Pretentious! Ha! Now Braid. That’s a pretentious game.

I won’t argue that. Games like Bioshock, Fallout, etc. do a much better job at telling a story. However, I’ve never thought it was the plots that made MGS so special. What makes MGS a cut above most other games is the character development: Snake is such a wonderfully complex character: heroic, selfish, tormented, tragic. I would love for more games to have characters as flawed and as compelling as Snake, or many of the other MGS characters.

Plus, Kojima has these brilliant ways developing characters so unique to the medium: [spoilers] think about the beginning of Act 4 when Snake arrives at Shadow moses and how Kojima uses the flashbacks of a young virile snake from MGS1 and how the decrepit, forgotten Shadow Moses becomes a metaphor for snake, himself. Or when snake is the microwave chamber, and you effectively have to feel his suffering to get through by wailing on that triangle button like your life depended on it.

MGS may not be the epitome of storytelling, but it really is one of the high points in gaming character development.

Because its the worst example of good storytelling in the industry?

It’s fun to get wrapped up in the ridiculously complicated backstory and history if you’re into that kind of thing, and try to figure it all out, but it’s by no stretch strong storytelling. It’s too pretentious.

I quite like the games, but they completely lost the plot about half way into the first game and then steadily got even worse. I haven’t played MGS4, I dread to think what that one’s like.

I’m actually a big fan of how far games can change in regard to delivering more than just a game experience, but out of thousands and thousands of games only a few so far have contained anything of real worth – I don’t mean narrative, but actual depth of character, emotional content and a theme.

ICO does, as does Silent Hill 2 and Shadow, but they are the shining lights and they still pale next other mediums.

I really do want to see games expand their scope but this kind of foolish posturing is nonsense and deserves ridicule.

I see no evidence that he even knows what he’s talking about or has real reasons for saying it other than posturing.

I must now hate Pat & Mr O’Connor for not liking Rez & Space Giraffe respectively, yet I must side with Shatner for loving Tetris and Space Giraffe.

O_O

Peter doesn’t like The Godfather either

“I’ve never played SotC.”

…

All hope is lost.

The word best associated with Godfather III is “shit”.

I’m with you on Tetris. It’s amazing.

For those that are interested:

1) Tetris
2) DRoD (KDD edition)
3) Space Giraffe

You can try all of those games for free and DRoD’s free demo (and one of the most ingenious games I’ve ever played) will probably keep you quiet for weeks before you get to the end of it!

Ico, SotC and Rez are also quite good games.

/waits for Pat to say something like “I really ought to play Rez but never got around to it”

It’s just unfortunate some many of those stories are pants.

“OK, I’m feeling quite uncomfortable now.

That’s two separate news stories where O’conner is echoing similar sentiments to me. His referencing of Ico, Rez and SotC is uncanny. I call shenanigans.”

Rez, Ico, and Shadow of the Colossus are my favourite games of the the last generation, and easily amongst my favourite games in the entire history of the medium, *because* of their story-telling approach.

It might surprise you that when I post, my opinions are based on my own personal, usually well researched thoughts, and not always deliberate attempts to troll fanboys to elevate my ego. I’m as capable of agreeing with people as I am of disagreeing with them; it doesn’t matter who they are, you included.

That’s two separate news stories where O’conner is echoing similar sentiments to me. His referencing of Ico, Rez and SotC is uncanny. I call shenanigans.

I’m going for a lie down.

There are already example of good storytelling in the medium if you know where to look. They might be a dime a dozen, but then again, so are decent movies.

Rez. Ico. Shadow of the Colossus. Three examples off the top of my head. Artistic, intelligent, minimalist, but intelligent in how they drag the player into the messages they are trying to convey, which is the defining point of real art, surely?

Why Peter feels the need for the greatest gaming stories to be compared to a mafia movie is beyond me. That’s like saying a drawing has to look like the Mona Lisa to be real art.

Narrative needs to find its place in games. Just like the plot and narrative structure of a movie is bound by different constraints than of a book, so a game is another medium with different constraints.

Knowing what works within the constraints of the medium makes the world of difference. I didn’t particularly enjoy reading the lengthy passages of text in the dream sequences in Lost Odyssey and gained little from them. On the other hand, the slight, almost invisible plotting and characterisation in games like Ico, Shadow of the Colossus and even Rez work with their medium to a more harmonius effect – making unique experiences that cannot be emulated in any other medium.

In other words, Mr. Molyneux, it’s different than the movie-experience but not necessarily better.