Kitase – FFXIII to use “100 percent” of PS3′s “power”

Articles that the reason they came out with the NXE feature of installing games was to reduce the amount of effort the 360 used to run the disk and overheat.

what have you been readin’?

Yes… DVD drives create huge amounts of heat. HUGE.

It’s to stop the bloody awful DVD drive noise. Always has been.

Well microsoft isnt going to come right out and say that its also going to help the RROD right? i mean do they even talk about it or even acknowledge that it exists?

People know that this was a way that they were looking to remedy the red ring situation.

Has nothing to do with MS. Has to do with anyone that knows the slightest bit about electronics.

You need to put down the conspiracy books. Here, I’ll give you something to work with instead… apparently NXE changed some of the fault codes from 3RL (RRoD) to 1RL (E74 etc). 1RL isn’t covered by the three year warranty.

“Articles that the reason they came out with the NXE feature of installing games was to reduce the amount of effort the 360 used to run the disk and overheat.

what have you been readin’?”

Not those articles. Who wrote them and where are they? On any proper games site? Like IGN, 1UP, Gamespot, Eurogamer etc? Got a link? I’ve never ever heard that before.

Its known that the red ring is caused by overheating right?

Installing a game to the harddrive causes less heat right?

1 + 1 = 2. Come on, lets not be so dense about it.

once again Michael and I have managed to change the freakin topic once again.

The drive doesn’t cause enough extra heat to make any difference whatsoever. Or is there any proof of this?

You know what. you win. The 360 is a flawless piece of hardware. I dont even know why people say it breaks down, or what RROD even means.

Didn’t say it was, did I? How did you get from me asking you a question to me implying that the 360 is flawless?

I’m just asking you to offer some kind of evidence to back up your claim. As I said, I never heard of it before and am interested to see some proof.

Something wrong in your head SERAPHEMZ. The 360 has always been a fucked piece of hardware and RRoD is a massive problem… but when you’re wrong, you’re wrong.

The thermal output of a DVD drive is negligible and shutting it off wouldn’t make the slightest difference to a 360 dying or not. That’s ignoring the fact that RRoD is caused by thermal expansion / contraction, basically the motherboard expanding as it heats up and then contracting as it cools causing cracks in the solder over time. You can overheat a 360 as much as you like, chances are you wont kill it that way unless the solder was already failing (I’ve tried).

You might have these options for why they added the install to NXE.

1: People complained about DVD drive noise all the time. This fixes that.
2: DVD drives wear out, that costs MS if they die within a year. This fixes that.
3: They wanted this functionality in place for future games to require full installs.

Ignoring all of that, it’s easy enough to test. Stick a thermometer at the back of a 360 and measure the average temp output for the same game installed vs not.

you’re both wrong. NXE came out to fix RROD by making you look like a fool with your shiny new avatar. This in turn made you not want to turn on your xbox anymore. RROD fixed.

“Its known that the red ring is caused by overheating right?”

Numerous factors caus the Red Ring of Death. It’s like the Blue Screen of Death, even the smallest, most insignificant thing causes it, be it a slightly worn wire or an overheated circuit.

The simple fact of the matter is that the Xbox 360 (at least the earlier models anyway) is a shoddily made piece of hardware. I’ve never denied that.

“But arent 360 people installing games now to avoid the RROD?”

Yes, hard-disc installs probably do help reduce RRoD occurrences, simply by the fact that its less strain on the hardware, but I’m not sure why you’re even bringing this up. What does any of this have to do with the RRoD? This isn’t about the Xbox 360. Just because I pointed out deficiencies of the PS3 does not make me an Xbox 360 fanboy, and what you’re doing is usually logical fallacy to shift the conversation from the original point.

MY point was that this “50% of the PS3′s power” claim was bollocks, and that’s all I responded to, other than my thoughts on the game itself.

You’re the one who brought up the 360 and the RRoD, side-lining the criticisms I made about the PS3′s own deficiencies. I’m not the one shifting the conversation. You are.

“And who is to say that if MGS4 was on the 360 it wouldn’t have had installs, and been on multiple disks.”

It probably would be on multiple discs, but it would not require installs. Why? Because the only games on the 360 that REQUIRE installs are game that actually need to read and write data from a hard-drive to work. The only game I can think of off the top of my head on the console that require that is FFXI. Seeing as its an MMORPG and needs to read and write data from the game’s servers constantly, that’s understandable.

MGS4 does not require a hard-drive to play. The only reason the PS3 (and MGS4) has game installations is because of the Blu-ray player’s slow read speed; if these games weren’t installed on the hard-drive, load times would be vastly longer.

Example: DMC4 on the 360, each section loads in about 5 seconds. DMC4 on the PS3, without a hard-drive install, each section loads in about 20 seconds. With a HDD install, sections load at the same speed as on the PS3.

The only one coming across as a fanboy is yourself. Any criticism of the PS3 that you see you automatically turn into a “Lets insult the 360 because we can’t actually argue against the PS3′s own failing” argument by you.

I’m well aware of both consoles failings and benefits – my favourite game of last year just so happens to be a PS3 game, BTW – but in case you didn’t know, this news post was about the PS3. The 360′s hardware problems has nothing to do with the PS3′s technical failings, and has nothing to do with the argue, so how about *you* stay on topic, sir?

It’s telling how this story has been leapt on by the MDF (love that acronym!). It’s not even a 360 story!

Anecdotally speaking, I install my 360 games as I happen to have a noisy drive in my unit. I love installing games. LOVE IT. I do it on all the PS3 games I possibly can since I got a whopper of a hard disk and I’d do it more on my 360 if I had the disk space to do so.

Ironically, on my PC I’m growing increasingly fond of portable programs that can run without being installed.

Oh, one last thing:

Michael O’conner meme is failing at Michael O’conner meme.

I thought my post was long… but I was beaten handily by Mr O’Connor.

“I thought my post was long… but I was beaten handily by Mr O’Connor.”

You’re welcome. I think.

A person shouldn’t debate a topic if they 1) can’t stick to the topic, or 2) can’t actually be bothered to debate the point.

There’s nothing worse than a fanboy calling someone else a fanboy. Criticism doesn’t always = cynicism.

LOL CANT DEBATE IF ITS TEW LAWNG TO REED NOOHB.

“LOL CANT DEBATE IF ITS TEW LAWNG TO REED NOOHB.”

Yeah, imagine a debate actually have… you know… facts and explained answers in them. Crazy thought, amirite? Length doesn’t change the weight of the argument if the point are valid. Not my fault if some ADD kid is too lazy to read the responses and arguments to the points they brought up.

tl’dr version: PWNED LULZ N00BS GO BAK TO UR MOMS BASSMENT!1!1

LOLOLOLOL YOUR WROTE LIKE 4 SENTEENCE TOO MACH FOR MEH.

Yeah, I can tell.

I fell asleep half way through your post Michael. It is known that RROD is cause by overheating. So if installing a game on harddrive causes LESS heat, wouldnt that help? Appearantly your answer is no. So lets just say its a rhetorical question on my part.

I dont know how this changed into a 360 debate, i just mentioned the fact that 360 would have to swap disks and you started with the installs and it all snowballed.

I repeat, what does the RRoD have to do with the PS3′s failing?

“I fell asleep half way through your post Michael.”

Translation: I couldn’t come up with valid arguments. How about you get back to the original point, which was the PS3′s hardware failings, which you seem intent to ignore?

“It is known that RROD is cause by overheating. So if installing a game on harddrive causes LESS heat, wouldn’t that help? Apparently your answer is no.”

If you hadn’t “fallen asleep halfway through my post”, you might have noticed the part where I said it probably does help. It helps simply by putting less strain on the hardware. So apparently, my answer is in fact “yes.”

“i just mentioned the fact that 360 would have to swap disks”

And I mentioned the inherent contradiction in Kojima’s point about this being the “next generation” of gaming, despite the fact that I have to wait about 10 minutes between every chapter in MGS4 (all because of the Blu-ray player’s failings. It might not have been half bad if it was a once off-install, which is simply just bad design on the part of Kojima’s development group), instead of simply swapping a disc, which would take 10 seconds at the most. Another point you ignored.

I didnt know that PS3′s hardware was failing like the 360…

I guess i should have stayed awake. My mistake.

The ‘next generation of gaming’ comment was done by me. Not him. I dont think that I stated he said that only that he poked fun at disk swapping.

And i do think that at one point i agreed with you on the point of installs. I hate them too, and im with you one that point. I dont see why they can all be like Uncharted or other great games that dont need installs.

I love it when people quote someone they disagree with and precede it with “Translation:”

You’re always guaranteed a neutral and well balanced piece of discourse and not the ramblings of a man determined to argue with anyone – even if it’s himself.

Let’s watch and see what he does next!

“I didnt know that PS3’s hardware was failing like the 360…”

I didn’t mean the hardware itself was shoddy (only a fool would deny the 360′s isn’t), but it has it’s own strengths and failings, just like any piece of hardware does. In this case, the Blu-ray’s player’s crap access speeds, which is the ONLY reason HDD installs exist on the PS3.

“And i do think that at one point i agreed with you on the point of installs. I hate them too, and im with you one that point. I dont see why they can all be like Uncharted or other great games that dont need installs.”

I didn’t noticed you admitting that anywhere, but at least you concede the fact now.

Given the choice, I will always buy a multi-format title on the 360, simply because I’m not being forced to use of space on my HDD simply to play the title. That and the superior control work in its favour for me.

You keep mentioning that, i have never hear that about the blu-ray access speed.

And i would rather play it on a machine that wont break down… tomatoe…tomato.

“which is the ONLY reason HDD installs exist on the PS3″

There speaks a man who clearly knows all there is to know about memory management and data streaming. Or, possibly, he’s full of shit and hasn’t got the first clue about game development beyond which box of circuits he favours and making up ‘facts’ to suit his agenda.

Anyone unfamiliar with the benefits of data cacheing would be wise to play games like Ninja Gaiden on the original Xbox or even Google terms like “pagefile”. Hell, they might just want to take a gander at the term “browser cache” for an idea. Unfortunately, none of those have anything to do with Blu Ray so O’conner may need to fabricate some new ‘facts’ to ram his anaemic understanding of hardware and industry down the throats of anyone with the nerve to present a different view to his own.

Let’s watch and see what he does next!

I have money that he wont reply to you Shatner…

Your money is safe SERAPHEMZ.

O’conner is very proud to be running a script that allows him to completely blank out anyone he deems as not worth speaking to.

Of course, this amazing self-proclaimed expert on all things related to game development, programming and industry didn’t write the 100 line script himself. He downloaded it from a website and followed instructions from someone else on how to use it.

But, you know, someone who can’t write 100 lines of simple code (or apply it without the guidance of others) is clearly in a very good position to dictate to everyone else how complex console software development is done. And remember: the PS3 is difficult to program on. Right?

Right

Still, whilst he’s ‘cleverly’ ignoring me it gives me carte blanche to ridicule him and show him up for the pompous agenda-fuelled know-nothing he truly is.

Thanks O’conner!

Let’s watch and see what he does next! My money’s on selective quoting (without sources) of ‘facts’.

“You keep mentioning that, i have never hear that about the blu-ray access speed. ”

Then you should do more research before trying to some research, or actually admit you’re wrong when someone shows some facts to prove you so. In the entire time you spend installing games on your PS3, you never once wondered why your didn’t have to install those same games on the 360?

The Blu-ray player on the PS3 is only a 2x-speed player. It has a maximum a read speed about 9MB of data a second, and current Blu-Ray players also cannot alter their read speed like most modern DVD players can. The 360′s earliest DVD drive was a 12x speed DVD drive, which could read up to 15MB of data a second (that’s almost twice as fast), whilst later models have an even faster drive, capable of 20MB a second. This is why some games seem slower or faster on different 360s.

Not many consoles games store any data on the hard-drive during play, and if they do, that space is already set aside for use. Again, the *only* reason games are installed on the PS3′s HDD is to speed up loading times. Otherwise, they would require installations on the 360 as well.

“And i would rather play it on a machine that wont break down…”

So would I, but I’m clearly lucky. I’ve had my 360 for nearly 2 years without a single problem. But I’ve already admitted that the 360 is a shoddily made piece of hardware away. You know… being the big 360 fanboy that I am, right?

The 360′s failing doesn’t excuse the PS3′s, nor does it excuse the whole point I was originally making – you can’t lecture about how stupid it is to have to swap a disc, when the alternative (installing games) takes even longer. MGS4 is probably the *worst* victim of this, because it reinstalls each chapter *every single time* you move between chapters.

There’s absolutely no excuse for not having a flat-once off install at the least. That’s something video games haven’t had to do since 1986.

Ninja Gaiden (and a few others) did it on the original Xbox actually. But, you know, let’s ignore stuff like that whilst you’re flouncing around making grandiose claims!

“Ninja Gaiden (and a few others) did it on the original Xbox actually.”

The difference being that the original Xbox came with a HDD in every model, so they could rely on it to benefits their games. That storage space was automatically set aside for those games, completely inaccessible to the users to store their own data, and it was quite a limited amount of space at that, which was regularly overwritten should another game requiring HDD access need it.

The 360 does not have the luxury of universal HDD support, a choice that Microsoft made themselves, so developers do not have the same luxury of relying on the HDD to benefits their games as they did with the original Xbox. Why do you think a HDD is required to play backwardly compatible games on the 360 in the first place?

But, you know, let’s ignore stuff like that whilst you’re flouncing around making grandiose claims!

*goes back to blocking you*

Also, if its a fact that the bluray player is slow and PS3 NEEDS installs, why do games like Uncharted look as great as they do and have NO installs. Would it have something to do with the Developer making the game that way?

Installs > Disk swapping, IMO. I can stay seated on my couch during install.

AHAHAHAHAHA

I BROKE HIM!

“The difference being that the original Xbox came with a HDD in every model, so they could rely on it to benefits their games. That storage space was automatically set aside for those games, completely inaccessible to the users to store their own data, and it was quite a limited amount of space at that, which was regularly overwritten should another game requiring HDD access need it.”

Yes folks, according to O’conner, limiting access to your own hardware is of benefit to you. Want to put music, videos or any sort of content on your hard disk? NO! Hard disks are only for game data! BAD USER!

Oh, unless the hard disk in question is being filled with game data for a PS3 game. That’s when it’s completely unacceptable for game developers to use the standard hardware inside a games console for storing games data. No benefit to anyone AT ALL.

Particularly not in-denial 360-fanboys with no sense of humour and a tragi-comic lack of perspective!

Oh Michael, could you be any more of a farce? You’re totally incapable of understanding your topic, sticking to your own ‘principles’ and showing any sort of consistency (can you say “Batman The Dark Knight on Blu Ray”?)

I love your petty “*goes back to blocking you*”. You’re so much funnier when you’re sulking.

Good god, are you guys still going?

Well, O’conner keeps on making such a silly billy out of himself and I feel I owe it to the world to ridicule his pompous ignorance whenever it suits me.

He offers such a rich resource of twattishness that it’s kind of an embarassment of riches really!

/girlish giggle

“Also, if its a fact that the bluray player is slow and PS3 NEEDS installs, why do games like Uncharted look as great as they do and have NO installs. Would it have something to do with the Developer making the game that way?”

Because Uncharted is clearly a much better coded game than those other titles. As a huge fan of the game myself, it’s definitely one of the shining titles on the format, and it oozes technical excellence from its every pore.

I just pointed out to the factual data-reading speeds of the drives in both formats. Are you actually going to completely ignore them because they kill your argument? If you think they’re inaccurate, go ring up Sony Microsoft and ask them for the technical specification of their hardware yourself.

“Installs > Disk swapping, IMO. I can stay seated on my couch during install.”

Well, thank fuck we’re not all as lazy as you then. I’d rather strain my back for five seconds to change a disc than sit and watch Snake smoking a cigarettes for 8 minutes straight…

“Yes folks, according to O’conner, limiting access to your own hardware is of benefit to you. Want to put music, videos or any sort of content on your hard disk? NO! Hard disks are only for game data! BAD USER!”

Almost every single piece of computer tech with a storage medium in the last 10 years does this, be it your Xbox, Xbox 360 (this only became an issue with NXE, mind you, and still doesn’t apply to games) PS3, and even your PC, puts aside otherwise inaccessible hard-disc space for critical system operations. Otherwise it wouldn’t even be able to run. The amount of space depends entirely on the device, obviously.

I know exactly what virtual memory and pagefiles and all that jazz are, you douche. That still doesn’t change the fact that 1GB installs for a game exist on one format but not another, with the only technical limitation of the PS3 causing it is the disc-speed rate. Developers have admitted this themselves, and if you weren’t trying to be such a rampant troll, you wouldn’t ignore this fact

The PC has an excuse because of the nature of its games, and because they’ve had proper storage devices since the 80s. The PS3 and Xbox 360′s games do not.

“im trying to get this post to a 100 as well… almost there.. Michael should be here soon to make it 87….”

Once again ignoring every single point that proves you wrong, because you can’t back up your poorly reseached

im trying to get this post to a 100 as well… almost there.. Michael should be here soon to make it 87….

Edit after 87th post…
LOL… i knew it !!

2nd edit after READING Michaels post
Why are you ignoring Shatner ??

Because he kills your argument.

I dont pretend to know the specifics of disk speeds and all that crap. I just know that games can be done without installs.

Maybe FF13 will too, but can it be done in one disk is the important question??

OOH! A below-the-belt move by O’conner there with a personal insult about assumed laziness. See, O’conner is a BETTER PERSON THAN YOU because he owns a 360 and is prepared to stand up and flounce across the room to insert the next disc of some game.

Can SERAPHEMZ recover from this? Will O’conner’s descent into personal remarks gather momentum?

Let’s watch and find out!

Snake smoking a cig was funny. And informative.

You may think so SERAPHEMZ. But if you’re the sort of person that acts like he knows everything about everything then it’s got no useful information to offer you, has it.

You could be doing something useful in that time. Like swapping disks. Or arguing on the internet. Or trying to run a ‘me too’ gaming news blog.

LOL !!! Damn, you got me there Shatner. I did miss your othercommentsbeforelol but these are funnier.

7 more to go.. where did michael go? did he just ignore you Shatner?

O’conner is ignoring me (or not, as the case may be! – mental note: say something about hypocrisy here) because I’m a worthless troll with nothing to say that he wants to hear. It’s kinda funny because he first started dictated to everyone else “Oh, just ignore him” but then proved to everyone else he was incapable of following his own advice (mental note 2: say something more about hypocrisy here) and kept on moping around until someone else gave him a script to help him ignore someone he didn’t like. This was, of course, after making repeated comments to try to get me removed from the site. It’s all over the site and dotted around the forums too.

As much as i have quickly grown to love shatner. i must defend o’conner’s claim of dvd read spead superiority. BUT SINCE I DO LOVE SHATNER I MUST POINT OUT that unfortunately that same non uniform read speed on xbox 360 is what keeps game’s like uncharted from being made on the platform. I believe I read somewhere that blu ray’s consistent read rate, although lower, is what allows for games to have absolutely zero loading times and look totally bad ass like uncharted and killzone 2. PUTTING SO MUCH SANTANCE IN PURAGRUPH IS HARDZ FOR ME DONT LAFF!!!

And just a few points to prove those facts, since you’re more interested in being a troll than proving a point.

http://blogcritics.org/archives/2008/02/08/042506.php

“Some are saying waiting 25 minutes to only scratch 5GB of cache data to the PS3 hard drive seems excessively long, compared to read/write times on modern PCs where a single-sided DVD could be copied to a hard drive in just a few minutes or less. This could be because of the relatively slower speed of 2.5″ hard drives like the ones used in the PS3 and laptops (5400RPMs versus the 7200RPMs or 10000RPMs of 3.5″ desktop hard drives) combined with the also somewhat slower read time of the early Blu-Ray drives compared to well developed DVD-ROMs in modern PCs and the Xbox 360.

Others are concerned that this will become a prevalent trend [edit by Michael: it did] designed for the betterment of the end user, but will end up eating up too much hard drive space to make owning more than a dozen games prohibitive.”

http://multiplayerblog.mtv.com/2008/04/01/the-mystery-behind-playstation-3s-sometimes-mandatory-installations-as-far-as-we-know/

“The PS3 version of “Lost Planet” requires installs, too. As does “Lost: Via Domus” and “Hot Shots Golf” from Sony. But “Dark Sector” and many other PS3 releases don’t.

The issue arises from differences in the reading techniques of DVD and Blu-ray. By nature, the outer and inner parts of a disc move at different speeds while a disc is spinning, regardless of format (CD, DVD, Blu-ray, HD-DVD, etc.). While DVD drives can read data at those differing speeds, Blu-ray reads at one speed. Combine that with the extremely large size of Blu-ray discs, and simply dumping existing DVD data onto a Blu-ray disc will inevitably result in longer load times.

Installations are a way around this issue.”

Official Playstation Magazine had an interview with Chief software architect at Eutechnyx, Dr Andrew Perella:

“The biggest benefit of loading data from hard drive as opposed to Blue-ray is that the seek times are lower. Games that make use of lot of user customisations are hit hard by this as the developer cannot know ahead of time what will need to be loaded”

Industry experts along with accurate hardware specifications = assumptions and made up facts? If that’s what makes you believe you’re right (even thought it’s been proven that you’re not) you go right on ahead and believe that. You might want to work off that belly you’ll no doubt grow while you’re at it, since you’re apparently too lazy to even get up off the couch to change a a disc.

STOP HITTING MY FACE WITH WALLS O CONNOR IT ALREADY FEELS LIKE THE WHITE HOUSE IN INDEPENDANCE DAYUH.

lelik! I.. I.. I don’t know what to say. I’m flattered of course. But, well, this is all so unexpected. And sudden. I’m still a bit raw from the torrid make-up sex me and PsychoText indulged in recently so, I hope you don’t mind, but I’ll have to ask you to take your time, go slowly and be gentle.

“I believe I read somewhere that blu ray’s consistent read rate, although lower, is what allows for games to have absolutely zero loading times and look totally bad ass like uncharted and killzone 2.”

That argument has nothing to back itself up. A DVD can read data a consistent speed if it wants to – as an old example: CDs actually *have* to be slowed down to a specific speed to play the music on them correctly). What kind of warp logic dictates that a slower read speed can make for zero load times? It can either read the data fast enough, or it can’t. The PS3′s Blu-ray is slower than the DVD drive in the 360, so ergo, it cannot. The HDD drive on the PS3, on the other hand, can, which is why all the data gets dumped on it.

That depends entirely on the quality of the DVD disc used and the programming of the game itself (ever notice how shop-bought DVDs can be really unreliable?). The reason those games you mentioned don’t require HDD installs is because they’re well programmed, it’s that simply. And I’m certainly not going to discount the quality of those two titles; they’re two of the most technically marvellous games of this generation.

WAHEY! O’conner’s getting increasingly snippy!

Maybe it’s time for his insulin?

POST 99!

GO SERAPHEMZ! TAKE THE GLORY!!!!!!!

I can’t go slow, but i promise it will be over quick.