Suit: Microsoft knew Xbox 360 could damage discs

My fiancee’s father should sue Alfa Romeo. I mean, they totally knew that bumping a concrete wall will scratch the paint surface of the car!

I had no idea that putting mini pizzas into my CD player would cause irreparable damage!

Those aren’t fair comparisons, just silly ones, and poorly considered at that (hadn’t expected that from you, Blerk). There are quality optical drives for laptops which could take a spin in the air without damaging the disc. There are drives that can handle laptops being moved around and handled at all angles when writing and the disc wold still be fine, even. I’d actually like to see how the PS3 fares in this case, as I’m not sure how good their optical drive is.

I’m not really surprised about this though, the XBox 360 has been an ongoing story of cost-cutting madness that’s resulted in bad news for consumers. This is just the latest chapter. I suppose it all comes down to the old axiom – you get what you pay for.

But that’s a pointless comparison too. Laptops are designed to be moved around while they’re on, that’s what they’re for. 360s are designed to sit under your telly – the fact that they weigh about 8 tons should be something of a giveaway. If you’re stupid enough to try and move it around while the disc is spinning then you really do deserve all you get.

The 360 dooesn’t weigh much at all, the original XBox did.

And is it too hard to assume that someone, while playing a game, might decide that their XBox is getting too hot and might decide to move it? Overheating leads people to reposition their consoles, most likely, and that leads to damaged discs. It’s a vicious circle if you ask me. But like I said, Microsoft gave people a perfectly valid reason to move their console around.

They should have built it better so that it doesn’t overheat so much, or they should have realised that it’d likely be moved due to overheating and equipped it as not to do damage when it is moved.

Yes, it is too hard to assume. It’s fucking stupid. Turn the bloody thing off first.

That’s naive. How many people do you think are going to turn a console off just to adjust its position a little? People expect it to be more sturdy than that.

“Oh noes, my console is going to explode if I don’t turn it off before moving it first!”

Like I said, this screams poor quality, nothing else.

I’m pretty sure it says in the instructions not to move it when it’s switched on. It also says this on most DVD players.

That’s fair enough, chris (though the expensive DVD player I have came with no such warning, and I’ve moved it plenty without damage to any of the discs I’ve put in it). But as I said, the average person may get worried and move the unit because it’s overheating. It’s just folly on Microsoft’s part to create a situation that would lead to this outcome.

It’s just my opinion though, but then I’m stroppy about things like hardware quality, being a PC nerd.

Wait, the manufacturer of a product knew how their product operates?

Amazing!

It’s not ‘a little’, Esha. You can shift it a bit no problem. The disc scratching occurs when you turn it on it’s side – from horizontal to vertical. That’s hardly a ‘little shift’. If nothing else, you’re going to to risk pulling the cables out while you’re moving it. You’re only going to move it like that once, so why not just… you know… switch it off? Like a sane person would?

Would you move a microwave while it was plugged in and cooking your tea? What about a boiling kettle? Need to change the spark plugs in the car – why bother turning the enging off first? I’m sure it’ll all be fine.

These things are all designed to be put in place and left alone while they’re in use. If you want to move them, you turn them off. It’s not ‘cheap hardware’, it’s just common sense.

Well that’s neither here nor there really, I was just wondering how there can be a case to answer when it’s in the instructions not to move the heavy lump.

Blerk, I couldn’t have said it better even if I tried really hard.

On the other hand, some people have been used to turn their PS2 upside down to force it read the disk (or so I hear ), so, maybe, to assume there’s no harm done turning the x360 on its side isn’t too far-fetched – even if the manual prevents it (who reads those anyway, right?).

My old PS2 once fell 3 feet from a shelf and never missed a beat, i don’t think i’d try it with my ps3 though too much money to replace.
Also while we’re on the subject my wife decided to take one of my sixaxis controllers apart because the buttons were sticking, when she put it back together there were 3 pieces left over, that she said were “not needed”, needless to say 3 of the buttons no longer work. nothing that a good divorce won’t cure, although she say’s i can get a dualshock 3 in the new year, too fucking right…

Don’t take it as a defence of Microsoft, by the way – they knew of the problem, it should’ve been clearly marked so as to keep idiots safe.

Indeed, it is now – there was a peel-away sticker on the front of the drive tray of my 360 reminding me not to do this very thing. And it’s in the manual too.

The title is to ambiguous. Are you quoting a suit or is there a law suit comming?

Ooohhh… my head. It’s spining. I need a snack.

Oh, and I expected more of you Blerk.

Frozen pizzas… tsk, tsk.

They didn’t even cook. I was so disappointed.

I’ve been trying to find a video clip of this but YouTube doesn’t have one for once. So you’ll have to make do with a bit of the script:

MIKE: Well, I don’t call this a new era in televisual entertainment.

VYVYAN: Doesn’t it? Well maybe that’s what’s going wrong!

I was going to use that! Bloody thief!

Right… so why is this news?

This has to be a joke. It is in the damn instruction manual not to change its position while turned on or it may damage the disc. How can they possibly be sued over something they WARNED users about. Is it their fault idiots refuse to look over the manual? No.

I am going to go pour some hot mc donnalds coffee all over myself and sue the company. Sure, they have the warning on the label. But hell, everyone is doing it right?

Fact is: The 360 also scratches disks without the console being moved around!
I have 2 (out of 9) disks with circular scratches: Halo 3 & Bioshock. And I never, ever moved my 360! And these 2 discs were perfectly fine when I bought them new.

That is not a fact. Not once has a single game of mine been scratched. Not a single person I know has claimed their xbox has scratched their disk. Hell, I even made the mistake of tilting mine while it was on one day to check something and my disk was not scratched.

Overheating, yes, thats a XBOX issue. Scratched disks is user error. Clean your xbox.

My anecdotal evidence is greater than your anecdotal evidence!

There were plenty of reports of scratched discs in the early days of the 360, even without idiots playing ‘catch’ with their machines while they were switched on.

You don’t see it any more though, so I surmise they’ve sorted it out in the later revisions. And they’ve used so many different models of drive in it that I guess it was just ‘luck of the draw’ whether you got a dodgy one or not.

Come to think of it, why isn’t the lawsuit focussing on that rather than the more ridiculous ‘I juggled my console and it broked’ approach?

Because the 1/200,000 that scratched disks without irregular activity does not warrant a lawsuit.

And exactly how many people do you think throw their 360s around while they’re switched on?

edit: removed

“And exactly how many people do you think throw their 360s around while they’re switched on?”

The same amount of idiots who threw their wii controller at their TVs.

While I hate MS for making me buy my 3rd XBox now. I just don’t feel this law suit is legitimate. The manual has warnings not to do it.

As many as two?

I’m sure I remember a sticker on the 360 when I got mine which said do not move the box when disc is being accessed.

“Further, because the “warning” sticker must be removed in order to load a disc into the Xbox 360
ODD the first time it is operated, consumers likely forget the warning shortly after removing it, if
they ever read it at all.”

This is out of the motion. What a joke. So because these people cant follow instructions, they should be able to sue? So when I spill the mc donnalds coffee on myself I can simply say I forgot about the warning on the cup?

Sigh.

“So because these people cant follow instructions, they should be able to sue”

For the most part, people who don’t read instructions, follow them or even who make agreements usually insist they’re absolutely in the right about everything. Usually, it seems, the less people know the more convinced they know it all.

People sue anyone for anything, its that simple. When there is money to be made, you know some poor bastard is gonna be there, just waiting to file a suit!

360 fagboys rush to defend a piece of shit…now i know how psychobitch feels about morris.happy Holidays

A piece of shit would never scratch discs. It’d be too soft.

Why are people actually putting in time to defend a company which set out to screw them over? We’ve already had one whistle blower lose his job for coming out and saying that MS knew what a problem the RROD was going to be, but they had no problem releasing anyway, and had no problems charging people 80 dollars for repair, knowing full well that they were selling defective product.

We’ve now got another revelation, that in order to save 50 cents per machine, they left the machine in a state where it was prone to disc scratching.

Don’t get me wrong, MS have brought much to the industry, and gaming would be a poorer place without them, but anybody actually arguing their corner over build quality issues is a corporate stooge, end of.

theevilaires: You seem a little obsessed with morriss and I. You want in? We can make it a happy little lube triangle just for you.

I’m not saying we shouldn’t kick Microsoft up the arse over hardware cost-cutting, just that of all the things they could have picked this one seems the most likely to get thrown out of court with a standard ‘user is a moron’ stamp.

@ Robo_1
Good comment!
I fully agree.

#
Robo_1 said:

December 16th, 2008 at 4:15 pm

Why are people actually putting in time to defend a company which set out to screw them over? We’ve already had one whistle blower lose his job for coming out and saying that MS knew what a problem the RROD was going to be, but they had no problem releasing anyway, and had no problems charging people 80 dollars for repair, knowing full well that they were selling defective product.

We’ve now got another revelation, that in order to save 50 cents per machine, they left the machine in a state where it was prone to disc scratching.

Don’t get me wrong, MS have brought much to the industry, and gaming would be a poorer place without them, but anybody actually arguing their corner over build quality issues is a corporate stooge, end of.

give this man an award now! you’re a smart guy robo i like that kind of talk on this site a fresh breath of air if you will :p

I will be quick to defend any company in light of a law suit like this. If you want to talk about the common hardware failure, fine. lets complain about it as im on my third xbox.

Fact is, there was a warning not to do this. It was well known it would ruin a disk, so the user should be smart enough not to do it. You know your coffee is hot when you get it, dont spill it on yourself. This is a bogus law suit and if it succeeds, this is a bogus law system here in the US.

“360 fagboys rush to defend a piece of shit…now i know how psychobitch feels about morris.happy Holidays”

You are an idiot. I have all 3 consoles. How I feel about each one has nothing to do with the fact some lazy bastard who doesnt have a job shouldnt be able to sue a company over not reading his manual or ‘forgetting’ the warning he read on the cd drive.

I only got my 360 in August and I don’t remember there being a sticker on it/covering the disc tray warning me, or it being in the manual either. I definitely read the manual to see if I could learn of any small feature that I may find useful but friends had overlooked and almost definitely skipped the warnings (definitely don’t remember anything about moving the xbox whilst on with a disc in).

I do, however, have a brain with some common sense and completely agree that anyone who is stupid enough to rotate their 360 whilst it is on, deserves a scratched disc (that becomes unreadable with any luck)

As I recall it’s not a sticker as such, it’s a clear plastic seal with writing on it which covers the DVD tray.

edit – yeah, here it is: http://i44.tinypic.com/2ypho41.jpg

It is, yeah. I remember it being on my launch model, my replacement launch model and my 60Gb Falcon.

Launch models did not have the plastic seal over the tray. They did however, and still do, have the warning in the manual.

IMPORTANT
To avoid jamming the disc drive and damaging
discs or the console:
• Remove discs before moving the console or
tilting it between the horizontal and
vertical positions.

As a 360 owner since they first came out, I have never had a scratched disk, then again im smart enough to know you shouldnt move the system from horizontal to vertical while playing a game, playing a DVD, or Audio Cd.