Mon, Nov 10, 2008 | 09:22 GMT

Capps: “We really need to make strides against the secondhand market”

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Epic boss Mike Capps has told GI that secondhand game sales are a “huge” issue in the US, and he believes the American development industry will start making moves to combat it.

“I think DLC will be increasing in scope just because in the US we really need to make strides against the second-hand market,” he said.

Capps said that models involving restricting content to those who bought the retail product new are being mooted.

“The secondary market is a huge issue in the United States. Our primary retailer makes the majority of its money off of secondary sales, and so you’re starting to see games taking proactive steps toward that by… if you buy the retail version you get the unlock code,” he said.

“I’ve talked to some developers who are saying ‘If you want to fight the final boss you go online and pay USD 20, but if you bought the retail version you got it for free’. We don’t make any money when someone rents it, and we don’t make any money when someone buys it used – way more than twice as many people played Gears than bought it.”

More through there.

204 comments

#151

Truk
13/11/08, 6:02 pm

I refuse to take the internet seriously unless I’m drunk.

#152

Shatner
13/11/08, 6:07 pm

Psychotext: wilfully ignorant

Foolish boy.

#153

Psychotext
13/11/08, 6:11 pm

Choosing to avoid discourse with a person incapable of accepting the validity of the views of others isn’t ignorance, it’s good sense.

#154

Shatner
13/11/08, 6:15 pm

Willfully ignoring someone = wilful ignorance

See, I just proved my worth by directing you to a useful thing like Greasemonkey and userscripts.org so you’re attempt to tar me as someone that couldn’t possibly be worth listening to is undermined by the fact that you’re taking my advice.

So, seeing as you’ve proved that point for me, you can see how choosing to ignore someone who can be such a rich resource of useful information is the same as choosing to be ignorant.

= wilful ignorance.

Sorry Psycho, stick with guessing numbers. Logic and psychoanalysis ain’t your strong point.

Of course, you could just ignore me – but you clearly incapable of moderating yourself and even less capable of admitting it.

What was that about admitting to being wrong Psycho? You’ve had a whole heap of chances recently and you’ve missed them all.

Shame :(

#155

Psychotext
13/11/08, 6:21 pm

You can be useful yet still be an insufferable arsehole Shatner. The fact that you’re still in employment should have given you a clue to that (yes, insults).

You claim to be so much better than all of us – yet every time you lose the handle on an argument you instantly switch the subject or switch to insults. See this very thread.

Your assumption that I, or anyone else cares what your opinion of them is just further proves how self obsessed you are. If your true mental condition is as demonstrated in this thread I would seriously consider talking to a specialist… and that’s not an insult, that’s genuine concern for another person.

#156

Shatner
13/11/08, 6:27 pm

“You claim to be so much better than all of us”

I do? Where was this? I must’ve missed it.

I do so hope you’re not putting words into my mouth and then chastising me for things I haven’t said. Reeks of an inferiority complex.

Still, please continue with the personal attacks. You’re really showing everyone what a much better person you are.

I dunno – you’ve got an excuse for everything haven’t you? You can’t ignore me – but that’s my fault apparently, not yours. You’ll take my advice but then tell me that I must be ignored. Then you’ll criticise me based on things I never said.

Awesome work Psycho. It’s good that we’ve got such upstanding and attentive people around to put matters straight and not just go off on one on the internet and rant at someone whilst trying to say that they’re better than people that rant on the internet.

You’re a funny guy, you know that?

“Your assumption that I, or anyone else cares what your opinion of them is just further proves how self obsessed you are”

So stop replying! Jesus man, it’s so simple and easy!

I don’t ask for this attention but you keep on speaking to me. As I’ve said elsewhere today, I don’t believe STFU is a constructive response so I don’t use it.

But please, stop making excuses and blaming me for all your little internet issues.

If you don’t care, stop acting like you do.

Actions speak louder than words Psycho. Stop making silly excuses and walk the walk.

#157

MesserWolf
13/11/08, 7:02 pm

OMG this is like the king of all flames !!

Lool X)

#158

Alpha Male Stu
13/11/08, 7:24 pm

Not qualified. That’s brilliant.

#159

morriss
13/11/08, 10:37 pm

I reckon it’s neglect. Must’ve been tough.

#160

Shatner
14/11/08, 8:32 am

Still talking about me eh?

I think morriss is obsessed.

#161

morriss
14/11/08, 8:34 am

Abuse? Physical or psychological?

#162

Shatner
14/11/08, 8:41 am

Yup. Definitely obsessed.

What a terrible, terrible example of a games “journalist”. Biased, unprofessional, antagonistic and immature.

Please continue to show what a fabulous and profession person you are by targeting individuals in the comments of the site you write for. It makes you look really good!

#163

morriss
14/11/08, 8:44 am

If you ever want to chat, you know, let it all out, you’ve got my email. I mean, it might be better to talk in private rather than use the comments on a videogames forum as a catharsis for your incessant need.

I’ll understand if you don’t want to though. I’m sure whatever it is, is really embarrassing.

#164

Shatner
14/11/08, 8:47 am

As I’ve already said morriss, for all Shatner enquiries please email shatner@spacegiraffeisbetterthangearsofwar.com

#165

morriss
14/11/08, 8:52 am

Classic denial again. Shame. Well, my hand is extended, should you need it. I just hope you’re not alone this Christmas, suicide rates are always highest around that time. Please post in January just so I know that you haven’t done the inevitable.

#166

Shatner
14/11/08, 9:02 am

Morriss, you’re becoming curiously embarrassing to yourself and this site.

If you had any dignity or professionalism you’d know when to stop.

You’re really not doing yourself or your profession any favours.

Don’t forget:
shatner@spacegiraffeisbetterthangearsofwar.com

#167

morriss
14/11/08, 9:06 am

My “profession”?! You know so little. It’s touching.

Oh well, I tried. But I suppose after years and years of hardship and prejudice against your condition you have to develop a thick skin to survive.

#168

Shatner
14/11/08, 9:15 am

I’m tired of you embarrassing yourself through my efforts. I’ll continue to reply to every silly and purile post you make here just because I know you’re too far down your ridiculous trolling journey to back down.

I remain professional in all my work. You’re just being an antagonist Microsoft-funded troll at the same place you expect to have your writings taken seriously.

Please keep replying, I have another 16 hour day ahead of me so I’ll be happy to watch you burn the remaining shreds of your credibility with minimal effort from me.

You are to VG247 what Denis Dyack is to Silicon Knights.

#169

morriss
14/11/08, 9:19 am

Coming from Mr. “You’re Not Qualified!” :D

“Wake up and smell what you shovellin’” Do Free Radical know this is how you represent the company on the internet? Or have they read your file?

#170

G1GAHURTZ
14/11/08, 9:19 am

You two know how to solve this dispute, don’t you.

You gotta have a play off!

3 mulitplayer games, and the winner is teh winar!

One game chosen by Shatatatat, one chosen by morrrrisss, and one chosen by the the public.

Whoever wins is right, and whoever loses is wrong!

mwahahahaha!!!

#171

morriss
14/11/08, 9:20 am

I just want to him to write more. More and more and more. Write and write and write. All day, every day. I love it.

#172

G1GAHURTZ
14/11/08, 9:24 am

See if you can get to 500 comments!

#173

Shatner
14/11/08, 9:28 am

Oh dear morriss, you’re put another guess on the line.

You seem to know everything about me! More than I could possibly know about myself!

How could I know what I do for a living better than you?

The saddest thing is, although you don’t know anything about me, you genuinely believe you word about me is more accurate than mine.

Delusional.

Please keep embarrassing yourself on the website you write for. Your actions make a lot of sense and are of sound judgement!

Good idea G1G, but I wouldn’t play morriss because I know he cheats and then sulks when you accuse him of cheating. I only game with gamers I trust.

#174

morriss
14/11/08, 9:30 am

It’s not a guess though. Nice try. But “we” know who you are. That’s where you fail, and have always failed and continue to fail. Now I sound like your carers. Sorry.

#175

Shatner
14/11/08, 9:33 am

Of course it’s not a guess morriss.

If you say something then it must be the truth! Especially if it’s about people you know nothing about! Your word is truth and anyone who defies your word is wrong by default.

This is what happens when you give a bit of power to a forum troll: God complex.

#176

morriss
14/11/08, 9:37 am

God complex and troll?

See, I just proved my worth by directing you to a useful thing like Greasemonkey and userscripts.org so you’re attempt to tar me as someone that couldn’t possibly be worth listening to is undermined by the fact that you’re taking my advice.”

That’s just one example of your crass, supercilious spasms. You really need to stop this displacement. Acceptance is the first step. It’s a long, hard road, but together we can do it.

#177

Shatner
14/11/08, 9:42 am

Heh. Yes. It was someone else that directing PS to Greasemonkey and Userscripts.org. You’re right, I should never have claimed credit for doing that when it was.. oh, hang about.. it WAS me that directing him there! Imagine the nerve of someone taking credit for something they did!

And he following the directions I gave him. Thus following my advice to help solve the problem he expressed.

Yup. I must have completely got that wrong. People following people’s advice is TOTALLY not the same as, er, people following people’s advice.

Wow. You got me over a barrel there. What a fabulous example you chose!

I think you need rebooting. Your logic circuits aren’t working properly :P

#178

morriss
14/11/08, 9:46 am

…and so the insanity starts. It’s unbelievable how you can’t see, even when it’s highlighted for you, what an utter cretin you make yourself out to be, day after day, post after post.

I’ve heard from a few of your colleagues that although quiet, you’re an ok guy, but you’ve really got to work on the “I’m an absolute fucking knobend” posting style you have.

#179

patlike
14/11/08, 9:51 am

Best thread ever. A new high.

#180

Truk
14/11/08, 9:52 am

It really is a sterling example of the best of the internet.

#181

G1GAHURTZ
14/11/08, 9:53 am

I hope they reach 500 comments.

Lets encourage them until they do it!

#182

morriss
14/11/08, 9:53 am

I’ll tell you what, you just start talking about Gears of War 2 or something to deflect attention from the fact that you won’t address any of the comments in this thread that concisely and directly disproves and ridicules your supposed “qualified” opinion. You’re quite good at that.

I’ll leave it to you to have the last “You’re not a professional, you’re letting the site down” word and let you get on with it.

It’s been fun.

#183

Truk
14/11/08, 10:07 am

#184

Shatner
14/11/08, 10:12 am

“and so the insanity starts. It’s unbelievable how you can’t see, even when it’s highlighted for you, what an utter cretin you make yourself out to be, day after day, post after post”

Yes. I’m sorry, helping out other people to solve a problem is clearly deplorable and cretinous behaviour. Instead I could have been setting a much better example by trolling, name-calling, insulting them, pretending they’re disabled, giving mock sympathy or something equally virtuous and noble.

Helping or informing others is such terrible behaviour, isn’t it morriss?! What a waste of time! Especially when some small minded person will try and hold it against you. Phew! I’ll try not to behave like that in the future, I’ve certainly learned my lesson!

Oh, and I spoke to some of your friends too. (What an amazing coincidence – we know each others friends! Amazing!). I won’t tell you what they said about you though. With friend like that…

#185

Shatner
14/11/08, 10:13 am

Anyway, we’re all agreed. Secondhand games are terrible for the industry and Space Giraffe kicks the crap out of Gears of War.

Excellent.

#186

diosoth
16/11/08, 8:02 pm

I sent this article to Vincent J. Desiderio, CEO of Running With Scissors- the guys behind the Postal games. I received this in reply;

“”"
I can go and on about how ridiculous this is…my simple answer – “If I buy something, a game, a music cd, a movie dvd, whatever-its mine and I can do whatever the fuck I want with it!”

Vince Desi, CEO
Running With Scissors

Feel free to forward my answer.
“”"

Vince Desi is in strong disagreement to Capps’ ideas. The fact he allowed me to forward his reply along means he doesn’t really mind of Capps finds out, either.

#187

patlike
16/11/08, 8:32 pm

Ooooh, lovely. I’ll do something with that tomorrow.

#188

Shatner
16/11/08, 8:49 pm

Heh, I bet you will.

#189

morriss
16/11/08, 9:00 pm

Nice one Vince!

#190

diosoth
16/11/08, 9:09 pm

An interesting idea-

Lets say Shatner ends up without a job and has to GASP sell off some of his possessions so that he can afford things like food and a roof to sleep under. Until he gets a new job, indefinitely, whatever.

How fast do you think all of his used games would be placed for sale? Or will he stick to his idiotic corporate fanboy viewpoints? That’d be funny, Shatner chosing to starve so that his favorite company can sell ONE MORE new copy of a game.

I’ll stick with the view of a game company CEO in this case. Oh, I mean Vince Desi. Mike Capps is an arrogant ass who’s been blaming consumers for lousy sales, rather than the fact they keep churning out mediocre titles. Epic was the same company that sent a CEASE AND DESIST order to someone who made a CUSTOMIZED GeOW toy, with the order he had to DESTROY it, too, even though he made only ONE COPY of this toy and gave it away!

Screw you Epic Games.

#191

Shatner
17/11/08, 9:19 am

Oh look, it seems diosoth has returned to making this topic about ME! Well, it’s nice to see what the motive was for the unverified quote. :)

And (as I already stated) whenever I’ve sold off anything game related or bought anything game related that was second hand I now for absolute certainty that the money has gone DIRECTLY into the pockets of game developers without the retail parasites getting a whiff of it.

Of course, my word about myself couldn’t possibly hold up against the accusation of anonymous people on the internet so I’m sure you will all believe whatever guesswork you like the sound of at the expense of anything factual that you don’t.

And I’ll stick with the views of veteran games journalists, veteran, wildly experienced, hugely succesful game developer[i]s[/i]. Please note that last part is plural.

Still, if you want to believe the minority simply because the majority don’t give you the answer you like the sound of then that’s up to you.

The majority and the industry trend-setters like EA will still carry on their plans and the minority view will make little difference besides letting internet whiners whine on the internet about how it’s unfair that people that make games should earn revenue from them!

Personally, I’d prefer to play Epic games rather than ones from Running With Scissors’ library. But that’s based purely on appreciation of gameplay. I’d hazard a guess that, based on gamers putting money where their mouths are, most of the gaming community feels the same.

Still, I’m sure Vince will enjoy the column inches he gets and I *know* he’ll enjoy the warm attention gamers give him simply for expressing a populist point of view.

Righty, I’m off for brunch with Mike Capps and David Braben. Ciao!

#192

morriss
17/11/08, 10:02 am

The Catharsis Continues…

#193

diosoth
24/11/08, 3:32 pm

Shatner, shut the fuck up. No one cares about your rampant company fanboy ass-kissing. Go on, admit it- if Mike Capps told you to shoot yourself, you’d do it. If you’re so gung-ho to stop people from selling their personal used copies, then you have a mental illness. No, seriously, you’re a goddamn retard and everyone is sick of your brainless shit. You’re a joke account at best and I honestly doubt you personally believe the garbage you write.

You wanna stop me from selling off my personal sued copies of games? You’d have to kill me. You, Mike Capps, anyone, would have to physically kill me to stop me from doing so. I doubt any of you limp-wristed industry fucks ahve got the balsl to do so, either. Easier to scream “PIRACY!!!” and “unfair trade!” whenever your game makes 20 million instead of 25 million, rather than to admit that MAYBE you sold your game on hype than on QUALITY GAMEPLAY. Yeah, I’m sure Epic is straining to make money and that Capps is struggling to pay his electric bill every month…

And if you think I make profit this way… you’re still an idiot. I buy a game for $50-$60, get sick of it in 2 months, and sell it for $20. Yeah, I’m REALLY making money off that, you stupid bastard! But your preferred idea is that I simply toss the disc in the garbage if I get sick of it no as not to “DENY A SALE TO GREAT WONDERFUL CORPORATION!” Meanwhile, I’ll opt to sell my games off as I see fit, making what little money back that I can, since I still lose at least 66% in the process no matter what. But don’t let such logic interfere with your rampant fanboy beliefs. You don’t want FACTS to get in the way.

I rank Epic Games along with BioWare, in that I refuse to touch any game they make(Mass Effect is still the most nonsensical product ever made. 50 hours of dialog and none of it makes sense). GEARS of War? Yeah, sounds like a cheap plan to sell games to confused grandparents who think they’re buying GOD of War(a better game!)

Vince made his reply public. Go check the RWS website at gopostal.com if you don’t believe me. RWS licensed out the Unreal Engine for Postal 2… and there’s been a good deal of admittance from RWS that the Unreal Engine was a mistake as it’s buggy and prone to crashing randomly. It’s why they licensed out Source for Postal 3. Or jumped ship if you prefer.

I’d say Capps hasn’t responded to Vince yet because he ain’t got the balls. Vince would chew him up. Hell, Vince could kick the guy’s ass. Capps has media attention, not a backbone.

Oh, and seriously… Fuck You BioWare. Make a GOOD game for a change. Don’t try to pass of mediocre Sonic the Hedgehog fanfiction as a valid game EVER AGAIN!

#194

patlike
24/11/08, 3:39 pm

Ohmylol.

#195

airdom
24/11/08, 3:45 pm

Wow this is getting pretty bad.

#196

Shatner
24/11/08, 3:45 pm

Easy there Diosoth.

If you think my ‘angle’ on this is because I’m some Epic fanboy you’re clearly not paying attention to the issues at hand.

I like how you’ll take the SINGLE developer that has been quoted as saying something you like the sound of and use it to dismiss MULTIPLE developers and suggest it’s the majority view.

What a gloriously conveniently narrow minded view of the situation you have!

Playing a few games certainly makes you qualified to talk about the experiences within those games. It doesn’t make you some informed, all seeing, all knowing, potty-mouthed industry economy expert. No matter how much swearing and aggressiveness you put into expressing your opinion.

Protip: telling people to go fuck themselves (or variants thereof) tends to make them not care about what you think.

Gamers eh? Expect to be treated like royalty even though they behave like toilet-mouthed tyrants with a victim complex.

Diosoth: Take your meds, calm down and listen to some soothing Enya or something. Your blood pressure will thank you for it.

Wait, hang on.. I think I can smell morriss.. he’ll be here to say something very informative and enlightening unless he gets distracted by something shiny on his way over. :D

#197

Blerk
24/11/08, 3:47 pm

To the bunkers! Run! Run!

#198

Truk
24/11/08, 3:49 pm

Proof indeed that gaming rots minds.

#199

airdom
24/11/08, 3:56 pm

”Diosoth: Take your meds, calm down and listen to some soothing Enya or something. Your blood pressure will thank you for it.”

Listening to Enya would probably make anyone Feel all emo and want to commit suicide, its thats bad!

#200

Psychotext
24/11/08, 4:12 pm

How on earth can this still be going?

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