Hirai – “The main premise of PS3 is video games”

You could’ve fooled me.

That’s why they updated the Blu ray/audio features of the console months before they sorted in-game XMB and stuff like that.

Surely the fact that he has to stress it is counter argument enough.

Took them quite a while to figure that out. Sony you smartass

My issue with this is:

I’ve got a 360.

I could buy a PS3 and play a handful of exclusives.

Or…

I could buy up to 10 360 games, possibly more with BOGOF offers, with the £300 that a PS3 would cost me.

Plus almost every game on the PS3 is available on the 360 anyway, with many versions even looking slightly better.

The handful of PS3 exclusives don’t contain any ‘must haves’ for me either.

Therein lies Sony’s problem as I see it.

It’s not just games that they should focus on, but ‘must have‘ exclusives.

They barely even have one.

Au contraire, they have quite a number of them if you’re bothered to find out which they are. The real problem is that they’re not really advertising them yet, and I find that baffling.

Even the small releases have been joyous, I’ve played the Valkyrie Chronicles demo I don’t know how many bleeding times, and it’s the same match over and over, but it’s such a wonderful experience that I can’t leave it alone. And it’s one unmatched, and only comparable to the likes of Shining Force. The good Shining Force games, that is… because they went all action-y.

They’re there, and to say they “barely even have one” gives me fits of giggles. It’s just that you’re unaware, Gigs, and in this case… I don’t blame you.

Sony really needs to get their marketing guys in gear.

They’d have a really hard time selling something like Valkyria even with a big advertising campaign, though. It’s purpose-built for a small audience of enthusiasts who’ll love it to bits, but you’re never going to hit the mass market with it and it certainly won’t shift any machines. Which is a shame, but that’s gaming for you.

I also do have a ps3 and a 360 .I bought the ps3 for mgs4 and the “other” exclusives. But i havent found all those great exclusives yet. Maybe esha can tell me where they are? I really hope that Killzone2 will be what i am looking for or maybe Resistance 2 but its still too quite for those games. Also where are those 14 exclusives that Sony promised for TGS? I am also really tired of watching CGI Movies instead of real gameplay (MAG / GOW3 anyone ?). But if you look at MS – they deliver one exclusive after another.

If we got less talk and more action from Sony people might start believing them.

Brand name will not be enough this gen to win it for them let alone come in second.

It’s a perception problem. When you LOOK at what is around there’s plenty to choose from. It’s like when people go about saying “PSP has no games”. Yes. If enough people just go on the observations of one or two short sighted people then, apparently, the PSP has no games. Except I appear to be drowning in fantastic PSP games all the time.

The other perception problem is that people seem to act that if a game is out on 360 and PS3 then the 360 version exists but the PS3 version doesn’t. This affords them the excuse of “no games on PS3″ but, again, the moment you actually look with your own eyes you find it’s a fallacy.

As for ‘more action, less talk’. Sony are damned both ways. If they suddenly announce something with little talk of it we get people claiming that Sony did it wrong and should have talked more about things. If they talk it up, we get people claiming they should just shut up and get the product out.

There’s a persistent lack of objectivity and consistency with many people’s claims which, more often than not, either don’t hold up to mild scrutiny or are just presented from a permanent glass-half-empty viewpoint.

WipeoutHD one week. LBP another. Yup. No good games.

Not that I’m bothered about either as Civilization Revolution has me in its vice-like grip at the moment.

The PSP / PS3 have no games thing just runs back to when they were launched and really didn’t have many games worth playing. I don’t see that many people saying it these days, but the problem they have is that with multiplatform titles generally running better on the 360 they need to get more heavyweight exclusives like LBP / Killzone to make the extra cost of their hardware worthwhile.

I really dont think thats a perception problem. Its more like most people are looking for the exclusives that really blow you away like mgs4 or gears for example. An this is where Sony really seems to loose in this generation. LBP is nice but nothing that blows me away. Same for Wipeout (which is more of a snack then a full game for my taste). I know they can do it but right now they should have more amazing exvlusives that blow me away.

Most of the people saying that there aren’t any games on the PS3 are people who own 360s and are therefore discounting every multi-platform title in the PS3′s library. If the PS3 is your only machine then there’s tons of stuff.

That said, I am disappointed with Sony’s output this generation so far. They seem to have lost that thing that the PS2 had whereby it really did have ‘something for everyone’ and a huge mountain of oddities which you wouldn’t find on any other platform.

You hit the spot there Blerk )

I agree there are many games on ps3 the problem I have is Sony thought they only had to turn up to win.

They really need to stop trying to convince themselves and others ps3 is the best thing since sliced bread.

Since it’s launch no game and I mean no game has said to me I need this console.

It is doing nothing better than 360 games wise so I just wish there was less promises about next year this is coming or the ten year plan etc. etc.

Just get the games out and show us the potential of this machine Sony promised so much about.

Then the consumer can decide which is the one with the greatest value.

I got the 360 because the ps3 had not been launched at the time.

If it had there would have been no decision to take for me as I had the ps2 and would have stayed with Sony.

Fact is I got the 360 and never looked back and I am sure there are lots like me.

Are you guys done circle jerking each other?

Ohh, the PS3 has sooo many games!
Yes, I agree, it is sooo goood!
Why how kind of you to say. It is brimful with little bundles of joy.
Yes, yes indeed. Just like that.

The PS3 has an image problem. They talked the media machine up more than the games machine. Why else would Kaz feel the need to say
“The main premise of the PS3 is video games. That’s the absolutely most important thing that we cannot lose sight of.”

You don’t see the other guys doing that. Heck, MS is spending money on saying the opposite.

The 360 has an image problem aswell. Especially with the NXE coming up.

The problem with the PS3 is that it still isn’t even slightly in full swing yet. The first party is taking a while. This fall looks to have the first good SCE lineup.

I recently tried Warhawk (demo) and my god, I bet if half of you tried it (becuase I thought it was a load of tosh too) you’d find you love it.

The other problem is that things like Gears of War; sorry to sound harsh but it’s nothing special. But the marketing campaign really makes a difference, Sony never puts that effort in, which is ridiuclous.

I hope they do it with Killzone 2, becuase that game truly is a CoD4 like game, that will draw people in.

You think the NXE will create an image problem for the 360? Or help to fix it?

The PS3 might not be in full swing, but the generation is. The PS3 is still trailing and that’s half the problem. They’re slowly catching up, but they’ve still got a number of other issues (like price, for one) that need addressing. Japan’s hi-def misfire has hurt them bad too.

What has Image to do with all this? Its about the games – and thats it.

@ No_PUDding:

Killzone 2 is a classic example of what Sony’s doing wrong.

They first announced it at E3 2005. It’s almost 2009 and still no game.

Since then, MS have managed to release GOW and Halo 3, with GOW 2 having just gone gold.

That’s THREE similar AAA exclusives in the same time frame that Sony’s used to do not much more than give us all promises and hype.

btw, rumour has it (aka industry insider talk) that Killzone 2 is nowhere near COD4 in terms of quality.

I agree, but everything HD is the Gamecube in Japan.

I think the NXE and whole casual approach is totally invading the shooterbox/hardcore space the 360 was recognisable for.

Think about the people that own 360′s and think LBP is a ‘fags game’. When they get avatars that stand like girls that you can dress up, is that going to be good for them or not?

And most of base is not built on casual, so that’s a lot of alienation.

G1GAhurtz

Rumour has it(aka closed Beta NDA breaker) that it is.

Check out the GAF thread, and see those who hint lightly.

But I agree about the time to output it, it’s RIDICULOUS. The problem was just the CG trailer though, without that, this game wouldn’t be such a joke. And Gears of War is on UE3 engine, it’s about half the effort, from building an engine from the ground-up.

I don’t believe that whole “avatars will put the hardcore off the Xbox” stuff. They might be whining now, but give them a Masterchief helmet and some emo clothes and they’ll be camping it up with the best of them within a few days of the release.

@ no pudding

MS are just trying to expand the 360 user base the hardcore is rock solid.

If you want a gaming rig 360 does what it says on the tin.

With the ps3 no one knows what Sony is trying to achieve I mean is it BR or games?

“That’s THREE similar AAA exclusives in the same time frame that Sony’s used to do not much more than give us all promises and hype.”

Well that’s one studio though, not Sony. Insomniac for example have managed Resistance, Ratchet & Clank: Future, R&C: Quest For Booty and Resistance 2, an impressive output for one studio by any yard stick.

Killzone 2 has clearly been a huge project for Sony, and contrary to G1GAHURTZ, I’ve heard pretty much blanket praise from people who are on the beta, and EDGE’s latest preview was very positive. More than that though, the recent videos of people playing the game looked excellent.

I am not gonna try to justify the PS3 to people who don’t own one and clearly aren’t in the right state of mind to accept PS3 ‘circle jerking’.

The console is antisocially expensive and will need games like KZ2 to be justifiable as a purchase.

And Blerk, I am sure you’re right it won’t totally alienate them, but it’s not quite as hardcore friendly as the blades, and Avatars are mandatory.

I can see there being a lot of moaning. Plus Rare’s character design isn’t superb at the best of times.

You can’t alienate a hardcore userbase (unless you stop releasing games). Start off with the casuals and you’ll never attract the hardcore… you can go the other way though, simply because until the machine appears on a casual’s radar they wont have paid any attention to it.

‘circle jerking’ – I’d hate to know where that phrase has it’s origin

Killzone 2 is reportedly the most expensive game development project in Europe.

But, there’s a classic case:

We’ve just had comments from people saying “Sony need to talk up their big games much more” and, in the same conversation, people who will criticise Sony for doing precisely that. And are also happy to mix and match up third-party product and blame Sony for it when they want to use as more criticism of Sony.

All we need now is for someone to throw Sony a dirty look for not telling us about the Team ICO game by now and we’ll have the a perfect damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don’t mix.

Psychotext you are well informed, and it’s ridiculous to think that a game console popularised by Halo and Gears alone with an ‘X’ in the name is destined for casual consumption.

It’s grabbing at straws, and the avatars will alienate to an extent. And no amount of Master Chief Helmets will fix that.

“You can’t alienate a hardcore userbase”

Really? Nintendo have done a stunning job so far.

Why didn’t Sony announce Team ICO game, they suck my ass!

(totally genuine actually)

@Pud: Of course they won’t. 99% of the time the 360′s on, you’re not even looking at the dashboard. Everything you could do with the blades is in the new guide in a much the same way as it was before. It’s not like there are suddenly going to be avatars running around in Halo 3.

Shatner: The Wii has a hardcore userbase? Obviously I meant on current consoles rather than those idiot followers of brands.

Pud: I didn’t actually understand that post of yours before last. (the one with my name at the front) Could you clarify?

“Killzone 2 has clearly been a huge project for Sony, and contrary to G1GAHURTZ, I’ve heard pretty much blanket praise from people who are on the beta, and EDGE’s latest preview was very positive.”

Well I could be wrong, and they could have changed a whole lot since the things that I heard, but my info comes from people working on the project.

Anyway, the game might still not come out for a good while, so there should still be plenty of time to get it up to AAA standard if it isn’t already.

As for Resistance, then does a Metacritic score of 86 equal a AAA title? (Eurogamer gave it a 6, lol)

I didn’t say “Wii” I said “Nintendo”.

“It’s grabbing at straws, and the avatars will alienate to an extent. And no amount of Master Chief Helmets will fix that.”

I’d like to meet the guy who stops playing Gears or COD4 because of an Avatar that he has the option to turn on or off.

“Eurogamer gave it a 6, lol”

More reason to think highly of it in my book

An 86 metacritic average is far from terrible anyway, and as I said, that’s just one developer at Sony. I really think Sony have great first party studios working under them.

Robo_1: Insomniac isn’t first party.

Shouldn’t it be more like ‘The PS3 is for game.’ (non-plural)?

Oh! Well you learn something new everyday, second party then? Are Naughty Dog first or second?

Insomniac arnt first party, but Sony owns nearly every IP they’ve made up to now, ND are first party.

“I’d like to meet the guy who stops playing Gears or COD4 because of an Avatar that he has the option to turn on or off.”

I am not suggesting they will outright leave, but their view of the console won’t be unchanged. And you ahve no diea how close minded some people are. LittleBigPlanet says ‘hi’, as I said, when it’s described as a babies or fags game.

“Well I could be wrong, and they could have changed a whole lot since the things that I heard, but my info comes from people working on the project.”

Yes, I am sure people within the project were down on it and spreading it all about the lesser known public.

@Psychotext I cleared the post up.

Can respond now then. Destined for casual consumption? No, of course not. Can it be appealing to casual? Of course it can be.

Halo, Gears etc wont make the slightest difference to casuals because whilst they might have heard of them, they wont be interested. Casuals see something that they like the look of (or a few things) and go for it. Look at Singstar for instance… Casuals didn’t say “Oh no, this console has God of War and Killzone on it… I couldn’t possibly buy something so hardcore”. No, they say “That looks cool, here’s my credit card”.

It’s only hardcore gamers that say things like “OMFG IM NEVER BUYIN THAT WII SHIT. FOR CASUAL FAGS ONLY INNIT!” or “LOLOLOL LITTLEBIGHOMOS! LOLOL”

On the other point… whilst the most hardcore might not like avatars, you really think they’re going to give that much of a crap as long as titles like Gears, COD etc keep flowing?

Oh, and a little clarification. I’m not talking about the nouveau casuals that the Wii appeals to (these are non gamers and something different entirely). I’m talking about the casual gamers that gave the PS2 130m sales LTD.

I really do actually.

Just hearing how adverse they can be to things like that ofcourse it could detract from their experience. They are not goign to give it up, but they will be less defensive of it for sure.

And the 360 crowd really isn’t the PS2 crowd, and neitehr is the PS3.

Late copycat introduced titles like Lips and SceneIt can’t reintroduce it to the general public with the brand identity it has..

Of course the 360 crowd isn’t the PS2 crowd. But that doesn’t stop it grabbing some of them. Brand identity is irrelevant… as long as the money is spent re-inventing the product (see NXE).

Don’t quite understand why some people think there are no games for the PS3. I have only heard of Gears of War and Fable for the xbox as being exclusive, while the PS3 has already pilfered the best game to date on the xbox Bioshock (game of the year people) and I can name no less than 10 exclusive titles that have been or will be released on the PS3 that are just outstanding.
1. Resistance
2. Uncharted: Drakes Fortune
3. Rachet and Clank: Tools of Destruction / Quest for Booty
4. Metal Gear Solid 4
5. Resistance 2
6. Socom: Confrontation
7. Little Big Planet (gay or not, game is sick)
8. Heavenly Sword
9. Killzone 2
10. God of War 3

Only one game on that list are not due out in the next 4 months and 8 of them are either out now or in the next month. I’m sure I could think of more, this is off of memory. Exactly what game on the 360 is going to be as realistic as SOCOM, boast 60 player battles like R2, or be as epic as MGS4?

If brand identity was irrelevant there wouldn’t be a term for it.

It’s relevant to every brand.

It’s irrelevant because brands can be re-invented… and again, casuals pay very little attention to the PS3 and 360 right now. Get in their mindspace and you’ve pretty much a fresh start to build your identity.

Not that I think either Sony or Microsoft are willing to spend the money to do it, but that’s another story.