted it as my own work? That’s a much a theft as if I stole your wallet. Both are wrong. Neither are things I’m entitled to simply because I feel like it.

    Notice how, in all DaMan’s squirming and increasing levels of childishness, DaMan has absolutely refused to give a response to or even acknowledge:

    a) How tolerant he would be if things were stolen from him
    b) How not paying for something that isn’t free entitles you to steal it

    He’s concocted every other reason under the sun to try and legitimise his greed and lawbreaking but he won’t go near the most obvious and basic logic that irrefutably shows he’s a selfish thief.

    I don’t believe for one second that he’s got anything to do with games development. Just like his allusions to a tough life and living outside of the evil government ruled society – it’s all just pirate fiction to make their selfishness and greed in stealing LUXURY GOODS sound something other than plain and simple theft.

    If he’s smart he’ll take my advice from many posts back and stop posting excuses (or trying to distract by moving the topic away from his actions onto anything else) and just shut up.

    Like I said, I am pretty tolerant of piracy. Just as I am of DRM and retail prices. But these “victim” pirates who know precisely what they’re doing but make endless pathetic excuses as to why they feel they’re entitled to luxury goods without paying for them can go to hell.

    #169 5 years ago
  170. Mike

    “What if I acquired your thesis and submitted it as my own work? That’s a much a theft as if I stole your wallet. Both are wrong.”

    I don’t think it is, actually. One is a breach of copyright, the other is plain as day stealing.

    You need some more colours in your palette. :)

    #170 5 years ago
  171. Shatner

    Check your copyright and see what it says about unauthorised copying, lending, reproduction and resale. (I didn’t know your thesis was copyrighted. Creative Commons sounds more likely).

    Breach of copyright and theft aren’t as mutually exclusive as you’re so keen to imply, Mike.

    It’s all written down. Usually in black and white.

    Regardles, the status of “theft” on copyrighted luxury goods (such as videogames) is very simple and very clear. And has repeatedly been enforced by law.

    #171 5 years ago
  172. Mike

    It’s your arguments that are black and white.

    Steal my wallet. I’ll phone the police and tell them you did it. You see what action is taken.

    Now, I’ll upload my thesis on a web site. You download it and pass it off as yours. I’ll phone the police and tell them you did it. You see what action is taken.

    Not the same thing. Not even close.

    More grey is needed. Perhaps a hue of blue. Oh don’t worry, you’re just wrong. It’s ok. It happens to all of us. But 5,000 words of wrong is just more funny than a couple of hundred. That’s why we love you.

    #172 5 years ago
  173. Shatner

    If you pro-actively put something into the public domain then you are relinquishing your rights to control its distribution.

    You may have some say if you also had a Creative Commons licence and an agreed terms of usage. The kids on GameFaqs have grasped that point even if you haven’t.

    However, it’s the PIRATES that steal the copyrighted material and it is THEY who put it on the internet, NOT the games publishers.

    So your comparison is totally inappropriate at the most fundamental level.

    Perhaps if you spent less time trying to be contrary for the sake of it (see all your other contributions to this discussion so far) and more time understanding your topic your guesswork wouldn’t be so apparent.

    Laws have been made on this topic. Specifically covering copyrighted media. They prove that your assumptions are wrong and that DaMan is a thief.

    Smugness and posturing are all very good Mike. I find the tend to work best when you’re in the right about something though. ;)

    #173 5 years ago
  174. Mike

    Right, well just substitute that and say you got hold of my thesis. I still don’t think you’d get a visit from the police in the same manner as if you nicked my wallet. Hence, no matter how hard you wriggle and squirm, you’re wrong. They’re not the same thing. If you’ve lived a day in your life you’d know.

    #174 5 years ago
  175. Mike

    “If you pro-actively put something into the public domain then you are relinquishing your rights to control its distribution.”

    That’s also utter bollocks btw, mate. Please stop digging. You’re becoming embarrassing now.

    #175 5 years ago
  176. Shatner

    Is your thesis covered by any laws in the same way that videogames are?

    COULD THAT BE why their theft may get treated differently by a law enforcement agency?

    CRAZY!

    Apples /= oranges

    Oh, and I really wouldn’t bring up the “If I published my thesis on the internet..” point. It’s the precise area where you tripped up. Better to move on to something else instead.

    #176 5 years ago
  177. Mike

    You don’t know what you’re talking about.

    Just stop now.

    #177 5 years ago
  178. Shatner

    Actually, I do.

    But, by all means, please continue your charade of bluff.

    Just like you do when you like to suggest you know things about people that you don’t.

    It’s a pretty tangled web you weave, Mike.

    #178 5 years ago
  179. Lutz

    No Shatner, you really don’t.

    #179 5 years ago
  180. Mike

    hehe

    Funny isn’t it.

    #180 5 years ago
  181. Lutz

    Mike: I’d say tragic personally.

    I’d argue back, but it’d be like arguing with the village idiot. He’d only drag me down to his level and then beat me with experience.

    #181 5 years ago
  182. Patrick Garratt

    I’m going to frame this thread. It’s a pinnacle.

    #182 5 years ago
  183. Mike

    “The day the internet died.”

    #183 5 years ago
  184. Shatner

    Tee hee.

    Now we’re going to go down the road of “I don’t agree with him and my ‘arguments’ about oranges don’t work with his ones about ‘apples’ so now I’ll just play the game of character assassination in a puerile manner to make myself feel superior and move away from my embarassing contributions”

    Yeah Mike, I’ve seen that stunt of yours before too.

    Haven’t you learned any new tricks?

    If you’re incapable of debating the same topic then don’t try and disguise your failures as triumphs.

    I’m more than happy to continue this ‘debate’ but you’ve clearly given up with a petulant “you don’t know what you’re talking about” brush off. It’s an empty statement, of course, but it serves your purposes. It gives you a tidy way of backpeddling without making too obvious that you’re backpeddling.

    Come on Mike. Please show me more examples of things not governed by law prove that my examples of things governed by law are exactly the same AND wrong!

    Or you can just carry on your school-yard tactics for everyone to see what a child you are.

    Your choice!

    #184 5 years ago
  185. Lutz

    Actually, it’s showing a bug. As I type this out, there’s 182 responses, and Pats reponse is the last one, labelled “82″.

    It’s dropped the 1.

    #185 5 years ago
  186. Shatner

    Lutz, you need to stop stealing lines from other people and passing them off as your own work.

    Bad form old chap.

    #186 5 years ago
  187. Psychotext

    I really don’t want to get involved… but this whole software piracy is “theft” thing is annoying me.

    By definition (legal) theft is “dishonestly appropriating property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it”

    Software piracy is copyright infringement. “the unauthorized or unlicensed copying of a work subject to copyright”

    #187 5 years ago
  188. Mike

    I haven’t entered into a debate Shatner. Nor am I about to. I’ve simply told you, that you don’t know what you’re talking about. That isn’t up for debate.

    #188 5 years ago
  189. Lutz

    Why do I? Will the police come and arrest me?

    What if, somewhere, someone has written that sentence before me? Am I stealing that line too?

    oh noes.

    Seriously Shatner, stop giving a shit about what other people think.

    #189 5 years ago
  190. Mike

    :D

    #190 5 years ago
  191. Lutz

    Mike, I’ve used that smiley before. You’re stealing my lines. Bad form.

    #191 5 years ago
  192. Shatner

    PT: so why have there been multiple cases of copyright infringement punishable by law? Why does copyright infringement take revenue from people who have earned it?

    Mike, your word is not law. You’re wrong about many many things. Espeically the things you say about specific people that you don’t know.

    You keep making the same errors of logic Mike: passing your guesswork off as fact and using posturing to drive the point home.

    Bluff doesn’t turn your guesswork into fact.
    Posturing doesn’t make your failures triumphs.
    Writing about games doesn’t mean you know anything about their production.

    Stop living in denial.

    Oh, and DaMan is a thief and his actions are punishable by law. He is redistributing copyrighted material which he has no authority or permission to do. His actions are, in my opinion, more severe than 4 guys in sweden. And they got sent to jail for a year.

    Don’t worry DaMan, Mike’ll bake you a cake with a file in it.

    #192 5 years ago
  193. Mike

    Lutz: That’s just as bad as you stealing my wallet. Theft is theft and you’re a thief.

    So there.

    “Bluff doesn’t turn your guesswork into fact.
    Posturing doesn’t make your failures triumphs.”

    Someone just let Alannis Morrisette in here, it seems.

    #193 5 years ago
  194. Shatner

    “Seriously Shatner, stop giving a shit about what other people think.”

    Yes. Good job nobody else replies to any comments! Just one person!

    I love insularity. It’s funny.

    Has anyone else noticed how Mike is shit-poor at debating but really comes into his own when it comes to acting like a petulant 12 year old that thinks they’re a lot smarter and funnier than they actually are?

    He has no view to offer, he just likes to disrupt and shoot down the views of others.

    Your games are so obvious Mike. Why don’t you scamper off and create a sensationalist news headline for the sheer hell of it. There’s a good chap.

    And, PT shows that there’s a difference between making nothing but reactionary mocking posts like a child and providing an adult response to a comment.

    What a shame that those that lead this site encourage and conduct more of the former than the latter. Why piss in your own pool? Even the nonces at Kotaku know better than that!

    #194 5 years ago
  195. Lutz

    Have: 10,000 spoons
    Need: A knife

    #195 5 years ago
  196. Psychotext

    Shatner: Because copyright infringement is illegal… just as theft is. Both are punishable by law, but both are different things. Copyright infringement law specifically covers the loss of potential revenue by the holder of a copyright.

    Association with theft is the Hollywood angle “You wouldn’t steal a car”… and it’s not accurate.

    #196 5 years ago
  197. Mike

    Come on Shatner, what’s it going to take? You’re wrong. Stop trying.

    #197 5 years ago
  198. Lutz

    Let’s try and put this as easily as I can…

    The theft of a wallet would be the same as piracy IF you made an identical copy of the wallet and the money inside, and left the original wallet and contents with the owner.

    And, although this doesn’t work in all situations, just this one due to physical money being involved, in this situation you’d actually be creating wealth. Thus theft = piracy = more money = a good thing.

    If you’ve got a magical device for cloning wallets of course.

    But you don’t have such a device. So although both pirates and theives are gaining something “for free” they are both committing seperate crimes are treated quite differently.

    #198 5 years ago
  199. Mike

    “So although both pirates and thieves are gaining something “for free” they are both committing separate crimes are treated quite differently.”

    And rightly so. Because, you know, they’re not the same thing. No amount of words on a website will change it.

    #199 5 years ago
  200. G1GAHURTZ

    C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER!!!!!

    #200 5 years ago
  201. Shatner

    Mike, you saying something doesn’t make it so.

    Especially when you say it about a person.

    Especially when you don’t know that person.

    Especially when you’ve been wrong about that person so many times before that it would be embarassing if it weren’t so hilarious.

    But, hey, Mike’s in the games media so the moment he commits words to screen they are FACT! He just has to utter a made-up game name and it EXISTS!

    Sorry Mike. Your history of fail eclipses your theatrics at trying to sound knowledgable.

    Try a different game.

    PS: DaMan and all software pirates are theives.

    (Just thought that needed stating again before the children in the vicinity try to obfuscate the issue further!)

    #201 5 years ago
  202. Spiral

    Is Shatner still pretending he understands copyright law? But he never claims to be an authority about things he doesn’t know, it’s what makes him better than everyone else!

    #202 5 years ago
  203. G1GAHURTZ

    What is a pirate’s favourite type of music?

    Arr and B!

    #203 5 years ago
  204. Shatner

    Spiral, I’m better than a thief or those that support the actions of thieves.

    But, please, add your voice to those that aren’t contributing any view of thier own but prefer to attack the views of others.

    So far, everything I’ve claimed in my earliest comments have been proved 100% correct. It seems odd that everyone is always so keen to prove me right.

    I guess they can’t help themselves. I predict the next bunch of comments will continue this trend.

    I guess pathetic internet grudges and silly personal vendettas cloud a lot of (supposedly) intelligent people’s thinking.

    OK boys, off you go. Prove me right a bit more. You won’t be able to help yourself. :D

    #204 5 years ago
  205. Patrick Garratt

    This thread has made me laugh out loud about 20 times now. I was following it in the EA sessions yesterday on my Blackberry. Internet gold.

    #205 5 years ago
  206. G1GAHURTZ

    Why was the pirate’s butt so big?

    He kept stealing everyone’s booty!

    #206 5 years ago
  207. Lutz

    Shatner, how old are you?

    #207 5 years ago
  208. Shatner

    Ask Mike. He knows EVERYTHING about me. In fact, he knows more about me than I do! If he says something about me then it’s GOT to be true, even if it isn’t!

    #208 5 years ago
  209. Lutz

    Shatner, you do know that the serious people here (Blerk, Mike, Pat etc etc) don’t actually condone piracy don’t you?

    #209 5 years ago
  210. deanimate

    so if a squirrel ran into a shop and took a game without paying for it, would that be theft?

    i fear not due to the cute tail, but who can ever really say?

    #210 5 years ago
  211. Shatner

    Lutz, I’m the serious one around here. I got an award for it.

    Ask Mike!

    #211 5 years ago
  212. Gekidami

    Pat appears to condone piracy going off his last report on Demigod.

    #212 5 years ago
  213. Lutz

    Yes deanimate, that would be theft.
    If you ran in, copied the game from a file on the PC via a USB stick, and then legged it, that would be copyright infringment.

    #213 5 years ago
  214. G1GAHURTZ

    Yeah, but have you ever seen a squirrels claws?

    Frightening!

    #214 5 years ago
  215. Lutz

    I meant normal serious Shatner. Not “internet is serious business” serious.

    #215 5 years ago
  216. Lutz

    OK, easy one here.

    If you make a drawing of the Mona Lisa, identical in every conceivable way to the original, and then hang it on your mantlepiece, have you commited an act of theft against the owner of the Mona Lisa? (A gallery in Paris I believe)

    #216 5 years ago
  217. G1GAHURTZ

    If the owners of the gallery in Paris were expecting revenue from visitors coming to see works of art that included the Mona Lisa, then you would be damaging their business if you let people come into your house and take enjoyment from it.

    #217 5 years ago
  218. Shatner

    Sorry Lutz, I can’t answer any of your questions. Your best bet is to ask Mike about me. He knows everything. And once he writes it down it instantly becomes irrefutable fact. I wouldn’t dream of thinking I could answer a question about myself with greater accuracy than Mike could.

    And your example in #216 is another apples/oranges thing. It would be more appropriate if you compared re-created a piece of art by hand as recreating a piece of software by hand (re-writing the code, re-creating the assets etc). And if you’re re-using assets then, well, you might want to speak to those Limbo of the Lost chaps.

    #218 5 years ago
  219. Lutz

    But you don’t recreate art by hand, you do it using tools. Just like pirates do with software.

    #219 5 years ago
  220. phatb0y

    Lutz – Technically, yes.

    If you were to just hang it up on your mantlepiece you’d be fine. If you started charging people to come and see it you’d be in trouble.

    IANAL, but work in law, and this has come up a few times during randombreakfastbollocksshoptalk.

    So yeah, technically theft, but theft that nobody really gives a fuck about. Especially Da Vinci.

    #220 5 years ago
  221. Spiral

    Saying that you don’t know what you’re talking about does contribute Shatner, if only to help prevent a few more people going away with a misunderstanding of the issue created by the nonsense you’re spouting. Even your first sentence in the reply shows you still don’t get it. Given your ongoing campaign against games journalism for spreading misinformation I’d have thought you’d appreciate the irony.

    #221 5 years ago
  222. Lutz

    Exactly Giga. If I started charing people to see my Mona Lisa, I’d be robbing the gallery of potential income, but I haven’t actually taken anything from them physically.

    If I drew “Mona Lisa 2: The Sequel with eyebrows” and stole their audience, they couldn’t do anything. But as I’ve stolen their audience with a copy of their work, I can get sued for copyright infringment. But I can’t get sued for theft, as I’ve not stolen anything.

    #222 5 years ago
  223. dirigiblebill

    “This thread has made me laugh out loud about 20 times now. I was following it in the EA sessions yesterday on my Blackberry. Internet gold.”

    You’re here to entertain us, bitch, not the other way round. Go rotate some bloody images or dig up some E3 2005 headlines or something ;)

    I’m going to upgrade this thread from “storm in a teacup” to “hurricane in a pint glass”.

    #223 5 years ago
  224. Lutz

    phatb0y: NO! NOT THEFT! I’ve stolen nothing! I’ve infringed on their copyright! SEPERATE ISSUE!

    If I charged people to see “the mona lisa” I can be sued. If I charge people to see “A damned good replica of the mona lisa” I can’t be.

    I’ve done the same thing, I’ve stolen NOTHING. In the first I’ve infringed copyright, in the second I haven’t!

    #224 5 years ago
  225. Shatner

    Lutz, if you want to add further techinicalities then you’re only going to highlight disparities between items you’re comparing which, I fear, won’t help your example. Perhaps you should have been clearer in your original post.

    You said “drawing” which implies “by hand”. If not then, sure, let’s replace my “recreate software by hand” with “recreate software by copying and pasting”. It still comes out the same.

    Doing this would allow both sides of the equation aren’t remotely accurate to real life but they will remain evenly matched in terms of the hypothetical process of reproduction. You’re still comparing apples to oranges though.

    Spiral, if my views are such nonsense then why are there so many examples of the laws which govern the civilised world coinciding with them? How come I can refer to an entire history of cause and effect of law-breaking and punishment (not to mention simple morals – not that gamers ever give a shit about morals unless they think they’re the ones that might suffer) and the best you can do is express your opinion as fact with nothing but your personal view to support it? You’re like Mike. You think saying something makes it so. It doesn’t. Particularly when there is so much evidence to support my view.

    Also, I’ve repeatedly stated my views on piracy in this topic. But you cute little reactionaries seem to have overlooked them because it’s more fun to be blindly contrary than to pay proper attention to something. :)

    #225 5 years ago
  226. Psychotext

    There’s a simple solution to this. Find an instance of software piracy that was prosecuted under the Theft Act (1968) or the Amended Theft Act (1996) rather than the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act (1988) – specifically the Copyright (Computer Programs) Regulations (1992).

    I don’t think you will though. If you do I’ll happily cede that software piracy is in fact theft rather than copyright infringement.

    #226 5 years ago
  227. dirigiblebill

    In summary then:

    (1) Theft is wrong.

    (2) Copying somebody’s work and announcing it as your own/selling it whilst leaving them in full possession of the original isn’t theft, but may qualify as copyright infringement. (Help me out here, lawyer person in thread.)

    (3) Copyright infringement is wrong.

    (4) Copyright infringement which prevents the creator from making a living is really, really wrong.

    (5) Videogame piracy doesn’t equal (1), legally speaking, and there isn’t conclusive evidence that it equals points (3) and (4), though as BC noted a while ago it’s hard to see how it wouldn’t, at least some of the time.

    (6) It’s a beautiful day outside.

    (7) Fuck you guys and fuck this job – I’m off for a cold one on Hampstead Heath.

    #227 5 years ago
  228. Spiral

    To further complicate matters the Mona Lisa is a bad example because there’s no copyright on it. If the Louvre started showing a copy of Mona Lisa 2 they’d be infringing on Lutz’s copyright however.

    #228 5 years ago
  229. Lutz

    Shatner: You don’t draw with your hand you dim wit, you draw with a pencil. Or paintbrush. Or a mouse and art software package.

    I duplicated the Mona Lisa using tools and skill.
    I can copy a game using tools and skill.

    It doesn’t matter if I copy the game using copy and paste, or by painstakingly progamming the thing from the ground up, even drawing everything, doing all the sounds etc.

    #229 5 years ago
  230. Lutz

    Spiral: Yes, Mona Lisa wasn’t a great example, but drawing was the analogy I was trying to get across.

    #230 5 years ago
  231. Psychotext

    For the record… I hate software pirates. I hate them even more than the companies who have decided to try and turn copyright infringment into theft in the public conciousness. But it’s a close one.

    :D

    #231 5 years ago
  232. Lutz

    I’m with PT on this.
    And I wish I was off to the pub with dirigiblebill!

    #232 5 years ago
  233. Shatner

    No Lutz,

    you RECREATED the Mona Lisa
    you DUPLICATED the software

    If you’d used a (fictional) perfect photocopier to reproduce the Mona Lisa then your processes would match.

    I already gave you the advantage of simply copying and pasting to aid your RECREATION of the software but, clearly, that’s not good enough for you.

    This is the problem you get when you try to take apples and oranges and combine them with a complete lack of understanding of what fruit is and present that as an argument.

    Perhaps, instead of rushing to call me a dimwit, you might get a better grasp of your own wonky examples.

    #233 5 years ago
  234. SticKboy

    Lutz, your comment about the duplicate wallet thing is plain crazy. If the person’s livelihood was based around the manufacturing, sale and distribution of money-stuffed wallets, then it would be more comparable to software piracy, but it still wouldn’t be perfect.

    At the end of the day, all these analogies are pointless. Piracy hurts *real people*. Like Shatner, I have a tolerant view towards piracy, but I do understand that it is wrong and morally unjustifiable. I do think that people think that just becuase they *can* get stuff for free without paying a consequence, they feel like they have a *right* to do so. Which is just opportunistic bullshit!

    Call it theft, call it piracy, call it oojamaflippery, you’re still ultimately hurting hard working people, many of whom have families. If you want to talk about entitlement, aren’t *they* entitled to be recompensed for an honest days work by those who then enjoy the fruits of their labour?

    Oh and for the record, Pat would and has never defended piracy, Gek. Anybody making a living in or around the software industry understand just how damaging it is.

    #234 5 years ago
  235. G1GAHURTZ

    What does a pirate say when he has a heart attack?

    Arrr! Me heartie!

    #235 5 years ago
  236. Psychotext

    :D

    #236 5 years ago
  237. Lutz

    Shatner: See my last comment: “It doesn’t matter if I copy the game using copy and paste, or by painstakingly progamming the thing from the ground up, even drawing everything, doing all the sounds etc.”

    So recreated or duplicated, it doesn’t matter, it’s still copyright infringement in both cases, and it’s still not theft. Well done on missing the point.

    And stickboy seems to have completely missed the point too.

    See? I’ve been dragged down to their level. I’m gonna lose now.

    #237 5 years ago
  238. Spiral

    Agreed with PT. If you like something but you don’t support the creators the good stuff will die out and all we’ll have left is shite.

    #238 5 years ago
  239. SticKboy

    My point is this – I don’t give a shit what you call it, I just don’t like to see people defending the practice as being “okay”.

    Or, in some cases, as “sticking it to the man”. That *really* sticks in my craw. These *are* luxuries, after all.

    But, for the record, I don’t think piracy exactly equates to theft. That’s why we have two separate words for them. Ultimately, I think theft is the worse of the two as it involves physically depriving the original owner of the item you stole; however in the modern world it amounts to the same thing – illegal loss of livelihood.

    #239 5 years ago
  240. Lutz

    Stickboy: Who is defending piracy here?

    #240 5 years ago
  241. Shatner

    Well, Lutz, actually it’s not the same.

    In your example (that YOU gave) you compared recreating a piece or art (that holds no copyright) with duplicating a piece of software (that holds copyright).

    “it’s still copyright infringement in both cases”

    It’s not. One of your examples doesn’t hold copyright (the one that actually exists in the real world) and the fictional one, presumably, does.

    Given the context of your example those are some pretty important differences to overlook.

    Your comments are self-defeating. I think you’re demonstrating a very poor grasp of your own argument.

    I guess using logic and common sense is unfair, right? I’m just bringing you down to my level!

    #241 5 years ago
  242. SticKboy

    @ Lutz: Well, a few people from earlier. TEA and DaMan both share a world view in which they cast themselves as fighting tooth and nail against the evil of global capitalism… through the use of piracy. I just can’t get behind that point of view.

    If you want to stick it to the man, do something creative, that’s my philosophy. Engage, don’t disengage. Embrace rather than reject. Positive mental attitude and all that, and to my mind piracy is ultimately negative, despite the thrills it brings.

    #242 5 years ago
  243. dirigiblebill

    If this thread breaks 300 I will convert to Catholicism.

    Bring it.

    #243 5 years ago
  244. Shatner

    If it breaks 300 then G1GA will probably start making “This is Sparta!” puns.

    #244 5 years ago
  245. Lutz

    *sigh* yes Shatner, I thought that the Mona Lisa would be covered by copyright law, my mistake.

    OK, so that you can get your head around this due to being incapable of making that little jump, replace the mona lisa, with the Mona Lisa 2, which has now been copyrighted by the Louve.

    Repeat arguement.

    Also, answer PT about a software piracy case bing prosecuted under the Theft acts.

    #245 5 years ago
  246. Lutz

    Stickboy: Your Z key is broken. And TEA and DaMan are both idiots, everyone knows that. Ignore them. :)

    #246 5 years ago
  247. Retroid

    Has anything worthwhile been said on this thread yet, or is it just a slanging match over copyright definition and someone else saying “I pirate all my games, me, it doesn’t hurt anyone!”

    :/

    For the record I don’t have any pirated PSP games, and those I have on my memory card have been ripped myself from my own UMD. I’m too much of a collector not to have the game box sitting on my shelf it’s it’s possible to – although I’ll understand if Sony want to go digital-only, on the condition that they produce a PSP emulator on the PS3 so if I buy any games on my PSN account I can play them on either :)

    #247 5 years ago
  248. Psychotext

    “Has anything worthwhile been said on this thread yet”

    If you take all the words posted and re-arrange them you might be able to get something out of it.

    #248 5 years ago
  249. Patrick Garratt

    Good grief.

    #249 5 years ago
  250. G1GAHURTZ

    Personally, I think my c-c-c-combo breaker comment was the best.

    #250 5 years ago
  251. DaMan

    ahaha, so that’s how you spend your days, Shatner? you must have a lot of modelling/coding (whichever you are?) ?

    Notice how, in all DaMan’s squirming and increasing levels of childishness, DaMan has absolutely refused to give a response to or even acknowledge:

    a) How tolerant he would be if things were stolen from him
    b) How not paying for something that isn’t free entitles you to steal it”

    shitner, I’ve given a response to those two like 100 comments back. like I said, I’ve seen stuff that I’ve coded being shared, by your logic it was stolen from me. and like I said, my view on those **areas where guys wouldn’t buy it otherwise** remained the same.


    He’s concocted every other reason under the sun to try and legitimise his greed and lawbreaking but he won’t go near the most obvious and basic logic that irrefutably shows he’s a selfish thief.

    I don’t believe for one second that he’s got anything to do with games development. Just like his allusions to a tough life and living outside of the evil government ruled society – it’s all just pirate fiction to make their selfishness and greed in stealing LUXURY GOODS sound something other than plain and simple theft.

    If he’s smart he’ll take my advice from many posts back and stop posting excuses (or trying to distract by moving the topic away from his actions onto anything else) and just shut up.”

    amusing indeed.. the guy is pissed because someone said he’s a game dev and still isn’t so anal about piracy. sorry, shitner, there’re different people in the world. how about you shut your stinking mouth yourself?

    and btw – this isn’t my first tongue. I’m not going to spend an hour to make a perfectly thought out comment with a grade A english. I don’t know half as much english words as you do, Shitner.

    #251 5 years ago
  252. Shatner

    Erm yeah,

    You’re still showing that you really should have taken my advice and stopped making excuses about 150 posts ago.

    I’d offer you a shovel but you’re clearly very good at digging your own holes without it.

    #252 5 years ago
  253. DaMan

    Shitner, you’re odd.. I didn’t say half of the stuff you ‘ve said I did.

    like I said, I just find it ludicrous to compare say, India and US. an american is actually being an asshole when he pirates stuff, but those guys wouldn’r otherwise buy it anyway, so who cares?

    you’re just being anal.

    #253 5 years ago
  254. dirigiblebill

    DaMan – if your copying games is actually preventing some poor sod in a cubicle somewhere from making a living and thus preventing him or her from making more games, how do you justify it, other than by not giving a shit?

    #254 5 years ago
  255. Shatner

    Geography makes no difference to your actions DaMan. Your excuses for your actions simply don’t work. And they never will.

    You’re happy to steal from others. The only time you seem bothered is when you’re called a thief. You clearly have no sense of reality (your lack of perspective on the industry in which you claim to work is, frankly, laughable) and don’t care about anything other than yourself.

    Amusingly, I don’t have to make up childish variations of your screen name like you do. One name fits you perfectly.

    #255 5 years ago
  256. DaMan

    dirigiblebill – how does it prevent some poor sob from making a living if the indians wouldn’t buy it otherwise? if they would, yes that does, and there’s no way I (or anyone) can justify it.

    that’s my whole point. Shitner just overreacted from the start.

    Shitner’s point is that pirating is wrong anyway. he’s concerned about morals more than about reality.

    #256 5 years ago
  257. Lutz

    “You clearly have no sense of reality”

    HALP! My ironometer just exploded in a shower of spoons, knives and chardonay. I’ve lost my left ear to a particularly viscious teaspoon handle.

    /off to A&E

    #257 5 years ago
  258. Shatner

    Piracy has a very REAL effect on people that produce the software the people like you steal. It also has a very REAL effect on the honest people that pay for their software because the actions of thieves like you ensure retail prices are set at a level that covers the costs of software theft.

    But, hey, let’s just ignore any parts of reality that don’t make your personal greed look like something other than what it is.

    Your excuses for your actions won’t ever work DaMan. Your actions have consequences – you’re just happy to let everyone else pay for your crimes.

    #258 5 years ago
  259. DaMan

    the only way that can make an impact is if those guys seed the torrent, or share it with someone who could’ve bought the game.

    #259 5 years ago
  260. Shatner

    Lutz, given your wildly flawed “Software VS Mona Lisa” efforts I really don’t think you’re in any position to comment on anyone else’s grasp of the situation.

    But, yeah. Don’t make a point. Just attack someone elses! Way to go there!

    DaMan, the impact is widespread. You don’t speak for the entire industry. You can barely speak for yourself. You change your tune to whatever excuse you think is going get you out of whichever hole you’ve placed yourself into.

    Believe it or not, scumbags like you were pirating software BEFORE torrents existed and the industry and consumers were paying the price for it back then too.

    Better try another excuse, eh DaMan?

    #260 5 years ago
  261. Lutz

    Why bother making a point to you Shatner? You just ignore the ones you can’t answer.

    #261 5 years ago
  262. dirigiblebill

    What we need here, as I pointed out last night, is concrete figures showing what level of impact piracy actually has on developer and publisher profits. Any links? Because I haven’t encountered many…

    #262 5 years ago
  263. Shatner

    Lutz, when your point is completely flawed and broken in multiple places then it’s not pointing out much other than your inability to make a coherent point.

    There’s no value in arguing over a scenario that is totally flawed (even hypothetically). It’s not that you made such a perfectly reasoned, infallible observation that it dumbfounded everyone. It’s that it was a waste of time treating your effort seriously.

    No need to sulk about it and try to blame others for your lack of ability. Or are you going to do the “going down to their level” line again?

    Maybe that’s why you quote lines written by other people. You own material isn’t very good is it?

    #263 5 years ago
  264. DaMan

    btw, where did this come from:

    ” TEA and DaMan both share a world view in which they cast themselves as fighting tooth and nail against the evil of global capitalism… through the use of piracy. I just can’t get behind that point of view. ”

    hahaha. priceless, you know I couldn’t care less if you think all that. nice assumptions.

    #264 5 years ago
  265. DaMan

    ” DaMan, the impact is widespread. You don’t speak for the entire industry. You can barely speak for yourself. You change your tune to whatever excuse you think is going get you out of whichever hole you’ve placed yourself into.

    Believe it or not, scumbags like you were pirating software BEFORE torrents existed and the industry and consumers were paying the price for it back then too.

    Better try another excuse, eh DaMan? ”
    okay, Shitner. but you still didn’t say how does it harm the devs?

    so how is it that when someone who’s not going to buy it otherwise is the same as someone who has an actual choice?

    #265 5 years ago
  266. Lutz

    dirgiblebill; The figures are almost certainly impossible to produce TBH. I think it’s safe to say that piracy *does* harm developer/publisher profits, but by how much… well, it’s damned hard to prove either way.

    If you have an average UK gamer who pirates a game, then you could say that that is a lost sale, as the average UK gamer can afford a game. Take your average bloke in china or similar. They can’t.

    So both people have pirated, wrongly, but in reality, only 1 has realistically damaged the developers profits.

    If the game was affordable in China (at chinese rates) then you’ve now got 2 lost sales.

    You also have to look at why people pirate. People who pirate cos they’re tight arses are costing developers money left, right and centre. But what about the people who pirate stuff that isn’t available in their country? If there’s a game only available in the Japanese market, and I download a torrent of it, I’ve not lost the developer a single penny, as I was never a potential sale. Although yes of course, I have pirated.

    #266 5 years ago
  267. Lutz

    Shatner is reminding me of BGiE from about 5 years ago. How cute. :)

    #267 5 years ago
  268. Shatner

    DB, you’ll never get them. You can show something that has sold but you can never prove something that hasn’t happened as a result of something else. This is what the software pirates depend on – lack of information that shows the extent of their actions. Like others, they will never accept accountability for what they do and just hope to dismiss its effects with a lot of hot air and endless excuses. DaMan has given us a brilliant demonstration of this so far.

    And, unlike NPD and ChartTrack, software pirates don’t give figures as to how many copies of a piece of software were illegally distributed. If they did then their protestations that they’re doing nobody any harm would be (even) harder for them to convey.

    DaMan: if you’re not going to buy it then you’re not entitled to it. And you’re certainly not entitled to give it to your mates like “sharing a piece of chocolate”.

    If you’re not going to buy it then you don’t get to have it.

    The entire civilised world understands that concept from the moment they start getting pocket money. You and other software pirates don’t seem to be able to grasp that concept. You’re just taking one crime and committing another crime on top.

    And you can NEVER prove you weren’t going to buy it. That’s just the oldest excuse in the pirate handbook.

    #268 5 years ago
  269. Lutz

    You’re right Shatner, my example wasn’t perfect. It was a quick spur of the moment thought. I don’t care enough to put that much effort into trying to talk to you. Hey ho.

    But FWIW, it wasn’t my points I was refering too, it was PT’s.

    #269 5 years ago
  270. DaMan

    ahahaha.

    Shitner, I’ll be honest – I’ve never witnessed such a person on the internet, you spoiled any future fun for me, my man.

    #270 5 years ago
  271. SticKboy

    @ DaMan – please refer to comments 156, 157 and 158.

    Also, if you can’t afford a luxury, why should you be entitled to enjoy it? Just because you can? Don’t people deserve to get compensated for their hard work? Just because you can do something, doesn’t mean that you should – and if you do, you ought to at least have the authenticity to admit what you did was unfair.

    #271 5 years ago
  272. Shatner

    “you spoiled any future fun for me, my man”

    I’m glad, DaMan.

    You’ve had more free entertainment than you’ve been entitled to anyway.

    Lutz, your attempt at nonchalance isn’t very convincing. You made plenty of posts and assertions in your example. Now that it’s backfired you’re just going to pretend you were never that bothered in the first place? Heh. Suuuuure.

    People that go out of their way to reply directly to others just to say they’re not bothered about whatever it is they’re replying to aren’t very good liars. :)

    #272 5 years ago
  273. Lutz

    Was it free though?! Maybe he stole them cos he read the pixels off the screen and copied them into his HEAD.

    STOP! THIEF!

    #273 5 years ago
  274. DaMan

    SticKboy – yes, and the point is that no matter how childish and “silly” was what he’ve said, it’s actually true to an extent. you just have to read it properly, my friend.

    however, I still don’t see where I’ve said that by pirating stuff I combat the governmenet and our society?

    #274 5 years ago
  275. dirigiblebill

    “DB, you’ll never get them. You can show something that has sold but you can never prove something that hasn’t happened as a result of something else.”

    “The figures are almost certainly impossible to produce TBH.”

    Which is why this debate is a little redundant… :p Nobody can prove anything either way.

    I gave Stardock as an example yesterday – let me do some copy-pasta:

    Good article here from Rob Fahey on the subject – probably a little out-dated now though.

    http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/pirate-station

    A couple of contrasting points, part-derived from the article:

    (1) Taking and duplicating somebody’s product and thus preventing them from making enough profit to live on is wrong, no matter how you style it. It’s ridiculous to suggest that retail mark-ups can be attributed purely to the greed of six-figure-salaried execs – hard-working Joes like you and me (well, you anyway) live off this stuff too. And the big publishers aren’t the only ones affected – how do we expect this industry to support independent developers with limited marketing penetration if online piracy deprives them of their earnings? EA and co may have enough brand presence at retail to keep afloat, but what happens to a company like Stardock, whose products are relatively unknown beyond the confines of the internet, if 5/6 of Demigod’s player base log onto its servers with pirated copies of the game?

    HOWEVER -

    (2) Piracy doesn’t necessarily equal point (1) – there isn’t much evidence (at the time of the GI article’s writing, and that I’m aware of today) to the effect that everybody who downloads a copy of a pirated game would infallibly have gone out and bought it otherwise. So Demigod might have attracted 18,000 legal users on day one regardless of pirate activity (though this may not be much consolation to Stardock, as the company still has to shoulder the cost of keeping all those pirate players online).

    Just my ten cents, as they say.

    Do we think Stardock would have sold many, many more copies of Demigod if it hadn’t been for piracy?

    #275 5 years ago
  276. DaMan

    ” Also, if you can’t afford a luxury, why should you be entitled to enjoy it? Just because you can? Don’t people deserve to get compensated for their hard work? Just because you can do something, doesn’t mean that you should – and if you do, you ought to at least have the authenticity to admit what you did was unfair. ”

    of what use is it to me that someones acknowledges pirating the stuff I’ve made is “unfair”?

    yes, in theory it is unfair.

    #276 5 years ago
  277. SticKboy

    DaMan, comment 253 references a globalised market, so it’s not such a leap of logic to assume you are “fighting for the little guy”.

    Also, I’m not your friend, buddy ;)

    #277 5 years ago
  278. Shatner

    DB: That’s impossible to prove either way.

    But look at what happened to the experience of the legitimate owners of that game because of the act of it being pirated.

    It cost Stardock time and money to address the server overloads (hundreds of thousands of pirates all trying to play the game) and those that had the right to enjoy the product they had paid for were compromised directly due to the actions and greed of the software pirates.

    And, to add some irony to your example DB: Stardock suggested that “ignoring piracy” was the best practice. It didn’t get them very far did it? And if Stardock had continued to ignore piracy then every legitimate owner of Demigod would have suffered as a result.

    But, hey, the software pirates weren’t going to buy the game anyway right? So nobody suffers at all!

    #278 5 years ago
  279. SticKboy

    @ DaMan – well, that’s all I was blathering on about. I accept that people pirate, what I can’t abide is people defending it as some kind of noble act.

    #279 5 years ago
  280. Lutz

    Shatner, whatever good stuff you do write (And you do write some) is lost with the stupid comments at the end.

    #280 5 years ago
  281. Shatner

    That means a lot to me Lutz.

    I’ll file it with the other unsolicited feedback I get from anonymous people on the internet.

    #281 5 years ago
  282. deanimate

    why hello there mr squirrel! would you like some hazelnuts?
    squirrel: well, yes i would. many thanks!
    hohoho!
    squirrel:hahahah!
    hoooohohoho!
    squirrel:haha!
    hohohooooooohohohoh!
    squirrel:…ok enough

    #282 5 years ago
  283. Lutz

    Of course it does Shatner, otherwise you wouldn’t be here.

    #283 5 years ago
  284. dirigiblebill

    “And, to add some irony to your example DB: Stardock suggested that “ignoring piracy” was the best practice. It didn’t get them very far did it?”

    By your own and my admission, this can’t be proved – 18,000 initial sales may have been all Demigod could hope for.

    But yes, the experience of legitimate online users has obviously been compromised – and some reviewers e.g. Gamespot have noted this and adjusted their scores accordingly – so that’s a definite negative result of piracy right there.

    #284 5 years ago
  285. Shatner

    Heh, Lutz, I like how you’re trying to turn your failed attempt at nonchalance over to me.

    I appreciate that validation of opinions is important for many. I don’t really need or care for it. It amuses me that so many people put such worth in it.

    DON’T FORGET TO ADD ME AS A FRIEND ON FACEBOOK!

    #285 5 years ago
  286. dirigiblebill

    Do you know, I think we will see out 300 posts. Better get my cassock ready.

    #286 5 years ago
  287. Shatner

    Yeah DB. G1GA is waiting to pounce.

    He’s so unpredictable. You just never know what he’ll do next.

    #287 5 years ago
  288. Psychotext

    Shatner, you may not care about having your opinions validated, but you sure spend a lot of time letting others know that all your opinions are the right opinions.

    #288 5 years ago
  289. Hero of Canton

    Unsolicited, my arse. You’re fooling no-one. ;)

    That said, I just about agree with everything else you’ve said here, Shatto. Those who pirate should never try to justify their actions, because they’re simply not justifiable. You pirate games? Fine, that’s your prerogative. But don’t claim you’re on some noble cause to stick it to the man or that you’re doing nothing wrong.

    #289 5 years ago
  290. DaMan

    ” DaMan, comment 253 references a globalised market, so it’s not such a leap of logic to assume you were “fighting for the little guy”. ”

    SticKboy, I wasn’t fighting for the little guy, I simply stated that the little guy pirating something he can’t legally get his hands on isn’t as wrong as it is if he can easily buy it.

    and “my friend” – it actually means the exact opposite in this case.

    #290 5 years ago
  291. Spiral

    PT: Especially when they’re the wrong ones.

    #291 5 years ago
  292. Captain Fruitloop

    @dirigiblebill

    The whole Catholic thing’s a dawdle, once you learn the words. I’ll help get you started, mate: “Holy Mary, mother of God, pray for us sinners now…” :)

    #292 5 years ago
  293. Shatner

    PT: Of course my opinions are right. Just like Spiral believes his opinions are right.

    Fortunately for me, I tend to have a wealth of real-world evidence to support my views 99% of the time rather than just trying to make a clever-sounding but empty statement. In other cases I can talk from first hand experience rather than a combination of bias and guesswork.

    That’s what tends to make my opinions right a lot of the time. You don’t need a spreadsheet to see that.

    HoC, I have no interest in soliciting your ass but I hope you find a new pimp soon.

    ;)

    #293 5 years ago
  294. theevilaires

    Holy shit i can not believe my eyes. Did i start this? Guys please let it go before some ass hole on CNN/BBC gets wind of this shit and start hunting me and DaMan down.

    #294 5 years ago
  295. Lutz

    Heh, Lutz, I like how you’re trying to turn your failed attempt at nonchalance over to me.

    Heh, clearly you don’t know me Shatner. :)

    Anyway, PT next what I was gonna say, so I’ll leave it there.

    #295 5 years ago
  296. dirigiblebill

    @ Fruitloop

    Pfff, amateur ;)

    Initium evangelii Iesu Christi Filii Dei sicut scriptum est in Esaia propheta ecce mitto angelum meum ante faciem tuam qui praeparabit viam tuam…

    #296 5 years ago
  297. Lutz

    Opinion are like arseholes, everyones got one and they’re all full of shit.

    Some moreso than others.

    Yes Shatner, I stole part of that line too! Aren’t I a bad boy.

    /readies Spartan Phalanx

    #297 5 years ago
  298. Patrick Garratt

    Fucking Jesus. Oi, Beryl! She’s going over the top!

    #298 5 years ago
  299. SticKboy

    IAWTP!

    Also DaMan, that whole “friend/buddy” thing was only a South Park reference. am gon cry nao

    #299 5 years ago
  300. Lutz

    THIS! IS! SPARTA!

    #300 5 years ago
  301. Shatner

    Lutz,

    I don’t claim to know anyone. It’s a courtesy that few seem willing to extend to me. There’s a lot of people that flounce about telling me what I am or where I’m coming from.

    It’s amusiing how quickly their feathers get ruffled when they get a taste of their own medicine. :)

    #301 5 years ago
  302. DaMan

    and actually, Stickboy, I find it funny how me saying something half-seriously, commenting on a post that says, tbh childish but obvious things (basically) makes you think I see pirating on the same level as anti-government group or something.

    #302 5 years ago
  303. Lutz

    It’s a courtesy that few seem willing to extend to me.

    She cannae take it anymore cap’n! She’s gonna blow!

    Admittedly that would be better with a “300/spartan” reference, but I can’t think of any.

    #303 5 years ago
  304. dirigiblebill

    Consummatum est.

    #304 5 years ago
  305. DaMan

    I hope Shitner is as good at what he does as he’s at being a prick.

    tbh, I really find it hard to believe he ‘s older than 23.

    #305 5 years ago
  306. Shatner

    Lutz, it’s funny – I thought you didn’t care.

    Yet here you are knee-jerk responding to everything that gest said!

    Empty responses that are suggesting a contrary point of view without actually expressing anything meaningful or coherent.

    Not that you’re bothered of course!

    Right?

    DaMan, no need to make the situation worse for yourself. You’re the thief scumbag. Just because your excuses don’t stick and you make yourself look ridiculous by petulantly calling names and making school-yard level attacks.

    Is this the best you can do? You can’t make yourself look good so you’ll just try and make your critics look bad?

    Pull the other one. It’s got SecureROM on it.

    #306 5 years ago
  307. Lutz

    @Shatner, I need my kicks from somewhere, the EG forum is a bit shit today. You’re good for a laugh, so I thought I’d haunt this place and poke fun.

    #307 5 years ago
  308. Lutz

    Pull the other one. It’s got SecureROM on it.

    Now THAT was funny.

    #308 5 years ago
  309. Shatner

    Fair enough Lutz. ;)

    #309 5 years ago
  310. Lutz

    Aw. Don’t quit now. I’m almost there.

    #310 5 years ago
  311. G1GAHURTZ

    I wonder who will WIN this thead…

    #311 5 years ago
  312. DaMan

    Shitner.. my man. :) you see, some internet asshole (and a prick), on a foreign website, calling me something hardly matters. if I would live closer to you, I would seriously like chatting at least via skype or some web cam. because I really doubt you’re what you’re trying to make yourself look in these comments.

    and not just because of this topic, but because I’ve seen your commenting here since about September last year.

    #312 5 years ago
  313. Shatner

    If you consider discussion in terms of winning and losing, then you’ve already lost.

    DaMan, why on earth should anyone care what you think? Everyone here enjoys videogames. A great many of them pay for them.

    You’re the sort of person that makes things more expensive and compromises the value of legitimately purchased games for those people.

    You can try reaching for that moral ground high ground but I don’t think you’ll ever get there.

    #313 5 years ago
  314. DaMan

    Priceless.

    do you want your comment to be the last in this section?

    I’ve made a point about piracy, by commenting on a website. you did the same, aside from that high and mighty walls of text and everything related to me.

    #314 5 years ago
  315. Spiral

    I didn’t realise real world experience and facts became bias and guesswork if you didn’t have access to them Shatner. Maybe that’s where I’ve been going wrong in getting them from the source and gathering my own. Given your tendency to ignore the ones that prove you wrong I think I’ll stick to my own approach though.

    #315 5 years ago
  316. Shatner

    DaMan:
    And there you go again: if you can’t make yourself look big then you’ll try to make your critic look small.

    I thought you promised to shut up about a hundred or so posts back. You’re not a very trustworthy fellow are you?

    Spiral:
    You do that Spiral. A lot of people do but given that those kind of people also go about calling other people’s opinion’s “wrong” I don’t think I’ll be too bothered by them. They always seem to be far more interested in dismissing the views of someone else rather than having any inclination to put forward a view of their own.

    Wouldn’t you agree? :)

    #316 5 years ago
  317. The_Deleted

    [i]You’re the sort of person that makes things more expensive[/i]

    That’s not really true. If it wasn’t the piracy, I’m sure prices would remain as high as they are for some other reason.

    #317 5 years ago
  318. DaMan

    ” And there you go again: if you can’t make yourself look big then you’ll try to make your critic look small. ”
    Ahahaha.

    a hypocrite as well? well, that’s quite a bouquet.

    ” I thought you promised to shut up about a hundred or so posts back. You’re not a very trustworthy fellow are you? ”
    Ah-ah! you’ve promised the same, my man.

    #318 5 years ago
  319. SticKboy

    Spam! Spam! Spam! Spam!
    Lovely Spaaam! Wonderful Spaaam!
    Lovely Spaaam! Wonderful Spam!

    Spa-a-a-a-a-a-a-am.
    Spa-a-a-a-a-a-a-am.
    Spa-a-a-a-a-a-a-am.
    Spa-a-a-a-a-a-a-am.

    Lovely Spaaam! (Lovely Spam!)
    Lovely Spaaam! (Lovely Spam!)
    Lovely Spaaam!

    Spaaam, Spaaam, Spaaam, Spaaaaaam!

    #319 5 years ago
  320. Lutz

    And there you go again: if you can’t make yourself look big then you’ll try to make your critic look small.
    /gets on aeroplane for the first time
    /sips Chardonay
    /finds black fly
    /goes down in flames.

    Isn’t this nice?

    #320 5 years ago
  321. Shatner

    The_Deleted,

    Have a look at the extra costs that Stardock suffered with their servers thanks to the actions of their game being pirated. They raised the costs to the publisher, how else will the publisher get that money back?

    It’s a nice notion that prices would remain high but you can’t prove it until the pirates stop pirating.

    Just like the (quickly disproved) notion that piracy doesn’t harm anyone, it’s just a bit of pro-piracy fluff that can’t be proved one way or another. Pirates latch on to it because it obfuscates the issue and suggests that their actions are more to do with ‘combatting’ high prices than self-serving greed.

    And, if you check, game prices are cheaper now than they were in the 16-bit days. Even more so when you factor in interest and you pro-rata the size of the game to its 16-bit cousins. Not to mention that you can find new releases very heavily discounted should you choose to look. Something that is far more prevalent today than it’s ever been.

    If anything, prices are lower in spite of piracy. Perhaps they’d be even lower if the pirates stopped stifling revenue from the industry. Until the pirates stop we’ll never know.

    #321 5 years ago
  322. dirigiblebill

    If the thread gets to 400, I swear to renounce Catholicism and take up Scientology.

    #322 5 years ago
  323. SticKboy

    Sit on my face and tell me that you love me
    I’ll sit on your face and tell you I love you, too
    I love to hear you oralise
    When I’m between your thighs
    You blow me away!

    Sit on my face and let my lips embrace you
    I’ll sit on your face and then I’ll love you truly
    Life can be fine if we both sixty-nine
    If we sit on our faces in all sorts of places
    And play, ’til we’re blown away!

    #323 5 years ago
  324. Lutz

    400?

    Come on Shatner, we need another barney.

    I’d pick holes in your last post, bit it’s pretty spot on TBH.

    Can you spout some more bollocks pls?

    #324 5 years ago
  325. Shatner

    DaMan, I never made such a promise. If I had then I’m sure there would be plenty that would have lept on it instantly and just as many who would bookmark that comment to try and “win” a conversation elsewhere.

    You seem to rely an awful lot on obfuscating things, trying to muddy clear waters and generally do whatever you can to distract from you being a remorseless software pirate.

    You’re the worst type too. I’ve stated my view on piracy a couple of times here. But you’re one of those moral pirates who will spin absolutely everything you can get your hands on to make your greed and selfishness seem good and wholesome. And when you run out of things to spin you just try and attack your critics.

    You’re still proving everything I first said entirely correct. :)

    #325 5 years ago
  326. G1GAHURTZ

    This is the song that doesn’t eeeennd!

    #326 5 years ago
  327. Lutz

    Yes it goes on and on my friend!

    #327 5 years ago
  328. G1GAHURTZ

    Some people started singing it not knowing what it was!

    #328 5 years ago
  329. Lutz

    And they’ll continue singing it forever just because…

    #329 5 years ago
  330. G1GAHURTZ

    This is the song that doesn’t eeeennd!

    #330 5 years ago
  331. Lutz

    Yes it goes on and on my friend

    #331 5 years ago
  332. G1GAHURTZ

    Some people started singing it not knowing what it was

    #332 5 years ago
  333. SticKboy

    @ DaMan – I’m glad you found it funny, I’m here all week!

    #333 5 years ago
  334. Lutz

    And they’ll continue singing it forever just because…

    #334 5 years ago
  335. DaMan

    ” You seem to rely an awful lot on obfuscating things, trying to muddy clear waters and generally do whatever you can to distract from you being a remorseless software pirate.

    You’re the worst type too. I’ve stated my view on piracy a couple of times here. But you’re one of those moral pirates who will spin absolutely everything you can get your hands on to make your greed and selfishness seem good and wholesome. And when you run out of things to spin you just try and attack your critics. ”
    nonsense, really.

    you were the one who started this, and you are the one who keeps this going.

    haha. “obfuscating”? that’s the Shitner, at his best. saying that the guy who wouldn’t buy the stuff anyway is obfuscating!

    ” DaMan, I never made such a promise. If I had then I’m sure there would be plenty that would have lept on it instantly and just as many who would bookmark that comment to try and “win” a conversation elsewhere. ”

    no, what happened was you did say you won’t be replying to me here.

    do that, now. mmokay? have a nice day.

    #335 5 years ago
  336. Lutz

    Aw…. Stickboy… :(

    #336 5 years ago
  337. G1GAHURTZ

    You RUINED the song!!!!!!

    #337 5 years ago
  338. theevilaires

    you guys….just wow man! :P

    #338 5 years ago
  339. Shatner

    “no, what happened was you did say you won’t be replying to me here. ”

    DaMan, your loose grip on reality is getting looser with every post you make. Whilst the evidence that you’re a liar is growing.

    I’m not sure how I started this. I’m not the one who proudly endorsed piracy now am I? I’m not the one who believes that not paying for luxury goods like videogames should not prevent me from having them.

    But that’s just like a pirate isn’t it? Whatever THEY do, it’s not got any negative impact on anything. It’s always those OTHER people that are the cause of all the heartache!

    #339 5 years ago
  340. theevilaires

    Pirate movies and music, not games. THE END

    #340 5 years ago
  341. Lutz

    Pirate movies and music, not games. THE END

    Profound. Ly Stupid.

    #341 5 years ago
  342. DaMan

    ” DaMan, your loose grip on reality is getting looser with every post you make. Whilst the evidence that you’re a liar is growing.

    I’m not sure how I started this. I’m not the one who proudly endorsed piracy now am I? I’m not the one who believes that not paying for luxury goods like videogames should prevent me from having them.”

    a liar? so it wasn’t you who started this? oh.

    who quoted me to begin with? who is saying the same crap for 340+ comments, or keep posting walls of anti-piracy propaganda?

    stop talking to me, my man. now. simple, no?

    #342 5 years ago
  343. dirigiblebill

    Ridiculum factum istus threadus postus exceedus tetrahundredus majoris postus dickus est. Ego fuckus offus tous residentum publicus, carlsbergus imbibeus.

    #343 5 years ago
  344. theevilaires

    Lutz i was only joking (and i think you’re really psychotext BTW)

    #344 5 years ago
  345. Lutz

    You think I’m Psychotext? Why?

    #345 5 years ago
  346. theevilaires

    I have my reasons plus i know psychotext couldn’t pass up arguments like this without somehow involving his opinion (safely as a decoy) :P He’s here I know it and you “might” just be him…

    #346 5 years ago
  347. theevilaires

    Seraphemz i hope im making you proud with the comment record :P

    #347 5 years ago
  348. Lutz

    TEA: No, you don’t have your reasons do you? You’ve made a jump for no reason.

    I assure you, Psychotext and I are two seperate people.

    #348 5 years ago
  349. theevilaires

    Shatner is a beast, who is this guy :-)

    #349 5 years ago
  350. theevilaires

    well you two have a lot in common.

    350 comments I dedicate this one to my buddy Seraphemz :P

    #350 5 years ago
  351. Shatner

    “who quoted me to begin with?”

    Erm, logic fail.

    If I’m quoting what you ORIGINALLY SAID then how can I be the person that kicked things off? Typical pirate: You’re completely oblivious to your own cause and effect. Surely if you hadn’t said anything in the first place then I would have had nothing to quote would I?

    You’ve just scored an(other) own goal.

    “who is saying the same crap for 340+”

    Well, whilst I’ll claim I’ve made a lot of posts I don’t think that number is accurate. Logic seems to elude you and now your skills with basic numeracy are called into question.

    I’ve said the same thing because YOU are the same thing regardless of all your different efforts to dress up your greed and selfishness into something more wholesome sounding. You’ve flipped and flopped and pulled every single ‘Moral Pirate’ excuse in the book – but you’re still a software pirate.

    And I’ll speak to whoever I choose DaMan, you have no say in who I speak to. Perhaps if you stopped talking I would have nothing to respond to.

    Ah, no. I forgot: nothing a software pirate does has any effect on anything! It’s always the rest of the world that is to blame!

    #351 5 years ago
  352. Lutz

    Shatner is a beast, who is this guy

    … What? English, do you speak it?

    well you two have a lot in common.

    Be that as it may, I’m me and he’s him.

    Except at weekends. F’nar.

    #352 5 years ago
  353. Shatner

    … What? English, do you speak it?

    Still quoting other’s lines. Tut tut.

    :D

    #353 5 years ago
  354. Lutz

    Meh.

    DAMN.

    #354 5 years ago
  355. Psychotext

    Still going. I love it.

    #355 5 years ago
  356. Shatner

    The prospect of DirigibleBill becoming an alien-fearing zealot has served as a bit of a boost.

    Besides, Loltaku has comment threads this long just for posting a picture of a Mario birthday cake.

    #356 5 years ago
  357. theevilaires

    hey Lutz stop pirating my words punk

    #357 5 years ago
  358. Patrick Garratt

    O_o

    #358 5 years ago
  359. DaMan

    no, he’s not a prick. I’m sorry, this is some kind of mental ilness.


    Erm, logic fail.

    If I’m quoting what you ORIGINALLY SAID then how can I be the person that kicked things off? Typical pirate: You’re completely oblivious to your own cause and effect. Surely if you hadn’t said anything in the first place then I would have had nothing to quote would I?

    You’ve just scored an(other) own goal.”
    you started debating my point, didn’t you? you could’ve just comment on my post and move on, but no – you keep talking to me, even now.

    you’re a shizophrenic, my man.. I wonder if you think your comments make pirates download less stuff? you have to understand that no matter how much crap you post on this site, nobody will change because of that.

    ” I’ve said the same thing because YOU are the same thing regardless of all your different efforts to dress up your greed and selfishness into something more wholesome sounding. You’ve flipped and flopped and pulled every single ‘Moral Pirate’ excuse in the book – but you’re still a software pirate.”
    yes, but like I said you’ve made your point, I made mine. what now? talk until the end of time?


    And I’ll speak to whoever I choose DaMan, you have no say in who I speak to. Perhaps if you stopped talking I would have nothing to respond to. ”

    hahaha. priceless, “I’m talking to you even if you don’t want to talk to me”! haha.

    shizophrenia. that or you just have to get laid at least once in a week. :)

    #359 5 years ago
  360. theevilaires

    yea but VG247 is more sophisticated than Kotaku IMO

    #360 5 years ago
  361. G1GAHURTZ

    See.

    I told you he was nuts.

    #361 5 years ago
  362. Psychotext

    By the way… are there any 100+ comments news items on VG247 that don’t involve Shatner?

    #362 5 years ago
  363. G1GAHURTZ

    I SERIOUSLY doubt it.

    #363 5 years ago
  364. theevilaires

    who me? Im not nuts im a Seed(er) get it :P …. Seeder….ok nevermind

    #364 5 years ago
  365. Shatner

    I see that DaMan’s grip on reality isn’t any firmer but he’s really determined to go down the school-yard insult route.

    I like how he’s quoting me with “inverted commas” but actually making up things I never said to put between them. Then he goes and argues against those things!

    Also the bit where I was unfair not to just let him enjoy being a software pirate without being criticised by anyone is a bit of merriement.

    The only remorse DaMan shows is that he doesn’t like his greed and selfishness being criticised. He’s still happy to be boast about being greedy and selfish, just so long as you don’t criticise him for it. That’s just not fair.

    How noble!

    #365 5 years ago
  366. G1GAHURTZ

    Days in a leap year!

    #366 5 years ago
  367. G1GAHURTZ

    Nah, not you TEA.

    #367 5 years ago
  368. theevilaires

    @ Psycho, ask the same about yourself also buddy

    #368 5 years ago
  369. DaMan

    “See.

    I told you he was nuts.

    G1GA – 100% agreed. now I understand why you’ve posted that stuff last autumn..

    #369 5 years ago
  370. theevilaires

    dude if we make it to 400 comments i’m donating a $1 for every piece of media content I have pirated to the nearest church

    #370 5 years ago
  371. DaMan

    maybe shatner is a bot?

    #371 5 years ago
  372. Psychotext

    @theevilaires – Yeah, but it’s not generally me… umm… “stimulating debate”.

    #372 5 years ago
  373. theevilaires

    For the record I blame myself for starting this mess with a statement that I made all the way back at comment #7. I feel ashamed and I deeply apologize if people got upset by any of this…..

    Shatner Rules! but so does Free Stuff :P

    #373 5 years ago
  374. Shatner

    People aren’t nuts for objecting to scumbags like you, DaMan, for making their hobbies more expensive and for compromising the experience they get when they PAY for things.

    You steal and you ensure the every paying customer has to pay MORE. Then you go on about how hard life is where you are and you should steal so you can give games to your mates.

    You write endless bullshit excuses to make your shitty behaviour look reasonable and when you run out of excuses you just attack your critics with childish remarks.

    You’re lying scum that shows no remorse for your crimes. It’s not nuts to object to people like you who think that ripping people off is fun hobby and rubs it in their faces.

    I’d question the sanity of those that support your selfishness and greed rather than those that object to it.

    But you’re a software pirate. And you still believe stealing from people is ok. And you increasingly show truly gobsmacking levels of ignorance and insularity in how nothing you ever do affects anything at all.

    You’re exactly the worst sort of moral pirate theiving scum I referred to in my earliest posts and every single thing you’ve written has proved it. And I don’t care how many times I repeat it.

    #374 5 years ago
  375. DaMan

    hmmm.

    I wonder if that wall of propaganda will make any effect on the amount of seeders.

    visit a psychiatrist, Shatner. seriously.

    #375 5 years ago
  376. Doomsayer

    Shatner FTW, seriously :)

    #376 5 years ago
  377. DaMan

    too bad he’s like that on the internet. I really hope you can do anything irl, Shatner.

    for the record, all he did was dismissing my point.

    #377 5 years ago
  378. Shatner

    Stop pirating software DaMan.

    Seriously.

    Your childish remarks don’t make you any less of a thief.

    #378 5 years ago
  379. G1GAHURTZ

    Shatner seemed to be implying before that it’s ok to break the terms of your PSN service and user agreement.

    Seemed to be suggesting that there was nothing wrong with lying on a contract in order to download content that Sony specifically didn’t want him to have as someone outside the SCEA territory.

    I don’t see much difference between someone who LIES to get software that he’s not allowed to have, and someone who uses a keygen or a crack.

    #379 5 years ago
  380. DaMan

    shatner – see above.

    #380 5 years ago
  381. theevilaires

    Holy shit G1ga just cracked this case. He makes a good point but hold on G1ga most of the stuff is free anyway and sony doesn’t make huge profits off of game demos and teaser vids so i guess you don’t have a point….

    #381 5 years ago
  382. Shatner

    I’ve been waiting for you to try that one G1GA. :D

    Unfortunately, I did nothing of the sort (not that you ever let facts ever get in the way of your opinion!). And the incident you’re hoping to sound clever about was regarding free software (free as in the software publisher was distributing it for free, not because a thief decided they didn’t want to pay anything for it).

    By all means, quote the article and we’ll see just how much of an unhinged fruitloop you were with your wild accusations and SCREAMING CAPITALS.

    It’ll just show you as being wrong twice (then and now) and a little too desperate to disrupt things – even at the expense of your own credibility.

    Not only that, it shows your complete ignorance in the difference between copyright and distribution.

    So, unfortunately G1GA, your recollection is based on your guesswork and hoping to imply I said things that I didn’t.

    Oh, how’s that rock-solid guranteed PS3 price cut from 3 weeks back going on Mr. I never get my facts wrong? Hmm?

    Ah, we’d better change the subject or call in the MDF! Can’t have G1GA’s ‘facts’ being shown up for the bullshit they are can we? :D

    You’re a little too much of an unhinged troll to really pull off anything serious G1GA. You didn’t really plan ahead.

    #382 5 years ago
  383. Spiral

    But it’s an opinion Shatner. How can it be wrong?

    #383 5 years ago
  384. G1GAHURTZ

    BOOM! HEADSHOT!

    LOL!

    #384 5 years ago
  385. Lutz

    Your childish remarks don’t make you any less of a thief.

    Correction, copyright infringer.

    #385 5 years ago
  386. Shatner

    Spiral, you’re still doing the knee-jerk contrary thing. Don’t you kids have any new tricks?

    It can be wrong because it’s not an opinion. Nor is it fact. It’s a troll with a silly internet grudge hoping to throw some vaguaries into an unrelated conversation that’ll make him look clever.

    Alas, whilst I know what he’s alluding to, I also know what I said.

    It isn’t what G1GA implies I said and he is therefore wrong.

    By all means have a look at what G1GA is referring to (funny that he didn’t link to it isn’t it? ) and you’ll see the specifics for yourself. Not the fuzzy claims G1GA is hoping to discredit me with.

    You’ll also see a lot of crazy screaming and trolling from G1GA. But then, it WAS a Sony-focused topic. :)

    G1GA’s awfully good at glossing over his own poor behaviour when he’s hoping to besmirch someone else :D

    #386 5 years ago
  387. DaMan

    btw, it’s 387 and he still didn’t answer how a chinese who wouldn’t buy the game anyway damages the devs. morally unfair – yes, any real harm – no.

    #387 5 years ago
  388. G1GAHURTZ

    Thing is TEA, if you’re (not you, him) going to act like a self righteous, holier than thou, condascending idiot, you’ve got to make sure you aren’t so obviously hypocritical.

    Fair enough, if you only want to pay for stuff that you can’t get for border reasons, do what you want.

    But don’t act like you’re whiter than white when it suits you, because it’s clearly not the case!

    PWNED!

    #388 5 years ago
  389. dirigiblebill

    OK, people. I think we all need to take a big step back, breathe out and fire up some Youtube detox tunes.

    Seriously now, let’s call it a day. I really don’t want to become a Scientologist.

    #389 5 years ago
  390. Shatner

    I don’t regard myself answerable to thieves.

    And, with the Demigod example, it’s already been shown just how much ‘real harm’ is done by those that insist they were never going to buy the game but pirate it anyway.

    DaMan, you will never gain the moral high-ground in this topic. You will never succeed in presenting yourself as the victim or wronged party.

    The way you leap enthusiastically onto ANY angle that presents itself that might make you look less of a scumbag or might demonise your critics is a wasted effort. Espeically depending on any garbage G1GA posts. Nobody takes him seriously!

    Remember that, in the last week, 4 people have been fined and sentenced to a year’s imprisonment for acts less severe than your own.

    #390 5 years ago
  391. Lutz

    10 more posts to go and it’s tin foil hat time for dirigiblebill

    #391 5 years ago
  392. Lutz

    Isn’t Demigod an MMO?

    #392 5 years ago
  393. theevilaires

    we all agree shatner is going to the moon with this but he’s ultimately right….doesn’t mean im gonna jump on his train any time soon, but shatner you have my word I will never pirate games…any more (sorry had to get the whole NES,SNES,and Sega Collections on Roms)

    #393 5 years ago
  394. dirigiblebill

    SWING AWAY

    #394 5 years ago
  395. DaMan

    ” DaMan, you will never gain the moral high-ground in this topic. You will never succeed in presenting yourself as the victim or wronged party. ”
    see? shizo.

    I will never gain any moral high ground when I agreed that it’s morally unfair..

    #395 5 years ago
  396. theevilaires

    lol DB is going to oprah and start jumping on couches

    #396 5 years ago
  397. Shatner

    Note how enthused G1GA is getting?

    Note how he’s still not linking to his so-called proof or willing to go into anything specific about his claims?

    He won’t do either of those things because he knows it’ll backfire on him.

    He will, on the other hand, just carry on as if what he said was irrefutable fact and do his LOL! prancing about and general disruption.

    He won’t ever answer the PS3 price cut question because his precious internet ego will take a bruising. Just as it will if he ever substantiated the vague claims about me.

    Bluff and posturing.

    #397 5 years ago
  398. dirigiblebill

    This is the end of the thread.

    ———————————

    That line right there, that’s the bottom of the page.

    OHSHIT.

    #398 5 years ago
  399. Lutz

    XENU IS COMING.

    #399 5 years ago
  400. Mike

    So, has Shatner backed down and said sorry for being wrong (again) on the internet yet?

    lol

    #400 5 years ago
  401. theevilaires

    Paul Simon LOL :P

    #401 5 years ago
  402. DaMan

    two options:

    1)nuts.
    2)anti-piracy organization.

    #402 5 years ago
  403. Lutz

    HE’S HERE

    Bye bye dirigiblebill.

    #403 5 years ago
  404. G1GAHURTZ

    Ooh!

    I’m at the top of the page!

    EDIT: DOH!

    Stop posting so fast you guys!!

    #404 5 years ago
  405. dirigiblebill

    NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

    #405 5 years ago
  406. dirigiblebill

    Anyone fancy a stress-test?

    #406 5 years ago
  407. Psychotext

    We also need to find out how much pirating TEA has done so he can make that donation to his local church.

    #407 5 years ago
  408. G1GAHURTZ

    He’s clearly mental.

    Have you seen that scene in Se7en where they go into John Doe’s room?

    They find books and books with pages and pages of mundane writing that nobody cares about.

    That’s Phil right there…

    Loopy. Probably couldn’t stop if he tried…

    #408 5 years ago
  409. Shatner

    Ah, Mike.

    Another throwaway “I’ll just say something disruptive and scamper away again” contribution.

    I’ve yet to see you back down about the claims you make about specific things are wrong.

    Those are some cute double-standards you have there.

    It’s funny how Mike pops up just after G1GA starts trolling isn’t it? What a coincidence!

    And I see G1GA is behaving in exactly the way I said he would. He won’t back up what he claimed, he’ll just bluff and bluster his way onwards and hope that works instead.

    Come on G1GA! Why don’t you show the boys and girls what you were talking about? Hmm? Your internet ego can take it, I’m sure. :D

    #409 5 years ago
  410. theevilaires

    dirigiblebill have fun in HELL BWAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!

    #410 5 years ago
  411. theevilaires

    shut up PT you want me out on the streets.

    #411 5 years ago
  412. Psychotext

    Oh dear. :D

    #412 5 years ago
  413. dirigiblebill

    OK chaps, if we get to 500 I’ll try Islam.

    This is certainly proving to be an educational afternoon.

    #413 5 years ago
  414. Mike

    Well I wont back down, no I wont back down
    You can stand me up at the gates of hell
    But I wont back down

    Gonna stand my ground, wont be turned around
    And Ill keep this world from draggin me down
    Gonna stand my ground and I wont back down

    Hey baby, there aint no easy way out
    Hey I will stand my ground
    And I wont back down.

    Well I know whats right, I got just one life
    In a world that keeps on pushin me around
    But Ill stand my ground and I wont back down

    Hey baby there aint no easy way out
    Hey I will stand my ground
    And I wont back down
    No, I wont back down

    #414 5 years ago
  415. theevilaires

    Everybody can’t we all just get along. and remember this song the next time you decide when to pirate something or not

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UaNwN2lTrtg&feature=related

    #415 5 years ago
  416. Shatner

    Why would you troll on your own site? Even Loltaku contributors know better than that!

    I sure hope those lyrics aren’t copyrighted Mike.

    (Oh, I like how you’ve completely glossed over your own double-standards too. Good work!)

    #416 5 years ago
  417. Lutz

    Can we all stop now please? Having dirigiblebill as a scientologist is much funnier than a muslim.

    #417 5 years ago
  418. Mike

    Do you all think Shatner will respond every time I make a post?

    Let’s see, shall we.

    #418 5 years ago
  419. Cort

    DaMan,

    If you actually read my posts you might understand what I was saying. Taking sentences in isolation, removing them from context, is what trolls do.

    What I was saying is that I don’t deny that piracy has helped the PSP by selling units, but that without piracy the PSP would have had a better library and consequently still sold well anyway, so *IN EFFECT* it has not helped in a way that it has done something for the hardware which otherwise would not have happened.

    Now fuck off.

    #419 5 years ago
  420. theevilaires

    Ain’t Gonna Hurt Nobody!….I just want to dance ya’ll, Ain’t Gonna Hurt Nobody!

    Man where are you Seraphemz! :P

    #420 5 years ago
  421. Shatner

    I think DB is cheapening religion enough as it is. He was only chatholic for a couple of hours.

    Hey Mike, how about I only respond every time you say something that’s simply there to be disruptive without contributing anything of worth?

    Let’s see, shall we?

    EDIT: I rather like that particular typo. I’m leaving it as it is.

    #421 5 years ago
  422. dirigiblebill

    I was thoroughly enjoying my two hours of Catholicism, thank you, before you bastards flipped the switch.

    Now if you’ll excuse me, I need to go forge some bomb threats in the name of Suppressive Persons and deny commonly available treatments to the mentally ill.

    /kicks over Oprah’s sofa

    #422 5 years ago
  423. DaMan

    Cort – the thing is, it probably sold more due to piracy than it would if people wouldn’t pirate it that much and it (hypothetically) would have more software..

    and anyway – in the future, how about you make your comments more understandable, instead of calling people names?

    now go fuck yourself.

    #423 5 years ago
  424. theevilaires

    Just did a tally, i have to donate $243,751.??(%)

    #424 5 years ago
  425. Cort

    DaMan,

    What? My last post repeated what I said before and in mostly the same words. If you understood it today why was it so cryptic yesterday? Suggest you read properly rather than take sections in isolation.

    #425 5 years ago
  426. Syrok

    Oi, you are talking to much for anti-social gamers. Stick to your stereotype.

    #426 5 years ago
  427. Psychotext

    @TEA – You have been busy.

    #427 5 years ago
  428. SticKboy

    DaMan – why on earth would the PSP have *more* software due to its high level of piracy? Please explain.

    #428 5 years ago
  429. DaMan

    Cort – fair enough, then I misunderstood your post yesterday.

    SticKboy – I said PSP sold more (hardware)
    quote:

    the thing is, IT (PSP) probably SOLD more due to piracy than it would if people wouldn’t pirate it that much and it (hypothetically) would have more software.

    where’s me saying it would have more soft due to piracy? I said it would hypothetically (probably) have more software if it wasn’t pirated. but – probably about the same amount.

    #429 5 years ago
  430. Cort

    DaMan,

    I apologise for my language and for suggesting you were acting like a troll. Bad mood today; but no excuse.

    #430 5 years ago
  431. DaMan

    allright.

    #431 5 years ago
  432. theevilaires

    @PT Blame sony for letting me put 500gb hdds in my PS3s. I need something to fill that space. I currently have all the video game trailers ever released on psn from all the PlayStation store regions :P at a whooping 90gb. I guess I could fill the rest with private home videos with all my lady friends, but they always see the Playstation eye lights :P

    #432 5 years ago
  433. Seraphemz

    WTF..this cant be right. 432 posts?

    #433 5 years ago
  434. theevilaires

    My boy is here YOOOOOOO! Seraphemz

    #434 5 years ago
  435. theevilaires

    Psychotext said: @TEA – You have been busy.

    …and you haven’t?….

    #435 5 years ago
  436. Seraphemz

    What up Evil ? Congratz man…this is your all time best !

    #436 5 years ago
  437. Psychotext

    @TEA: The last time I pirated a game I was in college… that was some time ago.

    #437 5 years ago
  438. theevilaires

    @ Seraphemz, Thank you, but if it wasn’t for shatner and DaMan, plus others this would have never come true. Its just all so beautiful :-)

    @ PT, thanks for coming out the closet. Even though I don’t pirated games myself. That game you pirated in college wouldn’t happen to have been Microsofts first flight sim game would it :P

    #438 5 years ago
  439. Psychotext

    I think it might have been “The Curse of Monkey Island”.

    I’m to blame for the death of point and click adventures. :(

    #439 5 years ago
  440. theevilaires

    i just googled that and a couple of torrent links came up LOL :P

    #440 5 years ago
  441. No_PUDding

    I don’t really know why I am posting. I don’t want to be a dick but seriously, why is it so difficult to have a proper comment section. Or is this it?

    I think I am having a mid-on-line-life crisis.

    #441 5 years ago
  442. Psychotext

    Buy a motorbike Pud… then ride it online.

    #442 5 years ago
  443. theevilaires

    every one pretty much stayed on topic so i don’t see your issue PUD.

    #443 5 years ago
  444. theevilaires

    its really all in fun and laughs. This was GRRRRRRREEAAT! :P

    #444 5 years ago
  445. theevilaires

    I’m printing this out and will hang it in my game room when i get to california

    #445 5 years ago
  446. Mike

    I know people who bought the PSP purely so they could play Super Mario World on it. I’m sure if it had been completely locked down so that no homebrew was possible, it’s a plausible assumption that there wouldn’t be as many in the wild.

    #446 5 years ago
  447. theevilaires

    Morriss….just let it go :P

    #447 5 years ago
  448. Psychotext

    For what it’s worth… if it wasn’t for the R4 card I know 3 people that wouldn’t own a DS.

    I chastise them as filthy pirates every time I see them… but they don’t pay any attention. :D

    #448 5 years ago
  449. Mike

    Did you report them to the police for stealing? it’s the same thing, dontchyano.

    #449 5 years ago
  450. Psychotext

    Ignoring the obvious…

    Two of them are my nieces, and I don’t think I’d be too popular if FACT came knocking on the door.

    #450 5 years ago
  451. theevilaires

    Ain’t Gonna Hurt Nobody..Just Dancing Ya’ll…Ain’t Gonna Hurt Nobody :-)

    #451 5 years ago
  452. theevilaires

    Uncle PT had us sent to prison LOL

    #452 5 years ago
  453. Seraphemz

    This is crazy…really. F it… how about we take it to 500 !!!

    #453 5 years ago
  454. theevilaires

    If pirating is so bad why don’t these big corporations go after google for having links to pirated material. A lot of people started pirating by accident you know.

    #454 5 years ago
  455. theevilaires

    you know i got your back Seraphemz. Lets do this! :P

    #455 5 years ago
  456. dirigiblebill

    You’ve got his what now?

    GET A ROOM.

    #456 5 years ago
  457. Psychotext

    You know… thinking about it, FACT is a bit of a stupid name. How exactly does one commit copyright theft?

    THIS IS MY COPYRIGHT NOW, YOU CAN’T HAVE IT!

    /scarpers

    #457 5 years ago
  458. theevilaires

    funny DB funny you know what i meant

    #458 5 years ago
  459. theevilaires

    You know… thinking about it, FACT is a bit of a stupid name. How exactly does one commit copyright theft?

    THIS IS MY COPYRIGHT NOW, YOU CAN’T HAVE IT!

    uh oh please don’t sue me LOL

    #459 5 years ago
  460. Psychotext

    All finished! :D

    #460 5 years ago
  461. G1GAHURTZ

    Yeah.

    Nobody is going to comment here again, surely…

    #461 5 years ago
  462. DaMan

    sucks that Esha doesn’t visit this site anymore :)

    now that would be apocalypse.

    #462 5 years ago
  463. Psychotext

    He does from time to time.

    #463 5 years ago
  464. DaMan

    I haven’t seen his posts since January I think. well, maybe only once, about a month ago.

    #464 5 years ago
  465. Prof Power Glove

    I might start commenting on this news soon. What’s been said already?

    #465 5 years ago
  466. Psychotext

    You should read every post… but take Valium first.

    #466 5 years ago
  467. theevilaires

    Ain’t Gonna Hurt Nobody….Just Dancing Ya’ll….Ain’t Gonna Hurt Nobody :P

    I’m still dancing to that song from this afternoon :P

    http://www.vg247.com/2009/04/23/pirate-bay-attorney-files-for-mistrial-says-judge-was-biased/

    We will never stop!!! Long Live The Pirates Bay!!!

    #467 5 years ago
  468. theevilaires

    Yeah where is that Esha guy. I remember when I first started to come here he was one of the few people who had the “Voice of Reason”. The guy made some good points almost every comment he post.

    If you’re out there Esha and you’re reading this please make your much needed return brother.

    Ain’t Gonna Hurt Nobody….Just Dancing Baby….Ain’t Gonna Hurt Nobody.

    #468 5 years ago
  469. Dragon246

    Presenting a piece of vg247 history……
    500 is still possible guys. Anyone game? :D

    Although this is precisely the reason I feel vita still has a chance to bounce back. It still isn’t suffering from psps biggest enemy which eventually lead to its downfall- Piracy.

    #469 2 years ago
  470. polygem

    …uh oh…

    #470 2 years ago
  471. polygem

    …what…

    #471 2 years ago
  472. polygem

    …is going on…

    #472 2 years ago
  473. polygem

    …here?

    #473 2 years ago
  474. Da Man

    Have you tried masturbating, Dragon1234567890 yet? Or is it just vg247 and Metal Gear soundtracks daily?

    It’s been a while since I’ve seen people bumping four year old threads due to having literally zero life. Poor young man.

    #474 2 years ago
  475. theevilaires

    Fuck it lets do it. this comment thread is legendary and I so wanted to hit 500 :D

    I’ll kick it off by admitting I have hacked my PSP but I only play Snes roms on it ;) If SONY don’t get their act together with the Vita then i’ll do the same with that too. Only this time with gamecube roms :D

    #475 2 years ago
  476. OrbitMonkey

    I never hacked a PSP, but I had 3 RD cards(?) for my kids ds’s… Really hope one comes out for the 3DS!!

    #476 2 years ago
  477. bitsnark

    TEA!

    Welcome back :)

    #477 2 years ago
  478. theevilaires

    I hacked my PSP last year I get bored with it collecting dust man. So I said screw it. Sony was smart placing the high price on memory cards for the Vita and not really the games, but its still a pain in the ass and hacking a Vita really is next to not worth doing it because the machine really is awesome for games and PS+ is the best thing SONY could have done to prevent people to want to hack it for piracy. I still wish they’d support MKV files.

    #478 2 years ago
  479. CyberMarco

    LoL

    #479 2 years ago
  480. ManuOtaku

    The one thing i got for this epic thread, by the way i missed i wanst a member in that time, it is that there is a lot of alternative accounts or people that had use a lot of different names here, a lot i say.

    That and also the things did change a lot, the nintendo defence force wanst born yet ;)
    p.s i think thats why nobody did mess with nintendo in that thread, or at least anyone to defend them :)

    #480 2 years ago
  481. theevilaires

    Thanks Bitsnark don’t actually remember you but thanks :) I guess to get to 500 post we should make this my welcome back thread :D

    #481 2 years ago
  482. KrazyKraut

    Got my Nexus 7 today…very nice piece of tablet for “only” 209 €…

    #482 2 years ago
  483. OrbitMonkey

    Well Sony sent me a email which entitles me to a free 8 gig memory card with a purchase of a Vita… Anyone have that promotion outside of the UK?

    #483 2 years ago
  484. CyberMarco

    Like OrbitMonkey said, I was amazed I could get a free 8 gig memory card with a purchase of a Vita! :D

    #484 2 years ago
  485. OrbitMonkey

    ^ lol!

    Though tbh, it’d need to be a free vita with the purchase of a memory card, for me to jump onboard ;-)

    #485 2 years ago
  486. CyberMarco

    ^ true dat!

    P.S. What/who is TEA?

    #486 2 years ago
  487. Spider Law

    ^ The Evil Aires…..the inFamous one at that.
    Fuck yeah!
    Welcome back man!

    #487 2 years ago
  488. OrbitMonkey

    ^ Welcome back you inglorious bastard! And hands off tea’s wife! (His accusation, not mine).

    @486, Legend says that Chuck Norris once went into a gamestore to return a faulty ps1… Tea convinced him to buy 2 more…

    #488 2 years ago
  489. monkeygourmet

    @487

    Oh shit, it’s like an embarrassing come back in wrestling…

    Can you only comment when TEA is back?

    Or double account shit going on?

    Welcome back what? I hope everyone has nets to catch all the bullshit that’s going to be flying…

    #489 2 years ago
  490. polygem

    so the magic spell needed was to reactivate a 2009 thread…then tea gets back. no brainer. man took long to figure that out. pure logic. riddle. solved.

    #490 2 years ago
  491. OrbitMonkey

    ^ You may mock my fellow monkey, but things may start to get fun again!

    Lulshock94 better be next :)

    #491 2 years ago
  492. polygem

    @488:
    “Legend says that Chuck Norris once went into a gamestore to return a faulty ps1… Tea convinced him to buy 2 more…”

    yea but legend continues: he taped them together, added an old mobile phone, showed it to nintendo, then pissed all over it. they bought it and named the thing wiiu.

    #492 2 years ago
  493. polygem

    spider law too!!!….now i have to turn off the pc and breath slowly.

    #493 2 years ago
  494. monkeygourmet

    @491

    It’s not mocking dude,

    I was around back then… Things were verging on bullying, no actual points to arguments…

    Basically schoolyard shit…

    That was never cool. If your into that shit, fine, but I know for a fact that other posters had loads of unfair shit from those guys (that guy with alt accounts).

    No ones innocent, but generally now, people tend to back things up with facts rather than witch hunting…

    #494 2 years ago
  495. monkeygourmet

    @493

    Come on…

    On the same day…?

    Alt account, or people who spend far too much time planning a come back after leaving in a hissy fit…

    #495 2 years ago
  496. OrbitMonkey

    @Monkey, Yes i was there too, around the time of the ps3 hack was.. hectic… & there was shit flung from all sides…

    But as for bullying? Well a certain ‘Man’ has been stomping about a fair bit, but no complaints from yourself… Why the concern now?

    #496 2 years ago
  497. polygem

    yes it´s creepy…but spider law and tea? naahhhh i don´t think it´s alt account stuff going on but who knows. they both are huge ps3 supporters if i recall that correct. oh god, i see tough times coming.

    #497 2 years ago
  498. OlderGamer

    MonkeyG +1.

    Wise words MG, very wise.

    #498 2 years ago
  499. OlderGamer

    Spider and Tea are different people. Spider, Lex, and a cple others are off site friends. My guess is that they had Teas return planed. Well Tea did anyways. He prolly just told his friends.

    #499 2 years ago
  500. polygem

    wait a minute. dragon takes a 6 month break, before that he reactivates a 2009 thread, tea and spider law are back that second…this is some fucking witchcraft thing. no seriously. before i am getting paranoid now i turn the pc off. immediateley. the world will go to hell 21st anyway i´ve heard.

    #500 2 years ago
  501. OrbitMonkey

    @Actually Monkey, on a completely different, but serious topic, I remember you saying you help care for Autistic adults?

    If its not too much trouble could you post a forum with suggesting reading material, or links, about care for autistic children & onwards?

    As someone in that profession I would appreciate your opinion. If i’ve got it wrong i apologise.

    #501 2 years ago
  502. theevilaires

    We did it :) Now you can print it out and hang it on your wall Garratt!

    #502 2 years ago
  503. polygem

    by the way. if that was what mattered. i was post # 500 you lazy punks

    #503 2 years ago
  504. monkeygourmet

    @496

    Man is an obvious troll.

    Effective but without finesse…

    TEA and cronies had a brogasm going together that steamrolled a lot of good people.

    I’ve been bullied before, I’ve bullied people before (much to my shame), but that was clearly schoolyard bro chest bump shit…

    Da Man has tried to get me onside before, but he flip flops so much it’s not even funny. Easy troll is easy to ignore for me, that’s why I haven’t bothered to call him out.

    But this is all too convieniant IMO… :)

    #504 2 years ago
  505. monkeygourmet

    @Poly

    Whoot!!! Congrats dude!!! :D

    #505 2 years ago
  506. polygem

    it´s all about patience, timing and yea you need some skills too :)

    #506 2 years ago
  507. OrbitMonkey

    @Tea, We all know Pat is either…

    A) Not giving a shit.

    or

    B) Laughing maniacally about how great a puppet master he is and chanting “I knew they’d be back!”

    Personally I hope its B :)

    #507 2 years ago
  508. monkeygourmet

    @501

    Yeah, I manage a home for people with profound Learning Difficulties & Autism.

    Without breaching confidentiality obviously, I care for 3 adults and help with behavioural therapy and day to day running off the service with my staff.

    Got about 10 years experience although its mainly with adults. Would like to work with children as a lot of ‘in grained’ behaviours are established through the formative years.

    I know it sounds terrible, but I feel I learn a lot more working directly with people than from reading, although I’m happy to discuss a few texts that have helped me gain perspective.

    I don’t dismiss text altogether (have to work within strict guidelines), but being able to adapt and be sensitive to rapidly changing moods helps alot I find! :)

    Would be happy to discuss things on a thread if you need help with similar work or other info! :)

    #508 2 years ago
  509. Telepathic.Geometry

    Pat is right now attending the “You made 500 posts in a thread” award ceremony. Afterwards he’ll ascend into the heavens and meld with the universal consciousness…

    #509 2 years ago
  510. Spider Law

    @489 No alt account….I’ve stealth commented here as my secondary gaming news source since my big departure, ask Michael or OG

    @493
    Deep breaths man lol

    @495
    No planning or alternate accounts. Like I said, stealth watching

    @497
    Correct…but outta us two, I at least supported the 360 a heavy amount and even the Wii at times too. But yeah, PS3 rules mang…but then again the man did buy me a 360 slim bundle or Christmas.

    @499
    Yeah OG, you know what’s up.

    @500
    Hahaha you make this all worth while

    @504
    I just remember you getting trolled too easily ant that got boring so no need to worry your little head.

    #510 2 years ago
  511. daytripper

    “My big departure” ha ha ha :-D

    #511 2 years ago
  512. Spider Law

    @512
    You like that? I’ve got plenty more ;-)

    #512 2 years ago
  513. daytripper

    Yep :-D

    #513 2 years ago
  514. Dragon246

    All it needs is a little push. Man, you all crossed the goal when I was sleeping, I AM ANGRY!!!

    @475
    Thanks dude. This piece of history deserved its place the vg247 lore.
    I was searching for some stats and stumbled upon this piece of beauty, lucky me!

    #514 2 years ago
  515. stretch215

    Holy shit! Fucking TeA. Is that really you?

    #515 2 years ago
  516. Ireland Michael

    @TEA, bitsnark used to go under the username Stolen Glory, who is one of the longest running members on this site.

    I don’t think anything actually realised that’s him. I hope he wasn’t intentionally hiding it, or I just blew his cover. -_-

    Hope you’re keeping safe and life is treating you well. Same to you Spider.

    #516 2 years ago
  517. manamana

    Holy shite! Idonteven …

    #517 2 years ago
  518. Da Man

    Trolling? I’m yet to do that (notwithstanding 4 year old threads).

    You have to have quite a limited vocabulary, either that or perception of a 12 years old to call anyone who mocks as being a troll.

    Incidentally, that reminds me of a certain ..poster who used to think people have some hidden agenda every time they disagreed.

    Believe it or not I really do think some people are precisely what I call them. No finesse needed there.

    #518 2 years ago