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Schappert: 360 has the power to run MGS4

Thursday, 16th October 2008 12:41 GMT By Patrick Garratt

metalgear25.jpg

Scooparama. MCV’s posted a quote from Xbox Live boss John Schappert saying 360 has enough grunt to handle MGS4.

“I can’t speak on behalf of Konami, but I can shed more light on the fact that we definitely have the power to run MGS4,” he said.

“I’m certainly in the fan club that would love to see Kojima-san’s masterpiece come our way,” Schappert added. “It would be wonderful to play Metal Gear Solid on the Xbox. It could become another of the many franchises that started their life on another console that are now coming our way.

“There are a lot of recent examples that are in true high-def on our platform and aren’t on PS3. We’ve got an amazing amount of horsepower and graphics power.”

This is so happening. More through the link.

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162 Comments

  1. morriss

    The Fan Club

    #1 6 years ago
  2. Gekidami

    Woah! MicroSoft says its possible?! What an unbiased opinion!

    #2 6 years ago
  3. Blerk

    They’ll probably put bloody Master Chief in there.

    #3 6 years ago
  4. morriss

    Which would instantly give the game a 9 instead of an 8.

    #4 6 years ago
  5. G1GAHURTZ

    YeAh, but u wud hav 2 run it on abaut FIFTY dVDs coz teh xbotBOX dont gotno BLU-Ray!!!!111ONE

    WHat a n00b.

    XboX only gud enughf for Gaylo!!!!

    ROFLCOPTER!

    #5 6 years ago
  6. Roybott

    G1GAHURTZ: Was that post meant to be ironic? or serious? or other? ^o)

    #6 6 years ago
  7. patlike

    I don’t know why people think this could never happen. I find it a bit baffling, really.

    #7 6 years ago
  8. Doomsayer

    Hey Giga,

    guess the thingie with the 50 dvds depends. The could also deliever MGS the Movie on 2 DVDs and the game itself on 1 CDROM ;)

    Cheers ya silly sally

    #8 6 years ago
  9. G1GAHURTZ

    “Was that post meant to be ironic? or serious? or other? ^o)”

    pft!

    n00b!

    #9 6 years ago
  10. Doomsayer

    Maybe the main reason for MS to have hdd installs with NXE was to get MGS4 on the hdd. Now i can see clear…

    #10 6 years ago
  11. Tonka

    Konami already confirmed this ages ago.

    #11 6 years ago
  12. bxsentinel

    well with compression technolgy always improving it could be done on maybe 3 or 4 dics, i hardly think 50 is a realistic number there! plus i dont see any xbox owner so lazy they would mind getting up to change there game discs every several hours. but let the fanboys continue about why this game shouldnt be ported; one day they will run out of excuses….

    #12 6 years ago
  13. No_PUDding

    I am looking forward to the difficult porting process. And the fact they haven’t actually talked to MS says a lot about this rumour.

    And the fact Schappert says it can be done on the 360 means it’s true? I am sure he knows everything about how MGS4 works.

    #13 6 years ago
  14. Doomsayer

    Whats so difficult about porting a game which runs at 1024 x 768 to the 360? Many other MGS´s did make it to other systems. So why not this one?

    #14 6 years ago
  15. Psychotext

    Schappert is a fucking liar. I was told this was only possible using the power of the Cell Broadband Engine™ and RSX™ in the PLAYSTATION®3.

    #15 6 years ago
  16. No_PUDding

    Becuase this time it’s like porting one from the Xbox to the PS2.

    I am sure it will be done, but I am sure comparison vids won’t be as pretty.

    #16 6 years ago
  17. Shatner

    This is obviously a biased opinion.

    I want to know what impartial people like Larry Hryb, Aaron Greenberg and that quiet Ballmer chap think about this.

    Oh, and let’s not forget: Halo can run on a DS :)

    #17 6 years ago
  18. Psychotext

    :D

    #18 6 years ago
  19. Doomsayer

    I actually own and love MGS4 but beside the awesome videos in there i couldnt see anything that cant be done on the 360 as well. But i guess we will see. Strange thing is that most multiplatform titles look better on the 360 ;)

    #19 6 years ago
  20. No_PUDding

    Doomsayer, that’s actually true.

    All I think would be difficult is the graphics.

    The multiplatfform argument is all down to lead platform and gettign to grips with the ridiculously bad PS3 architecture.

    #20 6 years ago
  21. Psychotext

    Outside of the cutscenes MGS4 is hardly a graphical powerhouse.

    #21 6 years ago
  22. No_PUDding

    What… And Gears is?

    #22 6 years ago
  23. Blerk

    Who said anything about Gears? :-D

    #23 6 years ago
  24. Psychotext

    You’re losing it Pud. Keep it together man!

    #24 6 years ago
  25. No_PUDding

    Me.. Just then!

    Having played both MGS4 and Gears, animations are more realistic on Gears, but just looks wise, MGS4 is in another league.

    For exmaple the cutscenes are real time, and using the same models for background and charcters.

    #25 6 years ago
  26. morriss

    Videogame comparisons: Braid is better than LBP, Motorstorm is better than Forza 2.

    #26 6 years ago
  27. Psychotext

    You shut your filthy mouth morriss!

    #27 6 years ago
  28. Quiiick

    @ bxsentinel
    “but let the fanboys continue about why this game shouldnt be ported; one day they will run out of excuses …”

    There are other than technical reasons why MGS4 SHOULD not be ported to any other platform. It’s called “identity of a platform”. A lot of people relate to PS3 because of it being home to games like MGS4. It’s a matter of style.

    Unfortunately this IP does not belong to Sony (but didn’t they fund the development?). And because of the amount of money Small-Wave (Konami) has put into MGS4 it eventually WILL be ported to the 360. Sad but unavoidable …

    #28 6 years ago
  29. No_PUDding

    Haha.

    Weird cus you’re wrong on both counts.

    #29 6 years ago
  30. No_PUDding

    @Quiiick

    What?

    #30 6 years ago
  31. Smartypants

    What?

    #31 6 years ago
  32. deftangel

    It’s not going to be the graphics that’s an issue per se. It’s more likely the streaming of the environments and the animation data for all of those cutscenes. Such feats can be done on 360 (see Gears and GTA:IV) but as Kojima knew he was working with Blu-Ray and a guaranteed HDD I would wager their implementation is very heavily dependent on those two things. It’s a significant re-architecturing job to be done and I wouldn’t be suprised to see it require the HDD and span multiple discs.

    But of course, it can be done and the potential 360 userbase in the US probably justifies the cost.

    #32 6 years ago
  33. Shatner

    Fascinating stuff.
    Especially the anim count. Puts that “Lara has 2000 animations” into perspective.

    2000 animations for a central character (that can jump!) is not as huge a number as one might think.

    Oh, I still maintain the trickiest bit of the conversion will be licensing issues regarding the Act 4 flashback sequence.

    #33 6 years ago
  34. Psychotext

    Good link.

    #34 6 years ago
  35. bxsentinel

    @ quiiick

    well first the comment about style dosent hold to much weight there. i have personally owned every sony system since the ps1 and have never worried about the games going multiplatform, its good for the business as a whole.
    plus show me where exactly has sony funded this game cause i must have missed that one!

    #35 6 years ago
  36. Quiiick

    @ bxsentinel
    I just asked a question about the funding? Pftt!
    I have no idea if they did!

    And no: Exlcusives DO matter a lot for a platform-holder!
    And MGS4 would be no exception in this respect!

    #36 6 years ago
  37. airdom

    just in reply to no.pudding, gears uses real time cutscenes also man..just sayin’!

    #37 6 years ago
  38. bxsentinel

    @ quiiick

    so let me see u mean to tell me that if all of a sudden the mgs series and every other popular brand were to go multi platform you would stop buying a sony system based on that ? hmm i sure wouldnt, games are not the only reason u should support a system, there are things like reliability and good customer support or do those things escape you????

    #38 6 years ago
  39. G1GAHURTZ

    Yeah…!

    Exclusives are only important until they go mulit-platform.

    Then all of a sudden they become ‘just another game that’s done all it can.’

    #39 6 years ago
  40. Quiiick

    @ bxsentinel
    God, you really are a pain in the ass.
    All I’m saying is that EXCLUSIVES constitute the identity of a platform.

    #40 6 years ago
  41. Psychotext

    RAAAAAAAAR!

    #41 6 years ago
  42. Blerk

    Why do you think it’s sad that MGS4 could be ported to the 360, Quiick?

    #42 6 years ago
  43. G1GAHURTZ

    cos he’s a playa hayta!

    #43 6 years ago
  44. mortiferus

    “There are a lot of recent examples that are in true high-def on our platform and aren’t on PS3. We’ve got an amazing amount of horsepower and graphics power.”

    True that! and Yup, you know it’s coming. Multiple discs but its coming.

    #44 6 years ago
  45. Quiiick

    @ Blerk
    It’s nothing personal.
    As I sad, it’s sad because the PS3 will loose part of it’s identity when MGS migrates to the 360.
    Would be the same thing, if Gears of War was on PS3. This would diminish the identity of the 360.
    Platform-holder NEED exclusive blockbusters to form their image.

    #45 6 years ago
  46. Blerk

    Do consoles need an image, though? Is it even desirable? I like my consoles to have a bit of everything. I don’t really want to buy one console for one kind of game and another for something different. They are only a means to an end, after all.

    #46 6 years ago
  47. bxsentinel

    @ quiiick

    dont take it personel its all in fun dude; these rooms would get dry if people dont disagree. lol

    #47 6 years ago
  48. Quiiick

    @ G1GAHURTZ
    I don’t get it!
    “Playa” means “beach” in spanish and the other word I don’t understand!

    #48 6 years ago
  49. Shatner

    You know, apart from MGS3, MGS has never been a platform exclusive.

    MGS3 was fucking awesome.

    #49 6 years ago
  50. Quiiick

    @ Blerk
    An image/identity of a company/product does not necessarily have to be narrowed down to be successful. It can be quite varied.

    #50 6 years ago
  51. G1GAHURTZ

    lol. It means that when you see someone else getting some success you get filled with hatred and envy!

    Don’t worry, I was only jokin’ anyway geezer.

    #51 6 years ago
  52. Psychotext

    Why do people care about the image their console has. Do you need it to impress your homiez and bitches?

    No, you need it to play games on. As long as it has the games you want to play, why care?

    #52 6 years ago
  53. No_PUDding

    Becuase apparently some of us like the industry side Psychotext ;)

    Was that low?

    Anyway, I am actually lookign forward to seeing the first pictures of the 360 version, becuase as of yet, NO exclusive has looked as good as the PS3 ones.

    And all the multiplatforms that look better on the 360, were the lead on the 360.

    That’s my justification for ‘interest’ the whole situation.

    #53 6 years ago
  54. Psychotext

    But why would you care? It shouldn’t matter to you if your chosen console wins or loses… none of them are going to lose any support at this stage of the game. Being interested is something else entirely.

    Other than that, keep beating that drum Pud. :)

    #54 6 years ago
  55. No_PUDding

    I will while you’re beating yours my fellow delusional.

    #55 6 years ago
  56. Psychotext

    That’s funny, I could have sworn I was saying that the 360 wasn’t more powerful than the PS3 just yesterday.

    Stay off the weed, it’s making you paranoid.

    #56 6 years ago
  57. No_PUDding

    That’s funny becuase I swear you said you didn’t care yesterday and I am sure I said, I had no clue technically.

    Can weed make you forget things too?

    EDIT: Do you know what, I am sorry, I basically asking for an argument.

    And at the moment I don’t really have time for one, but you know I like one as much as the next guy.

    Anyway, let’s see what the port turns out like.

    #57 6 years ago
  58. Psychotext

    What are you mumbling about? You’ll need to be more clear with your points. Maybe have a nap or something and come back when you’re not so sleepy?

    #58 6 years ago
  59. Blerk

    We’re still claiming that the PS3 is some kind of graphical powerhouse compared to the 360? :-D

    There’s next-to no difference. Really. There isn’t. See that 360 game? The PS3 can do it nearly the same. See that PS3 game? The 360 can do it nearly the same.

    They are the same. But different. Slightly.

    #59 6 years ago
  60. No_PUDding

    As I said in the edit.

    Lovely fallacy though xD

    #60 6 years ago
  61. Psychotext

    :)

    #61 6 years ago
  62. Blerk

    This thread isn’t making any sense any more. :mrgreen:

    #62 6 years ago
  63. Shatner

    Psychotext, you express much interest in industry movement, influences, facts and figures. Why should you find it so disagreeable that others might.

    Hell, some other people have a very good reason to look at things from such a perspective. No just mere ‘interest’.

    #63 6 years ago
  64. No_PUDding

    Blerk major PS3 exclsuive goes to 360 comment section would never make much sense.

    I remember when FFXIII when multiplat. People were saying how SE wouldn’t be taken seriously anymore, becuase it’s dishonorable and that doesn’t happen in Japan.

    xD

    I’d say there’s more sense in this comment section than that.

    #64 6 years ago
  65. Psychotext

    Shatner: I’m baiting people. What’s new?

    #65 6 years ago
  66. Blerk

    The thing you have to remember is that people are really, really stupid. :-)

    #66 6 years ago
  67. Quiiick

    … and you’re obviously not one of them!? ;)

    #67 6 years ago
  68. Blerk

    No, I’m not a person.

    #68 6 years ago
  69. G1GAHURTZ

    I was playing Mario Vs Sonic Olympic games on the DS the other day.

    When I was younger, That was about as impossible as Bin Laden and Bush having a quick cup of tea together in Buckingham Palace!

    I don’t think anyone cares now though.

    See the similitude there?

    hmm??

    Do ya???

    #69 6 years ago
  70. No_PUDding

    Nope.

    #70 6 years ago
  71. Quiiick

    Sure! It’s like not only having Master Chief but also being able to play as Solid Snake in Fable 2 …

    #71 6 years ago
  72. Psychotext

    Or in Super Smash Bros… Remember, the Metal Gear series started on a Microsoft platform boys and girls. :P

    #72 6 years ago
  73. No_PUDding

    I don’t think the MGS series did though.

    Do you mean it started on PC?

    #73 6 years ago
  74. Blerk

    Metal Gear started life on the MSX.

    #74 6 years ago
  75. Psychotext

    No, I was talking about the MSX. MGS started on Playstation and was ported to the PC later.

    #75 6 years ago
  76. No_PUDding

    :O

    SNAP!

    Awesome awesome fact. Will use for shock tactics.

    #76 6 years ago
  77. cachucha

    probably 4 DL discs as much, if they compress stuff, 3 or 2.

    #77 6 years ago
  78. David

    The reason MGS4 fits on the Blu ray disc is because they use basically no compress whatsoever.

    If MGS4 used standard compression systems which other games use MGS4 would probably fit easily on 1 to 2 discs. You might argue that its got long cut scenes……..The cut scenes use the game engine Half-Life 2 uses its game engine to provide the cut scenes in that.

    In game cut scenes are hardly a memory hog. Anyway this game is easily possibly 3 discs at the most. Anyone that says otherwise is deluded into thinking blu ray is awesome.

    Need I remind you the reason it has to fill up all that space on the disc is so it solves the slow reading time the Blu ray has. Not to mention the on top of that it has to install data as well to help with that problem as well.

    Simple fact is blu ray has never been needed for a HD gaming experience. Both the pc and 360 have proven that.

    #78 6 years ago
  79. Esha

    Oh dear, Gigs is broken now. I don’t know if all the King’s Horses and all the King’s Men will be able to do much about that, no matter how much super-glue they have.

    Anyway, despite being in Sony’s stable, I’ve always been a proponent of this being quite possible. The only things to consider are…

    1. Comparison videos won’t be pretty, Hideo wasn’t bragging about his super-large textures for nothing.

    2. It’ll only happen if Konami wants it to happen, the thoughts of anyone else on the matter be damned.

    3. Kojima won’t be working on the port, and it’s usually his psychologically unbalanced attachment to the brand that upholds said brand’s quality. I’m just saying. The point being is that I don’t know whether Konami is going to be brave enough to do a port without having Kojima looking over their shoulders.

    Kojima’s already working on a new project, and frankly… I’m happy to let the X-Box owners have MGS4. It’s a great game, and it deserves to be played by anyone who can get their hands on it.

    #79 6 years ago
  80. G1GAHURTZ

    Just what you trying to say Esha??

    lol.

    Anyway the point I was making was that there’s no point spending time and energy worrying about a consoles’ ‘image’ and/or what games define what console.

    People used to argue about Mario and Sonic all the time.

    Nintendo versus Sega…

    In-depth quality versus fast paced action.

    Now look… They’re in the very same game.

    Mario and Sonic used to symbolise the battle that existed between Nintendo and Sega, but now they’re in the same game, just like Sony and MS will probably end up colaborating on a game or console at some point in the future.

    It is business after all.

    I mean, just look at the guys at UK Resistance!

    They got into that old fanboy war ages ago, and they haven’t been able to get out since! lol.

    The point is that you get much more out of each console generation if you just focus on the games that you want to play, rather than worrying or getting sad about the ‘image’ of a console.

    That’s the job of some extremely well paid people, so leave it to them.

    #80 6 years ago
  81. Shatner

    Something tells me David has never ever programmed a modern videogame.

    If you think compression is all about data on a disc then you’re quite, quite mistaken.

    People like David are the problem this culture has. Spouting any old shite to support whatever view he has when he clearly has no understanding of modern game development beyond whatever he makes up in his head.

    To speak with ANY authority on a published game and how it was made you’ll need to have been involved in its development. Fanboys and idiots spouting ‘insider’ knowledge that doesn’t even get shared within the industry just so they can sound high and mighty the goddamn internet.

    I very much doubt David here can even get his head around the PUBLISHED developer information on MGS4 even if he could find a link to it.

    “no compress whatsoever”

    That statement is undeniable proof you haven’t the faintest idea of one of the core principles of programming.

    Stop being such a plank.

    Or, for entertainment value, let’s see you give some substance and proof (that’s proof – not opinion or anecdotal evidence) of your wonderful inside-the-development-of-MGS4 knowledge.

    /grabs popcorn

    For what it’s worth, I don’t really give shit about the game that such claims are made against. It just fucks me off no end the outright ridiculous waffling bullshit some morons will spew so that they can convince someone their bias is actually based on fact.

    Playing lots of games + bias + internet ≠ game developer

    And I wouldn’t be surprised if folks like David had some trouble understanding that equation.

    #81 6 years ago
  82. Psychotext

    /steals popcorn and sprints out of thread

    #82 6 years ago
  83. Hunam

    Little bit condescending there Shatner? He might not know the technical aspects of the whole process but never the less his conclusion is valid.

    #83 6 years ago
  84. Shatner

    Esha, according to Kojima at TGS, he expects his responsibilities with MGO to occupy him for the next year. No clear mention of any new project has been forthcoming.

    #84 6 years ago
  85. Shatner

    His reasoning is 100% a-grade bullshit. I’m only a fraction as condescending as morons like that deserve. He’s making shit up based on zero knowledge and 100% bias.

    “no compress whatsoever”

    All data is compressed. It doesn’t matter if it’s for MGS4 or for Halflife 2. It doesn’t matter if it’s for the PS3 or 360 or even the sodding DS!

    Here’s a big fucking clue: DATA ISN’T PROCESSED FROM THE STORAGE MEDIUM

    Jesus people. Some of you really need to stop talking out of your assholes.

    “In game cut scenes are hardly a memory hog”

    Yup. Because unique assets typically used for a single instance are VERY efficient! No memory cost there!

    I look forward to seeing David’s examples of memory structure of today’s consoles and, in particular, his per-cycle detailing of memory management.

    /pops more corn

    #85 6 years ago
  86. Hunam

    Chill out maybe? He wasn’t baiting nearly as much as tards do. Sure he was wrong, but he wasn’t being aggressive or abusive, you are reacting as if it was like a personal attack or something.

    In this crazy world not everyone isn’t as knowledgeable as you claim to be (again, not an attack, I have no idea of your credentials) but they still have an opinion and are free to express it. If you know better, explain and educate instead of attack and belittle. Or not, just a thought, who am I to tell you what to do.

    #86 6 years ago
  87. David

    @shatner: Someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed.

    Regardless of me not know how everything works any game is possible on any system. PC, 360 or otherwise. I don’t have anything against PS3 but I don’t accept the arguement that MGS4 uses blu ray as the reason it wouldn’t be possible on other consoles or PC.

    I didn’t go out of my way to insult anyone and to be honest your comments are a bit harsh.

    Yes I don’t understand all the technically information.

    Edit: On my compression comment I meant the textures, audio and video which are all high end with no compression. Not that actually game engine or how it runs the data.

    I can’t be bothered really going into it any more than I have. You’re an asshole who just picked on me to make yourself feel important.

    Whats the matter life not treating you well enough something missing ?

    I might not know everything and I might not be always right but at least I’m not a egotistically wanker like you.

    #87 6 years ago
  88. No_PUDding

    Okay…
    What the fuck is this comment section still doing open.

    Lets just wait for the port to be officially going ahead (or alternatively some screenshots released) before we argue comparatively.

    Let this shithole die.

    #88 6 years ago
  89. David

    “Let this shithole die.”

    We can only hope shatner goes peacefully

    #89 6 years ago
  90. No_PUDding

    Lol @ you interpretting my statement totally wrong; now please, stop being as provocatively assy as Shatner is.

    #90 6 years ago
  91. Hunam

    That’s it, I’m turning this car around and no one goes to disney world.

    #91 6 years ago
  92. David

    “Lol @ you interpretting my statement totally wrong; now please, stop being as provocatively assy as Shatner is.”

    Just having a joke…….Sorry if I’m coming off ass I’m just a bit pissed off.

    #92 6 years ago
  93. Shatner

    “Yes I don’t understand all the technically information.

    Edit: On my compression comment I meant the textures, audio and video which are all high end with no compression. Not that actually game engine or how it runs the data. “

    David, your first statement is true, your second statement is complete and utter bollocks.

    Or do you think that it’s sensible to spend precious memory and cpu resources into taking allegedly uncompressed data off a storage medium and then compressing it in memory before processing it?

    Hahah. What am I asking. Of course you don’t think. Silly me.

    Please stop spewing lies and guesswork as something you believe are ‘facts’. You don’t have the first clue about what you’re talking about. People in my position find the existence of people like you offensive. You lower the understanding of the culture as a whole by spreading misinformation and lies.

    #93 6 years ago
  94. G1GAHURTZ

    I think the messenger is well and truly dead now Shatner.

    The guy clearly heard it from somewhere else and interpreted it in his own way.

    but who could be responsible for initiating this twisted lie…?

    I think that they are more in need of your ferocious rage!

    ROOOOOAAAAARRRRRR!!!!!!!

    #94 6 years ago
  95. Shatner

    Seriously, this is me on a good day. You haven’t seen me truly angry yet.

    Still, one a week. Good going. M3nac3 last week, David this week.

    Next week: morriss

    #95 6 years ago
  96. Psychotext

    We’ve seen you truly angry before though. It took a week of polish to get your teeth marks out of the vg247 server. :(

    #96 6 years ago
  97. David

    @Shatner: People like me ? What the hell you on. You’re not some godly saint that knows every last thing about the world of video games.

    If you’re so knowledgeable show me a detailed report on what is the reason behind MGS4 using up 50gb’s of data.

    The only thing it could be is the Audio, video and Texture files.

    If I’m no misinformed stop talking bullshit attacking me and actually show me proof of what is taking up most of that space.

    You attack me yet provide no real links to why MGS4 takes up 50gb’s. Seriously you can attack my comments all you want but you haven’t listed anything of substance. Just pulled out crap from your ass to make it seem like I’m the one in the wrong.

    Fuck sake MGS4 has been reported that the game is largely uncompressed.

    So prove me wrong. Tell me the game is compressed show me proof that it is. Even though most places I’ve read said otherwise.

    My point the only reason the game takes up so much room is the Audio files and textures which were largely left uncompressed more so the Audio files.

    Have you ever recorded audio with the largest quality ?
    Fuck sake its not science.

    Anyway I’m a bit tired of you now your not worth my time.

    #97 6 years ago
  98. DrDamn

    I’m with Shatner on this one. If you don’t understand the technical details then maybe it’s best not trying to use them on a public forum to justifyyour argument.

    #98 6 years ago
  99. Blerk

    But surely that’s what the internet is all about? :-D

    #99 6 years ago
  100. David

    But I am not talking about the technical details heck I wasn’t even talking about the game or how it handles data.

    I was talking about the reason why it takes up so much room on the blu ray.

    Its been reported that the games texture and audio are largely uncompressed on the disc.

    Can you give me a reason why it takes up 50gb’s ? Other than uncompressed audio and high end textures.

    #100 6 years ago
  101. Shatner

    Yes David: people like you. People who spout absolute technical nonsense at others to support your argument/bias when, in fact, it’s vacuous waffle.

    “The only thing it could be is the audio, video and texture files”

    Um. Yes. Because things like normals, specular, navmeshes and thousands of other things you clearly have no notion of simply don’t exist so can’t possibly need space on the storage medium!

    I don’t need to go into ANY detail on MGS4 because the bigger picture is that your claims against ONE GAME don’t actually apply to ANY game.

    This isn’t even about MGS4. It’s about morons who blather on the internet making up (what they think) are sound technical statement when they’re absolute bullshit.

    ALL DATA IS COMPRESSED

    You clearly have no understanding of why this is necessary or has been common practice for decades because you’re too invested in blathering on about why Blu Ray isn’t important to actually have any sort of bead on the most basic understanding of data processing.

    You’re the one that’s made the fantastical claims David. You show me how YOUR claims are factual. I’ve already asked this of you so, before you get all uppity, let’s see you respond to my questions first instead of expecting someone like me to believe the ravings of some internet fanboy.

    “Anyway I’m a bit tired of you now your not worth my time.”

    Sure. You do that.

    Oh – here’s some fun for the observers: go and find out how much data 9 hours of uncompressed (remember: NOTHING IS COMPRESSED!!!!) 5 channel PCM audio data amounts to.

    After that, add roughly 5,000 (I’m being very conservative here) 2 second foley effects (because footsteps, guns firing, explosions: they’re all sound too!) in the same format.

    Don’t forget that everything needs to be covered in 5 channels!

    If you can’t be bothered to do that, just go around the internet making bullshit claims about data on storage mediums and hope there’s nobody around that might ask you to back up your silly statements. And when you get backed into a corner just scamper away saying how you’re “tired” of the person asking the questions and act indignant.

    Oh, and another thing David won’t have factored will be LODding – which, by necessity, will duplicate much visual data 2 or possibly 3 times over.

    #101 6 years ago
  102. DrDamn

    @David
    You said yourself that the Bluray drive is a bit slow – though the issue is more seek speed. So why would they have all the textures uncompressed and make the problem worse? Think about it.

    Your main point that the 360 is capable of doing the game is fine – dressing up your argument with nonsense detracts from that.

    One final point – you made the “uncompressed” claim in the first place so I would say the onus is on you to back it up.

    #102 6 years ago
  103. DrDamn

    Alternatively … http://ps3.qj.net/Hideo-Kojima-Blu-ray-doesn-t-have-enough-space-for-Metal-Gear-Solid-4/pg/49/aid/114921

    “In an interview, Kojima explained that his team had to compress many elements of Metal Gear Solid 4 to make it fit in the disc. While they managed to squeeze the game into Blu-ray, Kojima said the quality could have been better if there was more capacity to work with.”

    #103 6 years ago
  104. Psychotext

    Took me a couple of mins… but assuming it used the maximum bitrate available, 9 hours of 8 channel LPCM would take up:

    6.144 Mbps * 60 * 60 * 9 = 199065 Mb / 8 = 24.88GB.

    Given the actual size of the data on the MGS4 disc (30GB) I don’t think this is the case. :)

    #104 6 years ago
  105. Blerk

    Leaving everything uncompressed would be pointless because you’d never fit everything you needed into memory, meaning you’d have to then compress it during loading. Pointless.

    I seem to remember there was some talk of PS3 games including the same assets multiple times on a disc in order to reduce Blu-Ray seek times, though. Is there any truth in that?

    #105 6 years ago
  106. David

    @DrDamn:

    Doubling the data on the BD is one way of helping with the slow read speed but installs are also another. Thats why MGS4 has so many of them its to help with the reading speed of the Blu-Ray.

    Anyway I still think the game is easily possible on the 360 especially now that is has the HDD game install feature coming with the NXE.

    #106 6 years ago
  107. Shatner

    OK good, Psychtext. So that’s roughly half the entire capacity gone just for cutscene audio.

    Now, how about the 5,000 foley effects (for what it’s worth, 10,000 audio effects are pretty standard for a typical game today)

    And then hazard a guess, to the closest 10,000, how many unique graphical assets there are in the game (assets, by the way, are more than just geometry and textures – but for the sake of David, we’ll just assume minor things like collision maps and lightmaps and animation data don’t matter as games like MGS don’t have lighting, collision or animation) and multiply that with another guess as to how much data (uncompressed!) each one takes to store (character faces will generally have a much higher definition and subsequent filesize than, for example, the underside of a boot – but, again, we’ll let that slide). Then double the outcome of the guess to cover 3 levels of graphical LODding and let me know what you come out with.

    Oh, don’t forget some game code needs to go in there somewhere to. For both MGS and MGO. Let’s not forget too that MGO will have plenty of its own unique audio and visual assets too! All uncompressed, mind you.

    #107 6 years ago
  108. Psychotext

    Are you asking me? I wasn’t arguing with you. :P

    #108 6 years ago
  109. Psychotext

    Oh… and just because I have the info at hand:

    MGS4 ISO (inc padding / duplication): 46.6GB
    MGS4 Data Size (inc audio): 29.9GB (2.7GB of that for MGO)
    MGS4 Audio: 5.1ch Dolby Digital (1/4 of data on disc)

    #109 6 years ago
  110. David

    So it does duplicate data on the disc ?

    #110 6 years ago
  111. Shatner

    Blerk makes an astoundingly practical observation that I alluded to a while back:

    “Leaving everything uncompressed would be pointless because you’d never fit everything you needed into memory, meaning you’d have to then compress it during loading. Pointless.”

    As for doubling up data to combat seek times or to use installs – yes, those are two solutions.

    A more sensible method (and one commonly practiced – or should be – for all disc-based media) is to lay the data out intelligently on the disc. For example, putting all the assets for level 1 of a game in the same physical area of the disc will alleviate seek times compared to having all visual assets at one end of the disc and all audio assets at another. Streaming data (Such as FMV that isn’t so dependent on data transfer rates) make more sense to be placed as far out from the center of the disc as possible. It’s usually only sought once per lengthy play session and the data will naturally be read sequentially. You put your most fragmented data closest to the center of the disk where seek times will be less conspicuous due because you’re covering a smaller physical area.

    It makes most sense to use as many of these measures as possible. Usage of one doesn’t necessarily exclude usage of another.

    #111 6 years ago
  112. Shatner

    “So it does duplicate data on the disc ?”

    You don’t know the answer??!?

    David, I’m shocked. You spoke as though you were an authority on how MGS4 data was dealt with on a Blu Ray. :o

    And looking at Psychotext’s figures – are you still going to claim the data wasn’t compressed????

    #112 6 years ago
  113. David

    I wasn’t though you just took it that way.

    Edit: If the game doubles up on data then why did kojima say that he needed more space.

    :/ call me confused but if the games total size is onl 29gbs his statement doesn’t make sense.

    #113 6 years ago
  114. Psychotext

    He really did need more space if he wanted to use uncompressed audio as he originally spoke about. :D

    (On an related note, the amount of people that still think MGS4 uses uncompressed audio is staggering)

    #114 6 years ago
  115. Shatner

    “The only thing it could be is the Audio, video and Texture files”

    Yup, David. You’re right. That’s in no way presented as an authoritative statement.
    :D

    #115 6 years ago
  116. Psychotext

    You’ve proven your point Shatner. At this stage you’re just being malicious.

    #116 6 years ago
  117. David

    Thats actually good to know

    so if the total size is 29gbs then basically a maximum of 3 to 4 dvd 9gb discs

    #117 6 years ago
  118. Shatner

    Yup.

    Shatner takes no prisoners.

    Shatner talks in the third person.

    #118 6 years ago
  119. Shatner

    LOL David!

    Tell me: how much data can you fit onto a DVD9 for use with a 360.

    The bit in italics is important.

    #119 6 years ago
  120. Psychotext

    Oh no… what have you done David? What have you done?

    #120 6 years ago
  121. Blerk

    Medic!

    #121 6 years ago
  122. Shatner

    Ho ho. Facts are fun. Bullshit faux ‘knowledge’ is merely funny.

    Anyway, I’m surprised. I thought David was tired with me.

    Just out of interest David, is your surname “Hayter”?

    #122 6 years ago
  123. G1GAHURTZ

    C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER!!!!

    #123 6 years ago
  124. David

    :/ what exactly was it that I said wrong. dvd9 can hold up to 8.5gbs but in general 7.5gbs. I was just suprised of the actual size of the game stated by Psycho.

    #124 6 years ago
  125. Psychotext

    Before Shatner jumps all over you… the usable data space on a 360 dual layer DVD is 6.8GB.

    #125 6 years ago
  126. JonFE

    If Konami do decide to port MGS4 to the x360, they can easily negotiate a licensing deal with Microsoft and release it on 5 disks, one for each act, which seems somehow convenient, as the game already requires an installation between acts and that could be substituted by a disk swap.

    Now, can we drop it please?

    #126 6 years ago
  127. Hunam

    Shatner makes me lose faith in the human race.

    #127 6 years ago
  128. Blerk

    I wonder how they’d handle the packaging on a five-disc game? :-)

    #128 6 years ago
  129. JonFE

    Hopefully without any scratched disks Blerk ;)

    #129 6 years ago
  130. David

    probably something simaler to the lost odyssey dvd case

    #130 6 years ago
  131. Psychotext

    I still say it’s probably not happening anyway. Maybe for MGS4: AddedName.

    As for packaging, there’s some quite good multidisc DVD packs out there. But expect MS to splash out and go for a 2x holder with 3x cardboard sleeves. :D

    #131 6 years ago
  132. Shatner

    Psycho, you’re such a DVD9 spoilsport. :P

    All those DVDs and all those additional fees that the publisher will have to pay Microsoft for (ID didn’t seem too thrilled about it). It’s clearly a ‘no brainer’ !!

    Hunam, a preference for facts over nonsense is actually a good thing and the human race, as a whole, has done quite well of it.

    #132 6 years ago
  133. Blerk

    I’m sure Microsoft would quite happily bow down and waive those fees if they got “PS£LOL” bragging rights out of it. :-)

    iD only bitched about them to try and generate the same effect. And it’ll probably work.

    #133 6 years ago
  134. Hunam

    Well, if you represent the people in the know, then I’d rather be thick than treat other people the way you feel is acceptable because you know a little more.

    #134 6 years ago
  135. Shatner

    Hmm. Platform holders make their money from third party software through the per-unit licence fee they collect from the publisher.

    I’d have thought that the greater the potential revenue due to units manufactured the less likely they are to waive the fee.

    I know bragging rights are the most precious commodity on the internet, but in business I think they prefer $$$

    #135 6 years ago
  136. Shatner

    Hunam, I know a lot more. And if some twerp is going to spew bullshit at me and call me names when I know he’s talking complete gibberish and acting like a clown then I’ll treat him like a gibbering clown.

    If I’m wrong about something I’ll apologise. Which is more than our friend David has managed to do.

    I’m firm but fair. I don’t see why I should treat rude, idiotic, ignorant fanboys with any respect.

    I make no apologies for being right.

    #136 6 years ago
  137. Psychotext

    Per unit licence fee… not per disc though. Plus there’s still some confusion over whether id had the right end of the stick because they’ve since said they were wrong about it and retracted their comments.

    They’re obviously not going to waive the standard licence fee (as you say, it’s how they make money). But if this extra fee per disc exists, they’d be sure enough to ignore that.

    #137 6 years ago
  138. David

    @shatner:I called you names ? your first reply to me pretty much called me everything under the son.

    why should I apologise to you when you’re the one with the problem not me.

    #138 6 years ago
  139. Shatner

    Psyhcotext, I specified the licence fee (which is built upon a number of factors releating to distribution and manufacturing costs – such as number of discs (it costs more to manufacture a 5 disc game than it does a 1 disc game)) on a per-unit basis because the fee is paid up front based on the order the publisher gives the manufacturer (Microsoft/Nintendo/Sony) and not based on how many units are sold on the market.

    David, you’re full of it. You’ve been shown to be full of bullshit (not just from me but from others) and now you’re going to whimper around trying to act like some mauled victim. You tried to distract from the fact that you were wrong by making snide remarks at me from your very first response.

    I see people like you feeding misinformation everywhere because your bias and favouritism eclipse your ability to think or reason or pay any attention to FACTS that don’t support your little agenda.

    There’s a huge gulf of understanding between how things are and how people THINK things are because of people like you spreading nonsensical biased ramblings around and acting like you know things when you’re just making up stuff as you go along.

    People like you do damage to this culture. I admire your passion but the way you express it is pathetic.

    But, I’m sure you’ll go around spewing more made-up bullshit when it suits you and then shrug your shoulders and act like you’re a victim the next time you’re found out about it.

    I don’t respect liars or people that deliberately spread misinformation. I can’t say I care for people that DO respect such characteristics either.

    Try bullshitting less in future and I’m sure you’ll find me a perfectly agreeable person.

    #139 6 years ago
  140. Hunam

    I’m not entirely sure if this has run in from other comments on this site, but Shatner, you threw the first punch in the thread.

    #140 6 years ago
  141. Psychotext

    Shatner: Why would the publisher use Microsoft for manufacture? This isn’t high end tech, and there are numerous duplication houses quite capable of handing 360 games. The cost to manufacture would obviously be higher for a multiple disc game, but it has nothing to do with the licence fee (unless, as previously discussed Microsoft charges more if you make use of multiple discs).

    I must admit that I’ve never had any involvement with this sort of thing though so I’m only going by what I’ve been told.

    #141 6 years ago
  142. Shatner

    I corrected misinformation. I’m offended by clowns that deliberately spread misinformation.

    People who try to lie are the ones I regard as initial offenders.

    You see it your way because it suits you. I like manners too. But I’m not going to be polite to someone that being insulting and offensive to me in the first place.

    “Throwing the first punch” is also a needlessly melodramatic term. Let’s NOT try to inject any unnecessary drama into this Hunam.

    #142 6 years ago
  143. Shatner

    Psychotext – all console games are manufactured by the platform holder, not the publisher – that’s how it’s worked since the start of consoles. There’s very few exceptions. If I recall correctly, in the mid 90′s Sony granted EA the means to manufacture their own PS1 games at their own European pressing plants. This is probably how the legendary episode of South Park ended up as a file on copies of NHL PSX :)

    At the end of development a publisher submits their code and production materials to the platform holder (M/N/S) along with all documentation, video playthroughs etc etc. M/N/Ss will check and approve all the materials (game testing/bug testing/standards checking – to make sure it looks on on a 14″ screen) and then THEY will manufacture it based on the quantities ordered by the publisher.

    If all publishers could manufacture their own retail units then they would. But then the console manufacturer would lose most of its control over the software revenue.

    In the period running up to holiday season, the manufacturing schedules get very very full indeed. A publisher can have massive problems if they miss their manufacturing slot for their game (maybe it failed standards checking and needs to be resubmitted – costing around 2 weeks time). If they miss their manufacturing slot and there’s no space available for months the game won’t be manufactured.

    In development, summertime is actually hugely busy. That’s when many Xmas games are going through crunch time because they need to be submitted around September or October time ready for the holiday season. Thanksgiving is typically the most significant retail holiday season in the west.

    You may remember, years back, that Nintendo got very very pissy at Codemasters in the US when they manufactured their own cartridges to run on the NES console. They tried to get the practice stopped as these were not ‘officially licenced’ product that was running on their machines.

    #143 6 years ago
  144. Psychotext

    Learn something new every day. Thanks. :)

    So I wonder if this really is just the inherent cost of manufacture increasing for multiple discs or there is some sort of penalty to discourage multiple disc usage.

    #144 6 years ago
  145. BraveArse

    Hunam +1

    Pat – any chance of an ignore button? I’d rather not read malicious badgering and harassment on a site of this calibre. It’d be nice to think he was just pissing in the wind rather than fuelling his own self-important wankathon. I couldn’t give a fuck who’s right here – there’s no call for Shatner’s treatment of David. It’s just fucking wrong.

    #145 6 years ago
  146. morriss

    So 360 is better than PS3? Right?

    #146 6 years ago
  147. Hunam

    ““Throwing the first punch” is also a needlessly melodramatic term. Let’s NOT try to inject any unnecessary drama into this Hunam”

    Really, this is what you are going with?

    #147 6 years ago
  148. Blerk

    All we need is to get Pud in here and the party can really start!

    #148 6 years ago
  149. Shatner

    No problem Psyhco, always happy to inform when I can. :)

    Whilst I don’t know the specifics of M/N/S’s manufacturing costs, it’s not unreasonable to assume that a multi-disc game costs more to manufacture (and box) than a single disc game.

    I can’t imagine any reason why M/N/S wouldn’t pass that cost onto the publisher.

    BraveArse:
    I could say there’s no call for ignorant people spreading misinformation and lies. In fact, there’s many calls for precisely the opposite. There’s certainly no call for liars to get offensive and aggressive when their lies and ignorance get shown to be lies and ignorance rather than the universal truths they would like their ramblings to be regarded as. Yet that’s precisely what’s happened here.

    Get on your high horses about the sanctity of being polite to liars and bullshitters. I don’t really care. It’s not like they’re an endangered species is it?

    Internet morals, so funny :)

    #149 6 years ago
  150. Shatner

    “Really, this is what you are going with?”

    Yeah. I find it’s better than evading anything that gets said by using rhetorical questions.

    #150 6 years ago
  151. No_PUDding

    Blerk I tried to let this comment section die…

    I am not getting involved. But it’s true, I’d love to be involved.

    #151 6 years ago
  152. Psychotext

    You know, I have a nasty feeling that every single one of the longest comments threads on here has either Me or Shatner involved.

    Admins… what’s the highest number of comments on an article so far?

    #152 6 years ago
  153. BraveArse

    Shatner – perhaps you should back your opinions up with credentials before you call other people liars and worse. If you develop games then say so ( and even then I’m guessing there’s /probably/ a better way to voice your opinions )- if you don’t then shut the fuck up. Regardless – there’s a difference between opinion and lies.

    Internet morals? the only difference between internet conversations and real life ones is that you’d have been punched in the face several times for saying what you did here in the “real world*”. People are people regardless of whether they’re on the internet or not. I’m guessing you’re a cunt offline too. I’d guess it was aspergers but I’m going to put a tenner on plain old sociopath for an even bet.

    *you know the one where people have jobs? Your posting rate suggests you don’t live in that one.

    #153 6 years ago
  154. Shatner

    BraveArse,

    I have very strong feelings against the notion that WHO says something makes a difference to the validity of WHAT they say.

    Personally, I see something said and it makes no difference to me who says it. Something isn’t more truthful or less truthful if uttered by one person than if it was uttered by another.

    I don’t need to justify who I am for my comments to hold any weight. If you can tear your emotive interpretations away from this and simply look at the detail of the statement given (including some from some chap who made some Metal Gear game or something) you’ll find that my statements hold a lot more water and have been far better substantiated than most others.

    Of course, I’m in a fortunate position where I don’t have to choose a side to support based on HOW something was said. In certain instances I’ve enough knowledge to KNOW whether someone is making up rubbish or not – no matter how politely or aggressively they may say it. If you’re not so well equipped than I can see how you may have to resort to picking a side by more arbitrary means.

    By all means, BraveArse, argue for internet manners as much as you like. But doing so in the form of an attack on someone you don’t know and calling them a cunt makes you nothing more than a hypocrite.

    Bit of an own-goal, don’t you think? :P

    Just so you know, I have as much of a high regard for hypocrites as I do for bullshitters.

    Have a nice day!

    #154 6 years ago
  155. reask

    I’m even more confused now having read through this thread. ;)

    #155 6 years ago
  156. BraveArse

    Shatner you gave up the right to be treated politely early on in this thread. So no – no hypocrisy here.

    “I have very strong feelings against the notion that WHO says something makes a difference to the validity of WHAT they say.”

    So because /you say/ something is a fact then it’s a fact – someone who has a different opinion is, however, a biased moronic bullshitting lying plank amongst other things gleaned from your “witty ripostes” further up this page.

    “Something tells me David has never ever programmed a modern videogame.”

    Like I say – back it up or shut up. You imply you have the knowledge – I think you’re bullshitting. And according to your logic, I guess that’s a fact because I trust my own opinions more than I do yours.

    Feel free to reply – I have gathered so far that you have an inability to leave the next comment blank. I however have added you to my mental ignore list with the many other obvious twats I have come across on the internet.

    #156 6 years ago
  157. Shatner

    “Shatner you gave up the right to be treated politely early on in this thread. So no – no hypocrisy here.”

    Where did I make demands of others to be treated politely?

    You, on the other hand, have jumped in to this, you’ve not bothered with the actual topic being discussed, you’ve just chosen a side and, in one breath, chastised me for not being polite to someone whilst, in the other breath insulted me and called me a cunt.

    That, sir, is hypocrisy.

    Based on your understanding of hypocrisy and your inability to see points proven in black and white simply because they substantiate what I happen to have said rather than the horse you chose to back, I don’t particularly feel compelled to jump through your little hoops. Based on evidence of your comments, you’ll only see what you choose to see and ignore the rest (mental ignore list – OH NOES!)

    Last time I checked, I wasn’t answerable to anonymous hypocrites, bullshitters, pirates and liars on the internet.

    I’ll tell you this for free: I know I’m right. And that’s good enough for me. If you can’t handle that then that’s your problem. :)

    I do so enjoy people who choose wilful ignorance because they either can’t accept facts that go against their guesswork and bias or because they’re not presented in the appropriate sugar coating they want.

    I’ve never really seen how declaring (wilful) ignorance is meant to be seen as a commendable debating gesture.

    And, DUH, yes, if you make a comment about me then I’m likely to reply. It’s basic social behaviour. You’re not some internet mastermind by addressing me directly and then predicting I’ll reply!

    Really, a lot of you need to stop giving yourselves so much credit for stating the obvious!

    #157 6 years ago
  158. BraveArse

    Oh I have no problem with thinking you’re a bullshitter and knowing without doubt that you’re sociopathic.

    /ends

    #158 6 years ago
  159. Shatner

    My my, you certainly practice those manners that you preach! Such flattering labels you’ll fling around!

    OK, you say I’m a bullshitter. Please disprove any of the information I have stated.

    I guess it should be easy for someone of your caliber :)

    #159 6 years ago
  160. Blerk

    Christ, is this still going? I’ve been down the pub.

    #160 6 years ago
  161. Shatner

    Whoops! I think I left my “talk down at easily excitable people on the internet” postbot script running.

    #161 6 years ago
  162. morriss

    162

    #162 6 years ago

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